May 27, 2008 04:30 AM Kerry Gillespie Queen's Park Bureau TORONTO STAR Jurisdictions around the world are busy banning cellphones in cars but Ontario is looking into broader regulation to encompass all electronic distractions, the premier says. "I know what they've done in other provinces and other states: they've just dealt with one item, the cellphone," Premier Dalton McGuinty said yesterday. But police say drivers tapping addresses into a car's GPS system or emailing on a BlackBerry have big distractions, too, McGuinty said. "What about the next gadget that they haven't invented yet?" McGuinty said he has asked Transportation Minister Jim Bradley to look at some form of "next-generation legislation" that would cover existing electronic devices like cellphones and future gadgets. "I talk to the police and they say ... there's more than just one item (distracting drivers). I've asked Bradley to take a look to see if there's something we might do, which deals with distractors generally, and I think in particular, electronic distractors," said McGuinty. This appears to be an about-face for McGuinty, who has consistently argued government can't legislate against everything and that a cellphone ban wasn't needed because there were already laws to prevent dangerous driving. Just six months ago, when asked if Ontario should ban cellphone use while driving, McGuinty said: "There are provisions right now, to be found in the Highway Traffic Act ...or the Criminal Code that allow for prosecutions for people who are driving carelessly. So, unless and until I get different advice from the people who work our roads, and look to their safety, we will maintain our position," he said. "I guess one of the issues then becomes, so, where do we draw the line? More than 50 countries have laws that ban cellphone use by drivers to some degree, including Australia, Britain, France, Germany, the Netherlands, Sweden and Switzerland. In 2002, Newfoundland became the first province to ban the use of hand-held phones while driving. Nova Scotia and Quebec have recently passed legislation to ban hand-held devices. Fines range from a low of $100 in Quebec to a high of $400 in Newfoundland
May 27, 2008 04:30 AM
Kerry Gillespie
Queen's Park Bureau
TORONTO STAR
Jurisdictions around the world are busy banning cellphones in cars but Ontario is looking into broader regulation to encompass all electronic distractions, the premier says.
"I know what they've done in other provinces and other states: they've just dealt with one item, the cellphone," Premier Dalton McGuinty said yesterday.
But police say drivers tapping addresses into a car's GPS system or emailing on a BlackBerry have big distractions, too, McGuinty said.
"What about the next gadget that they haven't invented yet?"
McGuinty said he has asked Transportation Minister Jim Bradley to look at some form of "next-generation legislation" that would cover existing electronic devices like cellphones and future gadgets.
"I talk to the police and they say ... there's more than just one item (distracting drivers). I've asked Bradley to take a look to see if there's something we might do, which deals with distractors generally, and I think in particular, electronic distractors," said McGuinty.
This appears to be an about-face for McGuinty, who has consistently argued government can't legislate against everything and that a cellphone ban wasn't needed because there were already laws to prevent dangerous driving.
Just six months ago, when asked if Ontario should ban cellphone use while driving, McGuinty said:
"There are provisions right now, to be found in the Highway Traffic Act ...or the Criminal Code that allow for prosecutions for people who are driving carelessly. So, unless and until I get different advice from the people who work our roads, and look to their safety, we will maintain our position," he said.
"I guess one of the issues then becomes, so, where do we draw the line?
More than 50 countries have laws that ban cellphone use by drivers to some degree, including Australia, Britain, France, Germany, the Netherlands, Sweden and Switzerland.
In 2002, Newfoundland became the first province to ban the use of hand-held phones while driving. Nova Scotia and Quebec have recently passed legislation to ban hand-held devices.
Fines range from a low of $100 in Quebec to a high of $400 in Newfoundland
Above is merely a suggestion/thought and in no way constitutes legal advice or views of my employer. www.OHTA.ca
Ban the use of cell phones while driving, of course -- and the sooner the safer -- but it sounds like the good folks at Queen's Park are holding that up until they can breathe life into another of their clumsy ban-everything bills. They may be wondering if they can go after in-car radios (including satellite radios), for instance. A radio = an electronic device that can result in driver distraction. Cigarette lighters too, for that matter (though they are electrical devices, rather than electronic). Oh, and GPS units, of course. And CD players. And console bins between the front seats (those are neither electronic nor electric, but hey, what the heck, as long as we're banning anything that might distract a driver, let's throw them in too; we can always revise them back out of the legislation if too many potential voters squawk, and as long as we do keep a ban in place it could be a nice little revenue centre). A ban on cell phone use while driving has been suspiciously long in coming already: that's a serious, correctable safety issue. It should not be further delayed just so it can be used as a headline-grabbing bit to deflect attention from the less well founded provisions in some ban-everything bill.
