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Black Thursday! I got 3 tickets in one trip!
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 10:03 pm 
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I went to Huntsville for buying a horse trailer in Thursday.

Got 1 ticket of careless driving nearby east gate of Algonquin Park. They police said he received a complaint that my pickup truck hit the road shoulder and disturbed some gravel dust.

I found a police car traced me, so I turn to a roadside motel. After I parked my vehicle, and heading to motel office, the police car arrived gently without turned on flashlight and siren, he yelled me walk back to talk with him. He gave me the ticket with $326 fine in motel based on a driver complaint.

After I bought the trailer, I was heading Ottawa home. Nearby Eganville, another police car stopped me, the police said he come with a witness, the witness driver followed me some distance, and found my vehicle touch the road shoulder, some dust made the driver uncomfortable.

After the witness driver drove his car away, the police checked my vehicle carefully, then gave me another careless driving ticket, and a ticket that says I failed to get my licence plate for the trailer after I bought it. Even the police impounded my pickup truck and trailer, and no paper work to let me sign! I had to call a taxi for going home at midnight!

Today, 6 days later, I called the police to inquiry when they can release my vehicles. They said they need inspect the vehicle for safety and considering charge me G driver licence not fit to the vehicle. They said driving a F250 pickup truck and empty trailer need AZ driver licence. Now my vehicle not parked in government compound yard, but sitting in the towing company yard.

That was really a black Thursday! Anybody can offer me any idea to fight the ticket?

Is it legal to impound my vehicle without any formal notice or paper work to let me sign?

Thanks, everyone!


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Re: Black Thursday! I got 3 tickets in one trip!
PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 10:02 am 
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Location: In YOUR rearview mirror!
sounds like as soon as you added the trailer it now fits into the CMV category (commercial motor vehicle), thus without annual safeties on both truck and trailer, the plates can be seized and vehicle towed to compound. Further requires proper licencing which, pending what weight the combination is might require a D or A, would not enable a G licence to drive the combination. Then add in that it most likely needs a CVOR (commercial vehicle operators registration), otherwise the vehicle can not be driven on the road without one.

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Above is merely a suggestion/thought and in no way constitutes legal advice or views of my employer. www.OHTA.ca


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Re: Black Thursday! I got 3 tickets in one trip!
PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 12:27 pm 
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For the first careless driving charge, i would get the charges dropped on "hearsay".
For the second one, depending on disclosure, the witness might not want to show up in court, so you could use the same defense. if not, your word against his, and if its a strict liability, just create a benefit of the doubt that you have done everything to avoid doing so, etc.
For the other charge, I think you already have a farmer's plate right?

check the weights of truck and trailer:

Quote:
arm Truck and Trailer Rules
Driver Licences
HTA 32, 37, Reg. 340/94

The following describes the types of trucks that drivers with a Class G1, G2, G, D or A driver's licence may operate. Truck includes a pickup truck.

For a complete list of the Driver's Licence Classes, see Regulation 340/94 (Driver Licences) under the HTA.

Class "G" licence holders can drive:

a truck, whether towing a vehicle or not, having a registered gross weight of 11,000 kg (24,250 lbs.) or less,
a single truck or a combination of truck and towed vehicle(s) with an actual weight of 11,000 kg (24,250 lbs.) or less, provided the weight transmitted to the road by the axles of the towed vehicle(s), when attached to the truck, does not exceed 4,600 kg (10,141 lbs). Towed vehicle(s) includes trailers, farm implements and wagons.

Class "D" licence holders can drive:

a truck, whether towing a vehicle or not, having a registered gross weight exceeding 11,000 kg (24,250 lbs.),
a single truck or a combination of truck and towed vehicle(s) with an actual weight exceeding 11,000 kg (24,250 lbs.), provided the weight transmitted to the road by the axles of the towed vehicle(s), when attached to the truck, does not exceed 4,600 kg (10,141 lb). Towed vehicle(s) includes trailers, farm implements and wagons.

Class "A" licence holders can drive:

A combination of truck and towed vehicle(s), when the axles of the towed vehicle(s), when attached to the truck, transmit more than 4,600 kg (10,141 lbs.) to the road. Towed vehicle(s) includes trailer, farm implements and wagons.

A Class "G" driver may drive a Class "D" farm plated truck or a farm plated combination if the truck or combination is being used for the farmer's personal transportation or used for the transportation of farm products, supplies or equipment without compensation to or from a farm. See Licence plates - farm equipment in the "Farm Equipment Rules" section for farm plate conditions.

