Hello all,

After doing quite a bit of research, I stumbled across this forum and thought it would be a good idea to get some opinions about the situation that I currently find myself in. Hopefully some of you may have experienced this in the past and can provide me with some guidance for the best course of action. Thank you in advance for all your help. I greatly appreciate it.

So here's what happened.

On a Friday night in January of 2010 at around 2:00 AM I was leaving my friend's house in Downtown Toronto. I was driving eastbound on Dundas St. approaching Yonge. I unknowingly made a left turn on Yonge St. to proceed southbound contrary to the "No Left Turn" signs posted above the traffic lights at this intersection. This was an honest mistake because I completely missed the sign (had I known, I would have never proceeded with the turn). Nonetheless, it was a snowy night with poor visibility (I have a weather report that confirms this) and most of the traffic lights and signs for that matter were covered with quite a bit of snow.

I got pulled over a couple of blocks later and received a ticket under the OHTA - Proceed Contrary to Sign at Intersection under the Highway Traffic Act, section 144 (9). I have a clean driving record and have never been in trouble with the law before. This was a completely unintentional mistake that I honestly made. After all, it was late at night, the intersection was COMPLETELY empty, visibility was poor, and at 2:00 AM, I was just trying to get home and go to sleep.

Anyways, as of now, I have chosen to take this ticket to trial (still haven't received a trial date yet). Upon receiving a trial date I plan on requesting full disclosure so that I know what evidence the crown has. If possible, I wish to also argue under the Charter of Rights & Freedoms under Sect. 11B and uphold my right of a fair and quick trial (if this process exceeds 10 months I believe, that this right would be violated. Not sure on this though).

The best possible scenario for me is to completely beat this ticket (or have it dropped) so that my insurance does not take a hit. Therefore, my question for you all is what are the chances of me beating this ticket? Is there anything I can do that would increase the probability of me winning? Any advice, tips, hints? Any help would be appreciated it. Put your lawyer hats on guys! Haha, just kidding! Thanks again to all!

P.S. Sorry for the long post.

I'm sure you would like to get the ticket dropped completely, most people would. However, I'm not sure if there's anything in your post that makes this likely. I don't think 10 months in Toronto is unreasonable. You might have an argument about the sign not being visible, if you can prove that somehow.

Good luck

Thanks for your reply Simon!

Yeah, I know it was completely my fault, but it really was an honest mistake...

The weather report that I printed indicates that it had been snowing that night, however I do not have any pictures that show the sign covered with snow, therefore this may be difficult for me to prove. Worth a shot I guess.

If anything, I am hoping to fight under 11 B if they fail to provide disclosure adequately and promptly and/or if the officer isn't present at the time of the trial. At the very least, a reduction to a by-law infraction (where my demerit points aren't influenced) would be satisfactory for me. I would have no problem paying the money, it's the points that I am concerned about!

Thanks though!

You're welcome. Just be aware that by-laws involving prohibiting turns carry 2 demerit points as well.

I would have no problem paying the money, it's the points that I am concerned about!

My guess you are under impression that points affect your insurance rates..... I suggest you do some research to find that it is not the case. It is a biggest myth that demerit points affect your insurance premiums. Instead it is a "conviction" on your record that does that (regardless if demerit points are attached to the offence or not).

This may change your approach to this situation altogether. Good luck.

No, I know that it is convictions and not points that affect your insurance rates. But if obviously if I get convicted then it also influences my points. What I meant by the statement that you quoted was I don't care how much I have to pay (reasonably of course) I just don't want a guilty conviction that would affect my insurance.

Try plea-bargaining to a municipal by-law infraction if you want to avoid the insurance issue... If you ask for a municipal "disobey sign" infraction, that would not have points, as well...

Hey Radar,

Thanks a lot for the advice! I will definitely try to plea bargain to a disobey sign infraction. However, I had a few questions about this.

1) When would I do this? At a pre-trail conference, on the day of the trail, in the trial itself? Also what's the best method of trying to plea-bargain to something like this?

2) What are the chances of the crown actually doing this? I mean after all I did commit the offense... Would they only do this if they feel as if they don't have enough evidence to convict me? In other words, how likely is this outcome for me?

3) Should I wait to receive disclosure before I try to plea-bargain with the crown? And if they do not provide disclosure, should I even bother bargaining?

Thank you very much in advance! Your help is really appreciated!

all the questions manix_07 has asked apply to me as I am in the same scenario, same intersection. does anyone have any answers as to how to go about this other then: disclosure, and 11b

manix_07 have you got any answers from Radar Identified?