Ban the use of cell phones while driving, of course -- and the sooner the safer -- but it sounds like the good folks at Queen's Park are holding that up until they can breathe life into another of their clumsy ban-everything bills.
They may be wondering if they can go after in-car radios (including satellite radios), for instance. A radio = an electronic device that can result in driver distraction. Cigarette lighters too, for that matter (though they are electrical devices, rather than electronic). Oh, and GPS units, of course. And CD players. And console bins between the front seats (those are neither electronic nor electric, but hey, what the heck, as long as we're banning anything that might distract a driver, let's throw them in too; we can always revise them back out of the legislation if too many potential voters squawk, and as long as we do keep a ban in place it could be a nice little revenue centre).
A ban on cell phone use while driving has been suspiciously long in coming already: that's a serious, correctable safety issue. It should not be further delayed just so it can be used as a headline-grabbing bit to deflect attention from the less well founded provisions in some ban-everything bill.
Why not just ban cars in general and we all take buses to work. I really think that the genaral pulblic should stand up for our rights and freedom. What is a "electronic gadget" Another big GREY area you can get a ticket for. My car came stock with an ECU/ABS/TractionControl, is that a gadget. We all use them while driving. Total BS..maybe next election you should really consider who to vote for . Oh and what about the police cars?, are they not full of electronic "gadgets" like radars,gps, cell phones and computers..go figure. A police chase is on and the officer is trying to input the licence plate of the vehicle ahead, how safe is that.??
Why not just ban cars in general and we all take buses to work. I really think that the genaral pulblic should stand up for our rights and freedom. What is a "electronic gadget" Another big GREY area you can get a ticket for. My car came stock with an ECU/ABS/TractionControl, is that a gadget. We all use them while driving. Total BS..maybe next election you should really consider who to vote for . Oh and what about the police cars?, are they not full of electronic "gadgets" like radars,gps, cell phones and computers..go figure. A police chase is on and the officer is trying to input the licence plate of the vehicle ahead, how safe is that.??
This is gonna' irk a few readers here,... but, ya' know, I think the drive-thru line at the local Tim Horton's is one of the most dangerous systems out there. Just try watching people trying to drive down the road immediately after leaving the exit. They're trying to pocket their change, get a quick sip of their coffee, and juggle whatever pastry delight caught their attention this time, all at the same time!! I once saw a lady drive right up the curb (snowbank) then bounce back down into her lane JUST after exiting Tim's. When I passed her, she was yelling profusely at the coffee spilled all over her blouse and coat. And she didn't even have the sense to pull over. She was just wiping herself down while still driving along. But I know Tim's is sacred ground for many, so I really feel bad for pointing out this serious issue ;) Another "non-gadget" distraction I have seen on numerous occasion is map-reading while driving. I even had a lady rear-end me once while I was stopped at a red. After being wholloped from behind, I looked in my mirror and saw her pull her map down from her face! Grrrrrrrrrr!! Oh! One more thing. They better exclude CB radios from the gadget definition list. Truckers would throw a fit. What I find strange is CB's never seem(ed) to cause a problem, but I see folks on cell phones absolutely "tuned-out" from their driving responsibilities. And yet, they're not all that different in function. Hmmmm
This is gonna' irk a few readers here,... but, ya' know, I think the drive-thru line at the local Tim Horton's is one of the most dangerous systems out there. Just try watching people trying to drive down the road immediately after leaving the exit. They're trying to pocket their change, get a quick sip of their coffee, and juggle whatever pastry delight caught their attention this time, all at the same time!!
I once saw a lady drive right up the curb (snowbank) then bounce back down into her lane JUST after exiting Tim's. When I passed her, she was yelling profusely at the coffee spilled all over her blouse and coat. And she didn't even have the sense to pull over. She was just wiping herself down while still driving along.
But I know Tim's is sacred ground for many, so I really feel bad for pointing out this serious issue
Another "non-gadget" distraction I have seen on numerous occasion is map-reading while driving. I even had a lady rear-end me once while I was stopped at a red. After being wholloped from behind, I looked in my mirror and saw her pull her map down from her face! Grrrrrrrrrr!!
