Improper left turn with Failing to provide Motor owner Title

ramcan
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Improper left turn with Failing to provide Motor owner Title

by: ramcan on
Sun Nov 18, 2012 6:39 pm

I got two tickets first for improper left turn and second I was not able to find the owner's title of the car.
I took the left turn from the lane that was supposed to go straight or right (NO signs though). One lane for Left and other for straight or right.
Straight lane was going into a private property of Canada Post and only Canada Post motors were supposed to go straight. so I thought since straight is for private property I can take left turn while I am on the lane beside the left lane (assuming it as two left lanes).

There was a cop right there in the left lane and was turning left. He stopped me right there and came to me in anger and said "what are you thinking you were doing? you are taking wrong turn right in front of me, It is like slapping the officer right on his face" I got very stressed and nervous to hear that.
I told him I would I do that intentionally right front of you? I am driving for last 10 years and never got any ticket.
on that he said you will get one today.
For that while I got more concerned about annoying him than my offense. His anger burst for something unusual for me.
He ask me about license and insurance which I provided. After that he asked me about ownership record, in that tensed moment I was not able to recall if I ever kept ownership record in the car, though later I found it was right there in the dashboard.

That day I got two offense notices of $110 each. This is my first ever ticket/s not sure what should be my next step/s.
Option 2 (talk to prosecutor ) or Option 3(going for trial).
Can someone please suggest which is going to be best option for me?




Stanton
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by: Stanton on
Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:56 am

If you want to get one of the charges dropped, you'll have to work out a plea deal with the Crown. Quite likely they would be willing to drop the ownership charge if you plead to the improper turn. You can either request a pre trial resolution meeting or try to work something out the day of the trial.


ramcan
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by: ramcan on
Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:46 pm

Stanton wrote:If you want to get one of the charges dropped, you'll have to work out a plea deal with the Crown. Quite likely they would be willing to drop the ownership charge if you plead to the improper turn. You can either request a pre trial resolution meeting or try to work something out the day of the trial.
Thanks for your advice! By Pre-Trial resolution meeting you meant going for Option 2?
Day of trail certainly would mean going for Option 3.

Another question is that "How the officer would prove that I was as fault?"
What kind of proof will he have? or would Crown just go by police officer's words?


viper1
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by: viper1 on
Tue Nov 27, 2012 7:50 pm

ramcan wrote:
Stanton wrote:If you want to get one of the charges dropped, you'll have to work out a plea deal with the Crown. Quite likely they would be willing to drop the ownership charge if you plead to the improper turn. You can either request a pre trial resolution meeting or try to work something out the day of the trial.
Thanks for your advice! By Pre-Trial resolution meeting you meant going for Option 2?
Day of trail certainly would mean going for Option 3.

Another question is that "How the officer would prove that I was as fault?"
What kind of proof will he have? or would Crown just go by police officer's words?
I would have called it distracted driving as you did not see the signs.
But you made a mistake and should have gone straight then turned around.(no ticket that way)

Lots of people are doing what you did as it saves you waiting like everyone else had to.
I watch very carefully for moves like yours as I follow the rules but still may have to move over
to the right quick and cars like yours may be there. The cop was right to stop you.

If you pick option 2 you admit guilt.
Maybe if you pick 3 you could get a deal.

As to fault he saw you.

Cheers
Viper1
"hang onto your chair when reading my posts
use at your own risk"


ramcan
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by: ramcan on
Tue Nov 27, 2012 10:18 pm

Thanks Viper1 for your reply.
It was not possible to go straight, there is a private property of Canada Post and only Canada Post vehicles can go straight from there.
I had to take left.
Also, I already opted for Option 2 this morning.
I thought if I pick 2 and see if I get a good deal.
If I don't get a good deal with option 2 then I will go for Option 3.

Would that make any bad impact on my case later at the time off trial if choose option 2 now and later go for Trial/option 3?


viper1
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by: viper1 on
Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:02 am

option 2 the cop does have not to show up.(as you admit guilt)

As to you had to turn
Was the ticket better then the other?(ie nothing)

You messed up and got caught.
I only help because I think you may have learned a lesson.

Cheers
Cindan
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use at your own risk"


Stanton
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by: Stanton on
Wed Nov 28, 2012 5:02 pm

viper1 wrote:option 2 the cop does have not to show up.(as you admit guilt)
That's not always the case, as some jurisdictions now have different options on the back of tickets.

Some now list option 2 as "early resolution - meet with prosecutor". If you can't work out a resolution, you can still request a trial afterwards.

Just make sure that's what option 2 is versus "plead guilty with explanation".


ramcan
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by: ramcan on
Wed Nov 28, 2012 7:25 pm

Stanton and Viper1 thanks for your reply/suggestion.

viper1 wrote:I only help because I think you may have learned a lesson.
I am not stating that Police Officer was wrong. All I was stating is that whatever I did was I did it thinking it was safe to do.
That is the first ticket that I got in 10 years of my driving history. And surly I learn it a hard way.

Now, I just want to get rid of my "failed to show ownership record" ticket, which I got because I lost my memory after listening to the annoyed Police Officer.
Also, since that was my first ever offense, I am wondering the judge / prosecutor is going to lower the charges.

Thanks for your advice!


wizzard
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by: wizzard on
Wed Nov 28, 2012 11:47 pm

I had something similar recently. I got my first, and so far only, tickets a year ago. I was exiting a parking lot and missed a sign prohibiting continuing straigh on into the residential street and mandating you turn left back to the main road. So I went straight on and there was a cop waiting. However I then discovered I had forgotten to put my new insurance card in the car, it had just expired a week or so earlier. Bad luck there to, simple human error with remembering the new card.
Anyway I went to trial a few weeks back, decided not to file an 11B as it was less than a year and I didn't feel that strongly about it. I tried to meet the prosecutor earlier but they would not do a meeting so on the day of the trial they had us line up and check in and she offered everyone a deal. I showed her my valid insurance card for the time in question and she dropped that charge without me even asking, then she asked if I was concerned with the fine and points for the other one and offered to drop it from Disobey Sign which was $110 and 2 points to 'fail to proceed as directed' which was $65+fee and no points. Still a conviction but a fairly low one and I didn't feel like arguing anymore since she had dropped one already and I was now at one charge, no points and $65 rather than 2 charges, $200 or so of fines and 2 points.
So you should definitely meeting and if you bring your valid documents you might be able to get something similar, depending on the prosecutor.
Ironically the final conviction notice I received with fine payment info etc. had the charge as fail to proceed at a green light, ironic as there are no traffic lights on either of the streets stated in the conviction, but whatever.
There were a couple of people there for stop sign violations, one was a rolling stop, the other guy I talked to just compeltley ran it. Both got similar 'fail to proceed' charges to plead to.
Most interesting was a woman representing her husband who couldn't be there as he had jsut been deployed in the military. He has a speeing charge that had already been reduced at the roadside by the cop but the prosecutor had dropped it even further to a very low offence. The JP was fairly unhappy and wanted it changed back but the prosecutor said that it was up to her and she was making allowances because he was serving his country. The JP commented that it was a really high rate of speed on the original stop but eventually conceeded and said that she would allow it because of the sacrifice he was making for his country.




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