Hey everyone. Back last summer I got a parking ticket for being within 3m of a fire hydrant. Funny thing is, I parked (in my estimation) at least far enough away from it, deliberately. There were no markings on the pavement but I can't believe I was within 10 feet of that thing (sorry I suck at metric.) It's only $20 but I was ticked off 'cause I don't park in front of fire hydrants and don't appreciate being told that I do. I requested a trial. It came, and the court ran out of time before they got to me so it got adjourned. Then I requested disclosure. I just got it today. This disclosure I got was a photocopy of the front of the ticket (thanks guys, i didn't have that already), a blurry blank page labeled "back of ticket", and a photocopy of the officer's notes. The text of the actual bylaw was not included, nor anything tying the licence plate to me. Just the notes and the front of the ticket. So, is this inadequate disclosure? If so, what is the procedure for arguing this? Do I simply verbally request a stay before the trial starts, or do I have to file forms? The trial is in about 12 days. Also, if I don't request a stay and go through with the trial, and the crown tries to bring into evidence something they didn't disclose (the bylaw or ownership for example) then can I object or something and have that evidence thrown out? I'm willing to put the time into this. The officer's notes really irritated me - the officer claimed I was less than 0.5 meters from the fire hydrant. Had he said 9 feet, I may have doubted myself and just paid the fine, but half a meter is a blatant lie and also silly: I would actually have to gone out of my way and parked several feet further from my destination, in order to be 0.5 meters from that hydrant! Well, thanks for any advice you guys can give!
Hey everyone. Back last summer I got a parking ticket for being within 3m of a fire hydrant. Funny thing is, I parked (in my estimation) at least far enough away from it, deliberately. There were no markings on the pavement but I can't believe I was within 10 feet of that thing (sorry I suck at metric.)
It's only $20 but I was ticked off 'cause I don't park in front of fire hydrants and don't appreciate being told that I do. I requested a trial. It came, and the court ran out of time before they got to me so it got adjourned. Then I requested disclosure. I just got it today.
This disclosure I got was a photocopy of the front of the ticket (thanks guys, i didn't have that already), a blurry blank page labeled "back of ticket", and a photocopy of the officer's notes. The text of the actual bylaw was not included, nor anything tying the licence plate to me. Just the notes and the front of the ticket.
So, is this inadequate disclosure? If so, what is the procedure for arguing this? Do I simply verbally request a stay before the trial starts, or do I have to file forms? The trial is in about 12 days. Also, if I don't request a stay and go through with the trial, and the crown tries to bring into evidence something they didn't disclose (the bylaw or ownership for example) then can I object or something and have that evidence thrown out?
I'm willing to put the time into this. The officer's notes really irritated me - the officer claimed I was less than 0.5 meters from the fire hydrant. Had he said 9 feet, I may have doubted myself and just paid the fine, but half a meter is a blatant lie and also silly: I would actually have to gone out of my way and parked several feet further from my destination, in order to be 0.5 meters from that hydrant!
Ok I know it's just $20 but with two days off work already and gas (court is in another city) I'm sure I'm down $400 by now. But I decided to fight this and I want to do it as best as I can. Let's just pretend its a $2500 fine. In my opinion this is like taking a black eye because it's more honorable than simply handing lunch money over to the bully because he is bigger. I realized today that I probably should have posted this in the "procedure" section of the site. Any way I can move it? The value of the ticket aside, I just want to know about procedure. Can the prosecution introduce into evidence something they have not disclosed? What stands out as missing to me is the certified form connecting the licence plate to me, and also the text of the bylaw. Also as I looked over the officer's notes more I found 2 issues. The first has to do with the claim I was 1/2 meter from the hydrant. The notes say that there were two vehicles blocking the hydrant. Now, the area is driveway, long patch of lawn, hydrant, short patch of lawn, driveway. I was parked in front of the long patch of lawn. Unless the other car was really really short, there is no possible way I was 1/2 meter from the hydrant. Given normal-sized cars the only way to park two on that section of street without blocking driveways is one directly in front of the hydrant, and one behind that one (therefore several feet away from the hydrant at minimum. I recognize that this information is probably useless in my defense so I'm mostly just venting here. The second inconsistency is that the notes say he was there at 4:40 while the time of offense is listed at 5:00. There are no notes about this mysterious second car that was blocking the hydrant (that car probably didn't have an out-of-town plate!) so I assume he didn't write a ticket for it and just spent 20 minutes writing mine?
Ok I know it's just $20 but with two days off work already and gas (court is in another city) I'm sure I'm down $400 by now.
