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nailed with 144 km/h in a 100 zone, hwy 400
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2014 11:12 am 
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Hi All,

Hope that everyone is enjoying their long weekend.

A little advice is what brings me here.

On Friday evening, I was headed north on the 400. I'm sure as you can imagine this was a busy time to drive.

I was pulled over in a speed trap, the officer stated to me I was doing144 in a 100 zone . I didn't argue didn't say much. I was fairly shooken up.

What had happened is I ended up getting stuck in the left lane being tailegated by aggressive drivers and with a ton of cars in the right hand lane I had no way of getting into there.

I did not mention this to the officer as I was so raddled. He basically asked me how fast I was going I said I didn't know. He told me the speed, asked for licence and insurance. Came back with a ticket and in a matter of 5 minutes I was on my way.

So basically, I'm curious because I did not mention the safety issues related to my speed, will this some how go against me in court? because after the fact I wish I had mentioned it to him.

Also, when I set a trial date. Which I will have to call about on Tuesday as I do not know if I have to go into court to book my trial date in person or by mail. It doesn't say.

Also, under option #3 on the back of the ticket, it asks if I would like to have the officer attend court. What do I check? I do not know the evidence, so am I to make that choice at this point?

So I know the basics, ask for a disclosure immediately after trial date is set. But how do I find out who the Crown will be and where to send my registered mail request???

Any help, or pointers you all may have would be greatly appreciated.

How you all enjoy your long weekend, and drive safe!


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Re: nailed with 144 km/h in a 100 zone, hwy 400
PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2014 11:24 am 
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Posts: 7
Also, if I may add to this.

I'm up for renewal September 17th, and have already received my new premium and insurance card. Would this impact my premium for this renawal or my next.

I am with Intact Ins.

Also, I just want to be clear that when I do go to court I plan on making the argument that I was traveling at that speed for safety reason due to the line of aggressive drivers behind me and the lack of being able to get out of their way.

Thanks again!


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Re: nailed with 144 km/h in a 100 zone, hwy 400
PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2014 7:44 pm 
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Location: Toronto
Your insurance is not affected until you are convicted/plead guilty. So don't worry about that for now.

Your defence about having a line of aggressive drivers behind you isn't likely to work in court. The Prosecutor will argue that you should not have entered the passing lane to begin with, especially if it was full of aggressive drivers. Even if the lane was clear to begin with, the court will not believe that there was no option for you to move out of the way, and will not accept that it was necessary for you to accelerate to 44 km/h over the limit in order to be safe. This defence gets tried over and over, and only is successful once in a blue moon. I personally have never seen it work. Ironically, if you had been charged with stunt driving by going more than 50 km/h over the limit, your "defence" may be more likely to succeed.

The officer does not care what your reason for speeding is. They only are there to charge you. The court is where your defence can be heard. Not mentioning your reason for speeding to the officer will have no effect.

Best thing to do is send in the ticket pleading not guilty, and arrange for a trial. Obtain disclosure of the evidence against you and see if there were any omissions or errors in the officer's notes, or if it takes too long for it to go to trial. If none of that works, you can always try to plea-bargain to a lesser speed.

_________________
* The above is NOT legal advice. By acting on anything I have said, you assume responsibility for any outcome and consequences. *
http://www.OntarioTicket.com OR http://www.OHTA.ca


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Re: nailed with 144 km/h in a 100 zone, hwy 400
PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2014 8:10 pm 
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Thank you for the reply.

I'm sure this is used many times, only this is what actually happened in my case. Unfortunately, it more than likely will no work out for me.

So basically the process is I check option #3, do I also check the option to have the officer there?

Also, no matter where I look I cannot find the information on how the plea would work. Do I just appear for my court date and look ffor the crown and ask for a plea deal?? Or should I have the chance to do this before iI attend court for the trial.

Furthermore, how do I find out who the crown is for this case to request disclosure??

From everyone I've been speaking to they are telling me that at 44 over the limit I am more or less doomed. In addition they are telling me that I will probably be on the hook for the court cost for this to go to trial as well. Are they correct in your opinion??

Thank you again. I am much appreciative.


