May 27, 2008 04:30 AM Kerry Gillespie Queen's Park Bureau TORONTO STAR Jurisdictions around the world are busy banning cellphones in cars but Ontario is looking into broader regulation to encompass all electronic distractions, the premier says. "I know what they've done in other provinces and other states: they've just dealt with one item, the cellphone," Premier Dalton McGuinty said yesterday. But police say drivers tapping addresses into a car's GPS system or emailing on a BlackBerry have big distractions, too, McGuinty said. "What about the next gadget that they haven't invented yet?" McGuinty said he has asked Transportation Minister Jim Bradley to look at some form of "next-generation legislation" that would cover existing electronic devices like cellphones and future gadgets. "I talk to the police and they say ... there's more than just one item (distracting drivers). I've asked Bradley to take a look to see if there's something we might do, which deals with distractors generally, and I think in particular, electronic distractors," said McGuinty. This appears to be an about-face for McGuinty, who has consistently argued government can't legislate against everything and that a cellphone ban wasn't needed because there were already laws to prevent dangerous driving. Just six months ago, when asked if Ontario should ban cellphone use while driving, McGuinty said: "There are provisions right now, to be found in the Highway Traffic Act ...or the Criminal Code that allow for prosecutions for people who are driving carelessly. So, unless and until I get different advice from the people who work our roads, and look to their safety, we will maintain our position," he said. "I guess one of the issues then becomes, so, where do we draw the line? More than 50 countries have laws that ban cellphone use by drivers to some degree, including Australia, Britain, France, Germany, the Netherlands, Sweden and Switzerland. In 2002, Newfoundland became the first province to ban the use of hand-held phones while driving. Nova Scotia and Quebec have recently passed legislation to ban hand-held devices. Fines range from a low of $100 in Quebec to a high of $400 in Newfoundland
May 27, 2008 04:30 AM
Kerry Gillespie
Queen's Park Bureau
TORONTO STAR
Jurisdictions around the world are busy banning cellphones in cars but Ontario is looking into broader regulation to encompass all electronic distractions, the premier says.
"I know what they've done in other provinces and other states: they've just dealt with one item, the cellphone," Premier Dalton McGuinty said yesterday.
But police say drivers tapping addresses into a car's GPS system or emailing on a BlackBerry have big distractions, too, McGuinty said.
"What about the next gadget that they haven't invented yet?"
McGuinty said he has asked Transportation Minister Jim Bradley to look at some form of "next-generation legislation" that would cover existing electronic devices like cellphones and future gadgets.
"I talk to the police and they say ... there's more than just one item (distracting drivers). I've asked Bradley to take a look to see if there's something we might do, which deals with distractors generally, and I think in particular, electronic distractors," said McGuinty.
This appears to be an about-face for McGuinty, who has consistently argued government can't legislate against everything and that a cellphone ban wasn't needed because there were already laws to prevent dangerous driving.
Just six months ago, when asked if Ontario should ban cellphone use while driving, McGuinty said:
"There are provisions right now, to be found in the Highway Traffic Act ...or the Criminal Code that allow for prosecutions for people who are driving carelessly. So, unless and until I get different advice from the people who work our roads, and look to their safety, we will maintain our position," he said.
"I guess one of the issues then becomes, so, where do we draw the line?
More than 50 countries have laws that ban cellphone use by drivers to some degree, including Australia, Britain, France, Germany, the Netherlands, Sweden and Switzerland.
In 2002, Newfoundland became the first province to ban the use of hand-held phones while driving. Nova Scotia and Quebec have recently passed legislation to ban hand-held devices.
Fines range from a low of $100 in Quebec to a high of $400 in Newfoundland
Above is merely a suggestion/thought and in no way constitutes legal advice or views of my employer. www.OHTA.ca
Ban the use of cell phones while driving, of course -- and the sooner the safer -- but it sounds like the good folks at Queen's Park are holding that up until they can breathe life into another of their clumsy ban-everything bills. They may be wondering if they can go after in-car radios (including satellite radios), for instance. A radio = an electronic device that can result in driver distraction. Cigarette lighters too, for that matter (though they are electrical devices, rather than electronic). Oh, and GPS units, of course. And CD players. And console bins between the front seats (those are neither electronic nor electric, but hey, what the heck, as long as we're banning anything that might distract a driver, let's throw them in too; we can always revise them back out of the legislation if too many potential voters squawk, and as long as we do keep a ban in place it could be a nice little revenue centre). A ban on cell phone use while driving has been suspiciously long in coming already: that's a serious, correctable safety issue. It should not be further delayed just so it can be used as a headline-grabbing bit to deflect attention from the less well founded provisions in some ban-everything bill.
