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CoolChick
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Unread post by CoolChick on

Because they do not have the right to abuse our rights. It's that simple. By law (not statute as statutes are NOT laws) we are NOT obliged to do anything that interferes with our rights and freedoms. We cannot be forced to sign or agree to anything. Signing is a voluntary movement of ours.....we do not have to do it. Also, you need to remember that we the people have to consent to being governed and we can withdraw our consent at ANY time.


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Squishy
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Unread post by Squishy on

Getting a license plate and a driver's license are not rights. If the terms are violated then the privilege can be revoked.
Last edited by Squishy on Sun Jul 26, 2009 1:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Proper1
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Unread post by Proper1 on

CoolChick's arguments about "our rights and freedoms" would (perhaps unfortunately) work better in the US than they do here. We hear so much about that country that we sometimes think our situation as citizens is like theirs: in significant ways, it is not. Think of the famous distinction between their "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness," and our "peace, order and good government." Our individual rights are much more circumscribed than theirs. If somebody can correct me, please do, but I don't think any (?) US jurisdiction allows its police to conduct random "spot checks" of drivers simply because they are on that road at that time. In Canada, such "spot checks" are routine. On either side of the border, though, an individual citizen withdrawing his or her "consent to be governed" automatically indicates that he or she is willing to accept the legal consequences. We Canadians as a group certainly have the right to withdraw our consent -- we get a chance to exercise that right at every election -- but as individuals, in a given situation, not so much.


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Unread post by CoolChick on

Squishy wrote:Getting a license plate and a driver's license are not rights. If the terms are violated then the privelege can be revoked.
You are wrong... according to the Bill of Rights..we have a RIGHT to travel on our highways....it is a RIGHT.... not a privilige as we are brainwashed into believing. Look it up....


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Squishy
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Unread post by Squishy on

The highways can be travelled on foot and on bike, as well as by bus or taxi.

Do you have a quotation of the section you are referring to? The closest thing I can find is our right to mobility under the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, which do not guarantee the use of highways.
Last edited by Squishy on Fri Jul 24, 2009 8:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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CoolChick
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Unread post by CoolChick on

We as human beings have a right to travel freely. It is clearly stated under Common law... I will get the exact location of that 'right' and post.

Highways are highways...doesn't matter whether its a 400 series or a country gravel road !!

This may help you understand the situation as per US proven cases....
http://www.lawfulpath.com/ref/right2travel.shtml

I will find the Canadian equivalent shortly... brb


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Squishy
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Unread post by Squishy on

"Right to travel freely" sounds like mobility rights. It is outlined in the Charter of Rights and Freedoms (not the Bill of Rights) and reads as such:
Mobility of citizens

6. (1) Every citizen of Canada has the right to enter, remain in and leave Canada.

Rights to move and gain livelihood

(2) Every citizen of Canada and every person who has the status of a permanent resident of Canada has the right
(a) to move to and take up residence in any province; and

(b) to pursue the gaining of a livelihood in any province.

Limitation

(3) The rights specified in subsection (2) are subject to
(a) any laws or practices of general application in force in a province other than those that discriminate among persons primarily on the basis of province of present or previous residence; and

(b) any laws providing for reasonable residency requirements as a qualification for the receipt of publicly provided social services.

Affirmative action programs

(4) Subsections (2) and (3) do not preclude any law, program or activity that has as its object the amelioration in a province of conditions of individuals in that province who are socially or economically disadvantaged if the rate of employment in that province is below the rate of employment in Canada.
No mention of highways - you can travel by any means available to you, which does not have to be by a vehicle you drive. Your right to mobility may be exercised on foot, by bus, by train, by plane, or as a passenger in someone else's vehicle.
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hwybear
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Unread post by hwybear on

CoolChick wrote: This may help you understand the situation as per US proven cases....
Don't recall that Ontario is in the USA......NEXT..
Above is merely a suggestion/thought and in no way constitutes legal advice or views of my employer. www.OHTA.ca


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Squishy
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Unread post by Squishy on

hwybear wrote:Don't recall that Ontario is in the USA......NEXT..
Don't know about that "Toronto" place...they even have that weird 'merican accent. :shock:
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Radar Identified
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Unread post by Radar Identified on