Oh! One more thing. They better exclude CB radios from the gadget definition list. Truckers would throw a fit. What I find strange is CB's never seem(ed) to cause a problem, but I see folks on cell phones absolutely "tuned-out" from their driving responsibilities. And yet, they're not all that different in function. Hmmmm
These are all good points, Bookm, though I suspect that truckers never *seem* to cause a problem when CB-ing partly because we other drivers usually can't see what the truck driver is actually doing in the cab at the moment when his or her vehicle does something odd on the highway (we're usually too busy just trying to get out of the way and stay alive). Truckers spend a lot of time on the road (well, duh!) and accumulate a lot more driving experience than most of the rest of us, but each of them still relies on one standard Mark I brain and it just isn't wired to carry on a conversation about something other than driving and simultaneously pay sufficient attention to everything that's going on on the road. Keeping up your side of a cell phone conversation is a new animal and completely different from even talking with somebody else in the car, because the person you're talking to on the phone has none of the on-the-spot clues that will cause them to notice what's happening in your driving situation. You pay attention differently when the other side of a conversation that has nothing to do with your driving is coming into your brain via an electronic device. That said, though, I don't see how the map reading, GPS adjusting, Timmy spilling, radio adjustring, makeup applying, breakfast cereal eating (yep, I've seen it!) distracted drivers aren't covered already by HTA RSO 1990, cH8, s130, "Careless Driving." We don't need new and possibly flawed laws to address situations that proven law already covers.
Bookm wrote:
This is gonna' irk a few readers here,... but, ya' know, I think the drive-thru line at the local Tim Horton's is one of the most dangerous systems out there..
Another "non-gadget" distraction I have seen on numerous occasion is map-reading while driving...
Oh! One more thing. They better exclude CB radios from the gadget definition list. Truckers would throw a fit. What I find strange is CB's never seem(ed) to cause a problem, but I see folks on cell phones absolutely "tuned-out" from their driving responsibilities. And yet, they're not all that different in function. Hmmmm
These are all good points, Bookm, though I suspect that truckers never *seem* to cause a problem when CB-ing partly because we other drivers usually can't see what the truck driver is actually doing in the cab at the moment when his or her vehicle does something odd on the highway (we're usually too busy just trying to get out of the way and stay alive). Truckers spend a lot of time on the road (well, duh!) and accumulate a lot more driving experience than most of the rest of us, but each of them still relies on one standard Mark I brain and it just isn't wired to carry on a conversation about something other than driving and simultaneously pay sufficient attention to everything that's going on on the road.
Keeping up your side of a cell phone conversation is a new animal and completely different from even talking with somebody else in the car, because the person you're talking to on the phone has none of the on-the-spot clues that will cause them to notice what's happening in your driving situation. You pay attention differently when the other side of a conversation that has nothing to do with your driving is coming into your brain via an electronic device.
That said, though, I don't see how the map reading, GPS adjusting, Timmy spilling, radio adjustring, makeup applying, breakfast cereal eating (yep, I've seen it!) distracted drivers aren't covered already by HTA RSO 1990, cH8, s130, "Careless Driving."
We don't need new and possibly flawed laws to address situations that proven law already covers.
Don't forget to light the smoke at the same time :wink:
Bookm wrote:
This is gonna' irk a few readers here,... but, ya' know, I think the drive-thru line at the local Tim Horton's is one of the most dangerous systems out there. Just try watching people trying to drive down the road immediately after leaving the exit. They're trying to pocket their change, get a quick sip of their coffee, and juggle whatever pastry delight caught their attention this time, all at the same time!!
Don't forget to light the smoke at the same time
Above is merely a suggestion/thought and in no way constitutes legal advice or views of my employer. www.OHTA.ca
Well, the policemen usually (I hope) radio (although this is using an electronic device) to base with the license plates, because I usually see policemen using their computers when quietly parked somewhere. How was your experience about that Mr. Bear?
casper wrote:
Oh and what about the police cars?, are they not full of electronic "gadgets" like radars,gps, cell phones and computers..go figure. A police chase is on and the officer is trying to input the licence plate of the vehicle ahead, how safe is that.??
Well, the policemen usually (I hope) radio (although this is using an electronic device) to base with the license plates, because I usually see policemen using their computers when quietly parked somewhere. How was your experience about that Mr. Bear?
"The more laws, the less justice" - Marcus Tullius Cicero
"The hardest thing to explain is the obvious"
Well, the policemen usually (I hope) radio (although this is using an electronic device) to base with the license plates, because I usually see policemen using their computers when quietly parked somewhere. How was your experience about that Mr. Bear? I'm not a bear ("our" Bear can speak very well for himself!), but I think the electronic stuff inside a police car is not our concern. These are the tools the officer was issued to do his or her job with, and that's that. Now, if he or she were driving while yakking on a private cell phone to a family member, or while playing with a GameBoy, that would be different! But I imagine that sort of thing would rarely happen -- like, never.
racer wrote:
casper wrote:
Oh and what about the police cars?, are they not full of electronic "gadgets" like radars,gps, cell phones and computers..go figure. A police chase is on and the officer is trying to input the licence plate of the vehicle ahead, how safe is that.??