Ban the use of cell phones while driving, of course -- and the sooner the safer -- but it sounds like the good folks at Queen's Park are holding that up until they can breathe life into another of their clumsy ban-everything bills.
They may be wondering if they can go after in-car radios (including satellite radios), for instance. A radio = an electronic device that can result in driver distraction. Cigarette lighters too, for that matter (though they are electrical devices, rather than electronic). Oh, and GPS units, of course. And CD players. And console bins between the front seats (those are neither electronic nor electric, but hey, what the heck, as long as we're banning anything that might distract a driver, let's throw them in too; we can always revise them back out of the legislation if too many potential voters squawk, and as long as we do keep a ban in place it could be a nice little revenue centre).
A ban on cell phone use while driving has been suspiciously long in coming already: that's a serious, correctable safety issue. It should not be further delayed just so it can be used as a headline-grabbing bit to deflect attention from the less well founded provisions in some ban-everything bill.
Why not just ban cars in general and we all take buses to work. I really think that the genaral pulblic should stand up for our rights and freedom. What is a "electronic gadget" Another big GREY area you can get a ticket for. My car came stock with an ECU/ABS/TractionControl, is that a gadget. We all use them while driving. Total BS..maybe next election you should really consider who to vote for . Oh and what about the police cars?, are they not full of electronic "gadgets" like radars,gps, cell phones and computers..go figure. A police chase is on and the officer is trying to input the licence plate of the vehicle ahead, how safe is that.??
Why not just ban cars in general and we all take buses to work. I really think that the genaral pulblic should stand up for our rights and freedom. What is a "electronic gadget" Another big GREY area you can get a ticket for. My car came stock with an ECU/ABS/TractionControl, is that a gadget. We all use them while driving. Total BS..maybe next election you should really consider who to vote for . Oh and what about the police cars?, are they not full of electronic "gadgets" like radars,gps, cell phones and computers..go figure. A police chase is on and the officer is trying to input the licence plate of the vehicle ahead, how safe is that.??
This is gonna' irk a few readers here,... but, ya' know, I think the drive-thru line at the local Tim Horton's is one of the most dangerous systems out there. Just try watching people trying to drive down the road immediately after leaving the exit. They're trying to pocket their change, get a quick sip of their coffee, and juggle whatever pastry delight caught their attention this time, all at the same time!! I once saw a lady drive right up the curb (snowbank) then bounce back down into her lane JUST after exiting Tim's. When I passed her, she was yelling profusely at the coffee spilled all over her blouse and coat. And she didn't even have the sense to pull over. She was just wiping herself down while still driving along. But I know Tim's is sacred ground for many, so I really feel bad for pointing out this serious issue ;) Another "non-gadget" distraction I have seen on numerous occasion is map-reading while driving. I even had a lady rear-end me once while I was stopped at a red. After being wholloped from behind, I looked in my mirror and saw her pull her map down from her face! Grrrrrrrrrr!! Oh! One more thing. They better exclude CB radios from the gadget definition list. Truckers would throw a fit. What I find strange is CB's never seem(ed) to cause a problem, but I see folks on cell phones absolutely "tuned-out" from their driving responsibilities. And yet, they're not all that different in function. Hmmmm
This is gonna' irk a few readers here,... but, ya' know, I think the drive-thru line at the local Tim Horton's is one of the most dangerous systems out there. Just try watching people trying to drive down the road immediately after leaving the exit. They're trying to pocket their change, get a quick sip of their coffee, and juggle whatever pastry delight caught their attention this time, all at the same time!!
I once saw a lady drive right up the curb (snowbank) then bounce back down into her lane JUST after exiting Tim's. When I passed her, she was yelling profusely at the coffee spilled all over her blouse and coat. And she didn't even have the sense to pull over. She was just wiping herself down while still driving along.