Proper1 wrote:If somebody can correct me, please do, but I don't think any (?) US jurisdiction allows its police to conduct random "spot checks" of drivers simply because they are on that road at that time.
Several states do, including Michigan, where I lived for two years. Usually in states where random checks are not allowed, an officer must have some reasonable suspicion to stop the vehicle, or have witnessed an action by the driver.
Proper1 wrote:On either side of the border, though, an individual citizen withdrawing his or her "consent to be governed" automatically indicates that he or she is willing to accept the legal consequences.
Well said. If someone really doesn't want to be governed by the laws of Canada, that person has an easy option: LEAVE.
CoolChick wrote:This may help you understand the situation as per US proven cases....
Nothing in the United States Bill of Rights or Constitution gives a person a right to own or operate a motor vehicle. That link was the work of a libertarian who cherry-picked cases that agreed with him and ignored the hundreds of cases that didn't. Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms only guarantees mobility, not the right to drive a vehicle. Put it this way, if I have a "right" to drive, is the government going to step in and give me a free car? As for your "right" to travel, I think Squishy said it best:
Squishy wrote:you can travel by any means available to you, which does not have to be by a vehicle you drive. Your right to mobility may be exercised on foot, by bus, by train, by plane, or as a passenger in someone else's vehicle.
But as for this...
Squishy wrote:Don't know about that "Toronto" place...
You have got to be kidding me, Squish. :lol:


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Squishy
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Unread post by Squishy on

Come on, you have to admit Toronto is one of the most "American" cities in Canada. I lived there for over ten years and during that time I learned very little about Canadian culture. I did know about the latest catchphrases, fashion trends, music developments, and other stuff from across the border.

I'll forgive you guys when you adopt either "aboat" or "aboot" as the correct (and only) pronunciation. 8)
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CoolChick
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Unread post by CoolChick on

hwybear wrote:
CoolChick wrote: This may help you understand the situation as per US proven cases....
Don't recall that Ontario is in the USA......NEXT..
Actually whether or not Ontario is in US or not is not the issue... LAW is based on Common Laws both in the USA UK and Canada. We have a RIGHT to travel which stems from Magna Carta and the UK Bill of Rights. Canada is a commonwealth country and the Laws of Canada are based on BRITISH Law. That is why the QUEEN still graces the Canadian bill of exchange (ie. legal tender )


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Squishy
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Unread post by Squishy on

That lady on our legal tender happens to be the Queen of Canada, but yes - we have a queen because of our relationship with the United Kingdom. However, are you saying that common law is the only valid law, and anything enacted after that is not valid unless consented to by every individual? And assuming that, does not choosing to live in this area mean you have consented to all applicable laws? Stating that an "act" is not law is false - it is not common law, but it is still law.

Our right to mobility does not guarantee our right to drive. If you, as a law-abiding citizen, were told by the government that you were unable to leave the city of London or the province of Ontario, then your right to mobility would be violated. Revoking your drivers license still leaves several modes of transport available to you; you don't get to choose your preferred mode. As long as some way of leaving the area is available to you, your rights are intact with regards to mobility.
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Unread post by CoolChick on

I am saying we have a right to travel PERIOD. people were driving motororised vehicles before the Highway Traffic Act ever was !!!!!!

And YES... Acts require our consent... try getting a drivers licence without signing anything.... or buying a car or getting plates or getting a new ownershipo...all require signatures.... in other words CONSENT...you are consenting to the terms of that contract. If you dont sign it you are not bound by it..... Same when you get a mortgage..you SIGN for it and are bound by the rules within it.... Dont sign, don't consent, hence you cannot breach !!!!

Mobility DOES guarantee our right to travel by operating any vehicle.... so long as we are not engaged in commerce. Commerce being as a true DRIVER which is a JOB... which you would get PAID for. Then you act in commerce and are subject to commercial liability. I do not drive for money I drive to travel from point A to point B.....that is my RIGHT. Removing consent to be governed under an Act means removing consent to be bound by the terms of that contract. We are supposed to be FREE as a people so therefore we are free to sign or not sign, consent or not. You can remove yourself from the governance of anyone especially a legal FICTION which is a corporation.

Government is not there as a GOD, it is there as an elected body to SERVE the people....we are not supposed to be SERVING them. As with police officers they are SERVANTS of the people not vice versa... we should remember that and more to the point so should they !!!

As for the ignoramous who suggests we can leave if we dont like it...Why should people leave... people are sovereign and have a RIGHT to be here unlike governments who have to be elected to govern and even then are never sovereign as they are a CORPORATION acting in COMMERCE.

And to the individual who posted and then deleted his post.... we have a right to travel by any mode of transport not just BY FOOT as you suggested... But I gather you know that and thats why you deleted your post.... If a common law/ natural law does not state any limitations then no limitations apply...

We have a right to travel PERIOD


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Squishy
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Unread post by Squishy on

So I can jump in a plane and fly it around because I have not signed anything to do with a pilot's licence and thus am not bound by any aviation laws?

I can go enter restricted airspace and refuse to be shot down because I do not consent to their laws. We'll see how that goes.

Going along the same subject, how do you feel about road closures due to parades or demonstrations? Do they violate your right to drive down the road you choose?
CoolChick wrote:I am saying we have a right to travel PERIOD.
This is also what I am saying. Walking is travelling. PERIOD. Biking is travelling. PERIOD. Taking a bus is travelling. PERIOD!




Last edited by Squishy on Sat Jul 25, 2009 11:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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