A G2 driver may drive a Class "D" farm plated truck or a Class "D" farm plated combination, provided the truck is not being used for-hire and the truck and towed vehicle are not equipped with air brakes

A G1 driver is not permitted to drive a Class "D" farm plated truck or any truck or towed vehicle with air brakes.

A "Z" Endorsement is required on a driver's licence when driving an air braked truck or towing an air braked trailer with a truck. This includes farm plated trucks. A "Z" Endorsement is not required when operating air braked farm tractors, SPIH, or towed implements.


if you do not have farmer's plate, here :

Quote:
Licence Change for Operators of Recreational Vehicles

Effective July 1, 2011, you may now tow a Recreational Vehicle (RV) weighing more than 4,600 kg with a Class “G” driver’s licence if:

The towing vehicle is a pick-up truck equipped with the manufacturer’s original box, with a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) not exceeding 6,000 kg and equipped with no more than two axles and not being used for commercial purposes;
Combined weight of pick-up truck and RV does not exceed 11,000 kg total gross weight;
RV hitched to pick-up truck by means of a fifth wheel hitch assembly;
Only one towed vehicle in combination;
Pick-up truck and RV not equipped with air-brakes;
RV (towed RV) Transport Canada compliant and manufactured to CSA Z-240 or Recreation Vehicle Industry Association (of America) standards;
Floor space of RV is primarily living accommodations;
Operated by holder of full class G driver licence – holders of a graduated licence in the class G1 or G2 not eligible;
Compliant with all other Highway Traffic Act weights and dimensions requirements; and,
No other type of towed vehicle is eligible for this proposal.


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Re: Black Thursday! I got 3 tickets in one trip!
PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 1:02 pm 
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What i meant by "hear say" is part of the rules ovf evidence: The cop cannot relate any information that was said by someone else. That is called hearsay and is inadmissible. So when the cop is reading his notes, assuming he is there, you stand-up and say "objection! Hearsay!" Then he has no evidence to prosecute.

If the witness shows up in the second careless driving charge, which you would know beforehand when you requested the disclosure, he cannot give opinions, he has to prove what he is saying with facts, otherwise, say objection -"unsubstantiated opinion".

And if he shows up and it wasnt in the disclosure (they should provide you his name and contact information so you can interview him beforehand, request and adjournment because they failed to provide complete disclosure and you will require more time to build your defense. maybe he wont even show up the next time too. also you make sure to prepare questions in advance that will make him unsure or that it was probable that it didnt exactly happen that way, etc. create doubt. For example, to mine his credibility,. test his memory with simple facts as to what was the brand of vehicule, trailer, color, writings on trailer, were you wearing a hat, what color was your shirt, he wont remember.

and aif the trailer is under 4600kg, and truck + trailer under 11,000kg, you're good to tow:

Quote:
Any car, van or small truck or combination of vehicle and towed vehicle up to 11,000 kg provided the towed vehicle is not over 4,600 kg, but not,

a motorcycle or motor assisted bicycle;
a bus carrying passengers; or
an ambulance in the course of providing ambulance service as defined in the Ambulance Act.


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Re: Black Thursday! I got 3 tickets in one trip!
PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 8:32 pm 
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Location: In YOUR rearview mirror!
Julio wrote:
For the other charge, I think you already have a farmer's plate right?

none of the farm exemptions apply when you have 4 axles or more (truck has 2 axles, add trailer, horse trailers typically are 2 axles = 4 axle combination)

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Above is merely a suggestion/thought and in no way constitutes legal advice or views of my employer. www.OHTA.ca


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Re: Black Thursday! I got 3 tickets in one trip!
PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 8:23 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2011 11:10 am
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hwybear wrote:
none of the farm exemptions apply when you have 4 axles or more


So why does it say: "Towed vehicle(s) includes trailers, farm implements and wagons." in the HTA 32, 37, Reg. 340/94 quoted above?

A wagon has two axles so with a pickup or tractor you are at 4 axles. When would you ever have less than 4 axles when pulling a wagon?


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Re: Black Thursday! I got 3 tickets in one trip!
PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 9:06 am 
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Thats very confusing, and if he says he had taken the weight in consideration too, like any reasonable person would do, he wasnt doing any offence in his right mind, but legal help would be advisable for this charge. Also considering the time he lost, the costs of taxi, tow, impound, i think the lesson is learned.


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Re: Black Thursday! I got 3 tickets in one trip!
PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 1:05 pm 
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Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2012 9:18 pm
Posts: 2
The police released my vehicles now after 7 days. no more driver license class unfit charge. During impoundment, the police inspected my vehicle, and told me my 2 axles trailer one tire flat, and suggested that unstable towing may happen. So release conditioned on flatbed transportation to my home. Maybe police changed opinion on careless charge.


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