But I know Tim's is sacred ground for many, so I really feel bad for pointing out this serious issue
Another "non-gadget" distraction I have seen on numerous occasion is map-reading while driving. I even had a lady rear-end me once while I was stopped at a red. After being wholloped from behind, I looked in my mirror and saw her pull her map down from her face! Grrrrrrrrrr!!
Oh! One more thing. They better exclude CB radios from the gadget definition list. Truckers would throw a fit. What I find strange is CB's never seem(ed) to cause a problem, but I see folks on cell phones absolutely "tuned-out" from their driving responsibilities. And yet, they're not all that different in function. Hmmmm
These are all good points, Bookm, though I suspect that truckers never *seem* to cause a problem when CB-ing partly because we other drivers usually can't see what the truck driver is actually doing in the cab at the moment when his or her vehicle does something odd on the highway (we're usually too busy just trying to get out of the way and stay alive). Truckers spend a lot of time on the road (well, duh!) and accumulate a lot more driving experience than most of the rest of us, but each of them still relies on one standard Mark I brain and it just isn't wired to carry on a conversation about something other than driving and simultaneously pay sufficient attention to everything that's going on on the road. Keeping up your side of a cell phone conversation is a new animal and completely different from even talking with somebody else in the car, because the person you're talking to on the phone has none of the on-the-spot clues that will cause them to notice what's happening in your driving situation. You pay attention differently when the other side of a conversation that has nothing to do with your driving is coming into your brain via an electronic device. That said, though, I don't see how the map reading, GPS adjusting, Timmy spilling, radio adjustring, makeup applying, breakfast cereal eating (yep, I've seen it!) distracted drivers aren't covered already by HTA RSO 1990, cH8, s130, "Careless Driving." We don't need new and possibly flawed laws to address situations that proven law already covers.
Bookm wrote:
This is gonna' irk a few readers here,... but, ya' know, I think the drive-thru line at the local Tim Horton's is one of the most dangerous systems out there..
Another "non-gadget" distraction I have seen on numerous occasion is map-reading while driving...
Oh! One more thing. They better exclude CB radios from the gadget definition list. Truckers would throw a fit. What I find strange is CB's never seem(ed) to cause a problem, but I see folks on cell phones absolutely "tuned-out" from their driving responsibilities. And yet, they're not all that different in function. Hmmmm
These are all good points, Bookm, though I suspect that truckers never *seem* to cause a problem when CB-ing partly because we other drivers usually can't see what the truck driver is actually doing in the cab at the moment when his or her vehicle does something odd on the highway (we're usually too busy just trying to get out of the way and stay alive). Truckers spend a lot of time on the road (well, duh!) and accumulate a lot more driving experience than most of the rest of us, but each of them still relies on one standard Mark I brain and it just isn't wired to carry on a conversation about something other than driving and simultaneously pay sufficient attention to everything that's going on on the road.
Keeping up your side of a cell phone conversation is a new animal and completely different from even talking with somebody else in the car, because the person you're talking to on the phone has none of the on-the-spot clues that will cause them to notice what's happening in your driving situation. You pay attention differently when the other side of a conversation that has nothing to do with your driving is coming into your brain via an electronic device.
That said, though, I don't see how the map reading, GPS adjusting, Timmy spilling, radio adjustring, makeup applying, breakfast cereal eating (yep, I've seen it!) distracted drivers aren't covered already by HTA RSO 1990, cH8, s130, "Careless Driving."
We don't need new and possibly flawed laws to address situations that proven law already covers.
Don't forget to light the smoke at the same time :wink:
Bookm wrote:
This is gonna' irk a few readers here,... but, ya' know, I think the drive-thru line at the local Tim Horton's is one of the most dangerous systems out there. Just try watching people trying to drive down the road immediately after leaving the exit. They're trying to pocket their change, get a quick sip of their coffee, and juggle whatever pastry delight caught their attention this time, all at the same time!!
Don't forget to light the smoke at the same time
Above is merely a suggestion/thought and in no way constitutes legal advice or views of my employer. www.OHTA.ca
Well, the policemen usually (I hope) radio (although this is using an electronic device) to base with the license plates, because I usually see policemen using their computers when quietly parked somewhere. How was your experience about that Mr. Bear?
casper wrote:
Oh and what about the police cars?, are they not full of electronic "gadgets" like radars,gps, cell phones and computers..go figure. A police chase is on and the officer is trying to input the licence plate of the vehicle ahead, how safe is that.??