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Re: nailed with 144 km/h in a 100 zone, hwy 400
PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 3:18 am 
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You should check the box saying that you want the officer to attend. This will meen that the officer has to take the witness stand and testify. That will give you a chance to ask him questions and poke holes in his testimony if you take this to trial. It also means that if the officer fails to show up your ticket will very likely be withdrawn. For plea bargaining some jurisdictions hold early resolution meetings where you can book an appointment with the prosecutor to discuss the matter. Howevwr, even if the jurisdiction where you were ticketed does not do this, you can always talk to the prosecutor on the day of your trial. The address to send your disclosure request to should be on the notice of trial that the court will send you telling you when your court date is. You can also check the issuing jurisdiction's website, some areas have a form for requesting disclosure.


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Re: nailed with 144 km/h in a 100 zone, hwy 400
PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 8:06 pm 
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Please keep all your questions related to this offence in one-topic, do not open multiple threads.

topic2871.html

There are no extra "court costs" associated with choosing trial. Everyone pays the same +$5 whether they choose trial or not.


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Re: nailed with 144 km/h in a 100 zone, hwy 400
PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 8:29 pm 
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I apologize. Thank you.

The reason I asked is because few people have told me that if you try to dispute your fine in court and you are found guilty, you are to pay court fee's i.e. JPs time, crowns time.


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Re: nailed with 144 km/h in a 100 zone, hwy 400
PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 9:27 pm 
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Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2010 8:08 pm
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civil_driver wrote:
I apologize. Thank you.

The reason I asked is because few people have told me that if you try to dispute your fine in court and you are found guilty, you are to pay court fee's i.e. JPs time, crowns time.
That is not true, you do not pay for anyone's time. The only difference is that your speeding set fine will be higher if you're found guilty after a full-blown trial, only because they use a different table.

Out of court fines: http://www.ontariocourts.ca/ocj/how-do- ... hedule-43/
Quote:
Kilometres c) 30-49 kilometres per hour over the maximum speed limit
Set Fine $6.00 per kilometre
Found guilty after trial fine: http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/statut ... .htm#BK198
Quote:
Penalty
(14) Every person who contravenes this section or any by-law or regulation made under this section is guilty of an offence and on conviction is liable, where the rate of speed at which the motor vehicle was driven,

(c) is 30 kilometres per hour or more but less than 50 kilometres per hour over the speed limit, to a fine of $7 for each kilometre per hour that the motor vehicle was driven over the speed limit;
Right now on your ticket the set fine is $264 with a total payable of +$60 (victim surcharge) +$5 (court fee) = $329

If you were found guilty after a trial, you would have a set fine of $308 and a total payable of + $75 (victim surcharge) +$5 (court fee) = $388

Victim Surcharge: http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/regs/e ... 0161_e.htm
Court Costs: http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/regs/e ... 0945_e.htm


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Re: nailed with 144 km/h in a 100 zone, hwy 400
PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 9:49 pm 
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Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2014 10:52 am
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Once again, thank you very much.

I'm passing Parry Sound tomorrow and will be stopping in to get all my "ducks in a row" and pick option #3. Do I wait until after I get my trial date in the mail, that I track down the Crown and seek disclosure??

I'm curious what the officer has for notes. Wouldn't let me speak so I'm assuming not much.

And with the possible price of $59 over my original fine, to go to bat in court and reduce this thing I'll gladly pay it.


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Re: nailed with 144 km/h in a 100 zone, hwy 400
PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 10:43 pm 
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Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2010 8:08 pm
Posts: 550
The reason you have to wait for your 'Notice of Trial' is because the crown will not accept disclosure requests w/o a trial date on it. You can use this sample form: topic2959.html

The crown may have their own form, I suggest not to use their form. It's completely useless, and doesn't allow you to request for typed notes (if it's not legible) and the speed device's manual. It also makes it harder to argue later in court you wanted items x, y and z with their generic form.

_________________________________________

The officer's notes will have information regarding the testing/use of his speed measuring device. He may also have info regarding how he made your traffic stop.

There are a lot of scenarios where the charges could be withdrawn: officer forgets to take notes (emergency), officer no-show at trial, crown fails to provide notes + officer forgets notes at trial, 11b Stay (date of actual trial is +11mths), depending on what's actually written in his notes regarding the testing/use.

Ultimately, we request disclosure in the hopes we don't actually get it. If we do get, pray that there are mistakes. If all the stars-align, officer's notes give the crown a guaranteed prospect for a conviction, officer is present w/ notes... then you'll have to think about cutting a deal with the crown. But again, it's just giving you more opportunities to make use of the crown/court's resources and making sure they're accountable.


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