Well, the policemen usually (I hope) radio (although this is using an electronic device) to base with the license plates, because I usually see policemen using their computers when quietly parked somewhere. How was your experience about that Mr. Bear?
I'm not a bear ("our" Bear can speak very well for himself!), but I think the electronic stuff inside a police car is not our concern. These are the tools the officer was issued to do his or her job with, and that's that. Now, if he or she were driving while yakking on a private cell phone to a family member, or while playing with a GameBoy, that would be different! But I imagine that sort of thing would rarely happen -- like, never.
I will be going to trial for my red light camera offence.
I'll be arguing two issues, centered on the fact that there are two essential elements of 144(18) - a) a vehicle approaching the intersection shall stop; and b) the vehicle shall not proceed until green. Both essential elements must be contravened beyond a reasonable doubt to be an offence.
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I recently was stopped for a RIDE Program and the officer asked me to roll the window down all of the way (I had it at half and could easily communicate with them). I told them that I could hear them just fine and they insisted I roll it down all of the way. Again I told…
Not sure the right place for this so if it needs to be moved please do so.
I was stopped today for 15 over the speed limit, I gave all the documents to the officer and he said he could not accept a photocopy of my ownership only the original I had a photo copy front and back and I had my plate sticker number with it.
he gave me a ticket for HWY ACT Section 7(5)(a) he said only the original would…
Hey! I'm from Sudbury Ontario. Hope that general talk is fine for this subject
I am very serious about looking for exact ruling about underfacing lighting
Section 14 clearly states:
Red and blue lights to the front restricted
(14.1) In addition to the lighting requirements in this Part, a police department vehicle may carry lamps that cast red and blue lights, but no other motor vehicle shall carry…
i was driving my dad's car when i was caught by the red light camera in Brampton. My dad would've to take time off work to go ask for a trial and then go to one.
Can i represent him? if yes, what do i need to do?
I was pulled over and told I went through a red light during a right turn. I learned through a friend who is a police constable that the one who pulled me over is new to the job (under a year, and possibly even the first month or two of real duty).
I was given a ticket for $180. I have some questions:
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I got a ticket for 'Disobey Stop Sign' in November of 2013 (in York Region), requested disclosure and went to court in August of 2014. At my first appearance, I did not plea but requested an ajournment to to consult legal advice. The JOP set the next appearance in September.
I contacted a paralegal about my options. He told me that on my next appearance, if the police officer did not show, the…
I had a trial and found guilty, but the trial seemed to go wrong since the beginning.
The JP asked me if i am intending to take the stand- I said NO.
I asked how to submit my evidence-documents and photos.
JP said-i have to take the stand if i want to submit evidence.(Now i am finding this is wrong-i could introduce my evidence during cross examination and my defense would be much stronger)
Ottawa, Canada (AHN) - Beginning Tuesday, or April Fool's Day 2008, fines on Quebec drivers caught overspeeding will be doubled. It is not only the money penalty that will go up, but also demerit points.
The new law, Bill 42, is similar to Ontario's street racing rule. It stipulates fines for motorists who drive at over 40 km/h at under 60 km/h zones, speed at 50 km/h at 60 to 90 km/h areas and…
Make big trucks go slower and the roads will become safer.
Obvious, isn't it? It's also obvious when you look out the window that the world is flat.
Last Monday, truckers in Ontario tried to mount a convoy to Queen's Park to show their opposition to electronic speed limiters. These devices, electronic chips in trucks' engine management systems, restrict speeds…
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Hey everyone first off I'd like to say great website, I have been reading and it is very useful
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I was told that if I go on court, both the guy I hit and the officer who…
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I can't find the category for this post so I'm posting it here.
Two questions...
1. Are golf carts considered a 'vehicle' under the Highway traffic act? I know carts can't drive across roads or on roads but if you try to bring one from the USA into Canada they are considered a 'vehicle'.
2. If you are on private property are you allowed to carry 'opened' alcohol in your golf cart? I know golf…
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I was driving westbound on Hwy. 8 earlier this month in North Dumfries Township, approaching the Cambridge city limits. The weather was clear and the roads were dry. I noticed a vehicle on the shoulder on my side of the road, pointing towards me. This didn't concern me right away, as it is a rural area and I sometimes see vehicles doing mail delivery. The vehicle then started accelerating and…
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who is at fault when :a) a passenger opens door and jumps out of vehicle onto the road with traffic. b) he gets hit by a car travelling in the adjoining lane. c) traffic lights were green. d) pedestrian crossing was further up and indicated "no crossing" light e) the vehicle that he exited from leaves the scene as soon as accident occurred. f) no charges have been laid after police filed report…