Well, the policemen usually (I hope) radio (although this is using an electronic device) to base with the license plates, because I usually see policemen using their computers when quietly parked somewhere. How was your experience about that Mr. Bear?
"The more laws, the less justice" - Marcus Tullius Cicero
"The hardest thing to explain is the obvious"
Well, the policemen usually (I hope) radio (although this is using an electronic device) to base with the license plates, because I usually see policemen using their computers when quietly parked somewhere. How was your experience about that Mr. Bear? I'm not a bear ("our" Bear can speak very well for himself!), but I think the electronic stuff inside a police car is not our concern. These are the tools the officer was issued to do his or her job with, and that's that. Now, if he or she were driving while yakking on a private cell phone to a family member, or while playing with a GameBoy, that would be different! But I imagine that sort of thing would rarely happen -- like, never.
racer wrote:
casper wrote:
Oh and what about the police cars?, are they not full of electronic "gadgets" like radars,gps, cell phones and computers..go figure. A police chase is on and the officer is trying to input the licence plate of the vehicle ahead, how safe is that.??
Well, the policemen usually (I hope) radio (although this is using an electronic device) to base with the license plates, because I usually see policemen using their computers when quietly parked somewhere. How was your experience about that Mr. Bear?
I'm not a bear ("our" Bear can speak very well for himself!), but I think the electronic stuff inside a police car is not our concern. These are the tools the officer was issued to do his or her job with, and that's that. Now, if he or she were driving while yakking on a private cell phone to a family member, or while playing with a GameBoy, that would be different! But I imagine that sort of thing would rarely happen -- like, never.
I have received a $450 ticket for parking in a handicap loading zone. I did not see the sign and the pavement was not marked. I have lived in Toronto for 15 years and this is the first ticket of any kind I have received. My last ticket, in a different city, was over 20 years ago. I am always very careful about parking and traffic regulations.
I cannot afford to pay $450. I do not make a lot of…
Petition to change HTA 136 (1)(A)Failure to Stop at Stop Sign
Hello, it does not seem right that not coming to a complete stop, that your wheels do not stop turning or rolling stop carries the same penalty as not stopping at all at a stop sign . I think it's time this laws challenged and quashed. I wondered how to go both that? Can we start a website that we can sign a petition to have this law…
My 78 year old Mother got a ticket at 8am on March 31/09 as the morning sun was in her eyes and she (as well, many others), didnt see the sign ahead-"No straight throughway (between 7-9am Mon to Fri". (All english Sign might I add) at Dundas & Shaw. (**Proceed Contrary Sign Intersection -HTA-144(9).
4 months prior to her court date in November, I requested disclosure 3 times prior to her…
Reference is made in the HTA to Stop Signs at Railway Crossings (passive crossings):
HTA, 163 (2)
O Reg 615 (7)
However I cannot find specific regulation detailing how a railway crossing controlled by a stop sign must be configured.
The Ontario Traffic Manual, Book 11 - Markings and Delineation under section "3.9 Reserved Facility Markings - Railways" (p99) speaks to the needs for marking, but is…
I got a parking ticket on Halloween around 9pm for parking in front of a cross walk in a residential street. There's no sign or anything that says you can't park there.
You know the crosswalk/walkways in residential streets that are fenced on both sides and that simply lead you to another street on the other side is what I'm talking about.
The parking ticket officer must have seen me walk in…
So I was on my way home, going a solid 120 as usual in the fast lane. Someone decides to cut me off going less than 100. I do a quick double lane change and speed up unknowingly hitting apparently 150. After speeding for a mere 20 seconds, I am pulled over. Cop says he reduced the ticket to 49 over, I was charged $359 for that. Of course, my insurance isn't in my car... I had to take it out…
Hi, new at this and could use all the help and guidance..