But I decided to fight this and I want to do it as best as I can. Let's just pretend its a $2500 fine. In my opinion this is like taking a black eye because it's more honorable than simply handing lunch money over to the bully because he is bigger.
I realized today that I probably should have posted this in the "procedure" section of the site. Any way I can move it?
The value of the ticket aside, I just want to know about procedure. Can the prosecution introduce into evidence something they have not disclosed?
What stands out as missing to me is the certified form connecting the licence plate to me, and also the text of the bylaw.
Also as I looked over the officer's notes more I found 2 issues. The first has to do with the claim I was 1/2 meter from the hydrant. The notes say that there were two vehicles blocking the hydrant. Now, the area is driveway, long patch of lawn, hydrant, short patch of lawn, driveway. I was parked in front of the long patch of lawn. Unless the other car was really really short, there is no possible way I was 1/2 meter from the hydrant. Given normal-sized cars the only way to park two on that section of street without blocking driveways is one directly in front of the hydrant, and one behind that one (therefore several feet away from the hydrant at minimum. I recognize that this information is probably useless in my defense so I'm mostly just venting here.
The second inconsistency is that the notes say he was there at 4:40 while the time of offense is listed at 5:00. There are no notes about this mysterious second car that was blocking the hydrant (that car probably didn't have an out-of-town plate!) so I assume he didn't write a ticket for it and just spent 20 minutes writing mine?
Ok, but I bet after at least two trial dates (the cop stuck in court for 2 mornings) and being bothered for disclosure over a $20 parking fine they damn well won't give me a future ticket that I don't deserve! It's really not about the $20. Maybe I'll lose the trial and be found guilty... I don't care. But there is no way in hell that I'll ever plead guilty to parking in front of that hydrant! If it ends up that the cop is on the stand I'm asking him every little detail I can until the JP tells me to shut up or the court runs out of time, and maybe next time he won't go around tossing $20 fines on people's windshields and making up BS notes and thinking no one will ever challenge him on it.
Ok, but I bet after at least two trial dates (the cop stuck in court for 2 mornings) and being bothered for disclosure over a $20 parking fine they damn well won't give me a future ticket that I don't deserve!
It's really not about the $20. Maybe I'll lose the trial and be found guilty... I don't care. But there is no way in hell that I'll ever plead guilty to parking in front of that hydrant! If it ends up that the cop is on the stand I'm asking him every little detail I can until the JP tells me to shut up or the court runs out of time, and maybe next time he won't go around tossing $20 fines on people's windshields and making up BS notes and thinking no one will ever challenge him on it.
I am with you on this one. But it is no skin off their ass if you challenge it. Ask for the by-law in dis-closer. I have at least 10 requests for trial over the last 5 years and no response from any of them. Last time I was at the parking ticket office I asked for (and got) a stack of those forms to fight them. Parking ticket is maybe the easiest to beat. Cheers Viper1
JohnnyKickass wrote:
Ok, but I bet after at least two trial dates (the cop stuck in court for 2 mornings) and being bothered for disclosure over a $20 parking fine they damn well won't give me a future ticket that I don't deserve!
It's really not about the $20. Maybe I'll lose the trial and be found guilty... I don't care. But there is no way in hell that I'll ever plead guilty to parking in front of that hydrant! If it ends up that the cop is on the stand I'm asking him every little detail I can until the JP tells me to shut up or the court runs out of time, and maybe next time he won't go around tossing $20 fines on people's windshields and making up BS notes and thinking no one will ever challenge him on it.
I am with you on this one.
But it is no skin off their ass if you challenge it.
Ask for the by-law in dis-closer.
I have at least 10 requests for trial over the last 5 years and no response from any of them.
Last time I was at the parking ticket office I asked for (and got) a stack of those forms to fight them.
Parking ticket is maybe the easiest to beat.
Cheers
Viper1
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Well it's all over. I showed up, the cop didn't. It's very disappointing as I wanted him on the stand, I still have no clue as to his motivation for giving me the ticket. I planned on drilling him for a while then at the end just pointing out they had not proven the bylaw exists or that I was the registered owner. Oh well. I'll say one thing, Brantford has a really hot bailiff!
Well it's all over.
I showed up, the cop didn't. It's very disappointing as I wanted him on the stand, I still have no clue as to his motivation for giving me the ticket. I planned on drilling him for a while then at the end just pointing out they had not proven the bylaw exists or that I was the registered owner.
Oh well.
I'll say one thing, Brantford has a really hot bailiff!
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