My brother just got in an accident where he swerved to avoid hitting a squirrel and got in an accident. Luckily, no one was hurt as he did not hit another party so it was just our car (old car and it will be a write off). The cop issued a careless driving ticket - notice of appearance. I read a similiar thread about this but not sure if it…
There is some construction going on for the last three months and hence, the northbound right lane on airport road at queen street which exits is closed due to construction and they have put barriers. they have put the right turn sign on the adjacent lane in the black background. Also the right lane north of Queen Street at Airport road is closed and they have an arrow sign there which indicates…
I keep being told that if you are found to be driving with bare feet, you could be fined etc... but nowhere can I find the actual rule anyway. Does anyone know if this is truly illegal - or perhaps used to be? In summer, sandals being what they are, its much safer, in my opinion to kick them off and drive with bare feet.... but then I hate anything on my feet in hot weather!
I got pulled over yesterday on the Sir John A. Macdonald Parkway in Ottawa for going 106 km/h in a 60 zone. It was around noon, the weather was good and I was the only car on the road. He was hiding around a corner and was just stopped in the right lane (there are no shoulders on this road). I was alone in my car and neither of us said much, he didnt reduce my fine and gave me a ticket of a set…
I recently received a ticket from a military policeman on a military base in Ontario. Therefore, I was charged under the "Government Property Traffic Regulations" (GPTR), section 9. I know that some may say, why are you posting on a website for the HTA? Well, in Ontario, the military uses the Provincial Offences Act/Ontario Court of Justice for traffic tickets issued on a military base, i.e.…
For my first ever post, I'm going to ask for your own story dealing with a s.172 charge.
There is a lot of teeth grinding online about the street racing laws but few hands-on accounts from people who have been there and done that. I saw many posts from people seeking advice but few mention the actual outcome.
With about 1/3 conviction rate, there should be many success stories around. Even if you we…
... two cars pulled over, we (my wife and 7 month old boy) were passing a truck in the passing lane, first car passed me and I pulled out behind him. Crested a hill while on a curve, pass the truck and move back into the driving lane. Police officer shows up behind and pulls us both over. Gave me a ticket saying I was following the car in front doing 124km/hr.
We all know that numerous police agencies around Ontario (and world for that matter) set up speed traps in inconspicuous locations to catch motorists who are speeding.
If you know of any speed traps that are in regular use please post them here for all to know and avoid speeding fines.
Format: Town, Location, Direction, known days of operation (if known).
Sorry if this has been covered, but I searched and didn't find anything.
Just thought I'd share my recent experience.
Last Friday I was driving myself and my wife home from a nice dinner date in Markham/Richmond Hill north of T-DOT, and I had two (what looked like) ETF officers "tail" me home and park on my driveway.
I had been driving southbound and reached a red light stopped in the right…
I have my trial date coming up next week. I got a ticket in North Bay, ON for driving 139km/h on a 90km/h. He was using a Genesis II directional radar. Tested it before and after the stop according to the notes. In his notes, he mentions the speeds that were displayed on the radar which were 140, 141, and 139. In his notes, he also mentions that the color of my car was blue when it is…
I paid my fines for 2 tickets; fail to provide ownership and fail to provide insurence. I now know i should have checked not guilty and mailed them in.
(the papers were in the car. I was looking for them but was distracted by a badgering 2nd officer who was attempting to identify my passenger. I found them when i stopped for coffee later.)
Now that you actually opened this topic and I have your attention
Please read all items below 1 to 8
1) If YOU start a THREAD/DISCUSSION for an incident - KEEP on ONE THREAD, even for no activity for several months or even just to keep updates for court steps, stay on one thread
HOW DO I FIND MY POST? >> TOP right of page is the following: view unread posts / view new posts / view…
I plan to request disclosure through registered mail or fax. I've tried requesting in person but got rejected because they told me I did not provide sufficient information on my Disclosure Request letter.
My question is, do they really need the officer's name and division when I provided them with the Offence Number, Offence Date, Charge, Court Date, and Location? Also they said they do…
Been charged with Careless Driving in a residential area.
1. The Officer has a Witness statement. If the Witness does not appear at Trail, can that statement be introduced at Trial by the Crown and used against me.?
2. The Address "Number" (the Street is correct) on the infraction does not remotely exist, is an empty field. Does this matter?
Is there a requirement for commercial vehicles to be maintained only by licensed mechanics (e.g., oil changes, tire rotations)? I'm working with Habitat for Humanity and we are looking into a cargo van for the ReStore; I'm more than capable of doing maintenance but I'm not sure if it is legal because I am not a licensed mechanic.
which I had not search.
Now that you actually opened this topic and I have your attention 