False tickets issued when legally turning right on red at bronson and carling. The Carling and Bronson red light camera at this intersection is falsely issuing tickets to vehicles turning right on red based on the assumption that, while approaching the intersection, if you are traveling 25km/hr you will not stop at the light and there for run a red light. I did make a complete stop at the white line intersection, and then proceeded turning right. In the first picture that I was issued shows my vehicle before the white line with my brake lights on. The second picture my car is not in the picture, so they assume that I could not stop my vehicle in 8 feet prior to the intersection while traveling at 25 km/hr. All vehicles are capable of coming to a complete stop within 8 feet approximately traveling 25 km/hr (15 miles/hr). I always approach the intersection reducing speed and approximately 8 feet from the intersection traveling 25 km/hr (15 miles/hr) I am able to stop my car safely before the white line. I may be a lead foot but I do not break the law. The system measures the speed of your vehicle approaching the white line approximately 8 feet before the white line, and the system only activates if the light is red, that is why it records the speed way before the white line, presuming that you will cross the red light. So on the second picture my vehicle is no longer visible. The two pictures clearly do not show my vehicle breaking the law. Based only on the speed of my vehicle approaching the white line is why I was issued a ticket. I was denied any opportunity to explain my defense as I have done here, and I will see about appealing this ruling. The Judge literally stopped me from explaining why this ticket was false. As I began to explain he interrupted me, and said any other evidence, before i could even finish three words. I said you have to give me the right to a defense and let me explain why.....and again cut me off and told me to stand and read that i was guilty and how much time do need to pay. So i pleaded again my right to a defense and literally evicted me from the court room. I do not believe i will win this case for the simple reason that they, the courts do not know how the system works and will not admit to this fact. They will read the statement saying the system was working in perfect condition upon issuing this ticket end of statement, even without any proof in the pictures of a traffic violation The only other recourse i have is to test the system with witnesses present and video tape the test showing a vehicle approaching the red light over 25km/hr and make a full stop at the red light and turn right quickly after. The first picture will show the speed and the vehicle at the white line ( like in my case) then the second picture will not show any vehicle. But only based on the speed of the first picture they will assume you ran the red light. They assume that you had no intention to stop approaching the intersection at 25km/hr. But with the witnesses and video tape will clearly show that no traffic laws were broken. I will of course be issued a ticket and hope the court will allow my evidence. One way of fixing this problem would be to install no right turn signs at intersection with red light cameras. This would eliminate unfair issuing of tickets for legally turning right on red.
False tickets issued when legally turning right on red at bronson and carling.
The Carling and Bronson red light camera at this intersection is falsely issuing tickets to vehicles turning right on red based on the assumption that, while approaching the intersection, if you are traveling 25km/hr you will not stop at the light and there for run a red light. I did make a complete stop at the white line intersection, and then proceeded turning right. In the first picture that I was issued shows my vehicle before the white line with my brake lights on. The second picture my car is not in the picture, so they assume that I could not stop my vehicle in 8 feet prior to the intersection while traveling at 25 km/hr. All vehicles are capable of coming to a complete stop within 8 feet approximately traveling 25 km/hr (15 miles/hr). I always approach the intersection reducing speed and approximately 8 feet from the intersection traveling 25 km/hr (15 miles/hr) I am able to stop my car safely before the white line. I may be a lead foot but I do not break the law.
The system measures the speed of your vehicle approaching the white line approximately 8 feet before the white line, and the system only activates if the light is red, that is why it records the speed way before the white line, presuming that you will cross the red light. So on the second picture my vehicle is no longer visible. The two pictures clearly do not show my vehicle breaking the law. Based only on the speed of my vehicle approaching the white line is why I was issued a ticket. I was denied any opportunity to explain my defense as I have done here, and I will see about appealing this ruling.
The Judge literally stopped me from explaining why this ticket was false. As I began to explain he interrupted me, and said any other evidence, before i could even finish three words. I said you have to give me the right to a defense and let me explain why.....and again cut me off and told me to stand and read that i was guilty and how much time do need to pay. So i pleaded again my right to a defense and literally evicted me from the court room.
I do not believe i will win this case for the simple reason that they, the courts do not know how the system works and will not admit to this fact. They will read the statement saying the system was working in perfect condition upon issuing this ticket end of statement, even without any proof in the pictures of a traffic violation The only other recourse i have is to test the system with witnesses present and video tape the test showing a vehicle approaching the red light over 25km/hr and make a full stop at the red light and turn right quickly after. The first picture will show the speed and the vehicle at the white line ( like in my case) then the second picture will not show any vehicle. But only based on the speed of the first picture they will assume you ran the red light. They assume that you had no intention to stop approaching the intersection at 25km/hr. But with the witnesses and video tape will clearly show that no traffic laws were broken. I will of course be issued a ticket and hope the court will allow my evidence.
One way of fixing this problem would be to install no right turn signs at intersection with red light cameras. This would eliminate unfair issuing of tickets for legally turning right on red.
conversion calculator to proper units of measure http://www.worldwidemetric.com/measurements.html Stopping distance calculator http://www.forensicdynamics.com/stopdistcalc - dry surface = 3.51m to stop at 25km/hr http://www.rotr.ie/rules-for-driving/sp ... -cars.html Just saying a lot of factors to consider before saying all vehicles can stop in 2.4m
labmichael wrote:
All vehicles are capable of coming to a complete stop within 8 feet approximately traveling 25 km/hr (15 miles/hr). I always approach the intersection reducing speed and approximately 8 feet from the intersection traveling 25 km/hr (15 miles/hr).
I thank you for the respond. I believe all people should take responsibility when driving any vehicle and pay any fines if breaking the law. The key words if breaking the law. I notice you did not comment on why I posted hear in the first place. The in justice of tickets being issued to people who have not broken any traffic laws. As for the speed to stop standard that you have posted is what they recommend. But real situation driving like bumper to bumper traffic 4 feet distance between vehicles is usually traveling at approx. 25 km/hr-15mile/hr can stop within 3 feet. If this was not true we would have 1000's of bumper accidents a day especially in Montreal. Based only on assumptions not facts the bronson and carling redlight camera is ticketing legal right turns on red based on speed of vehicle approaching the intersection. Even when the pictures do not show any traffic violations. Put a no right turn on red sign at red light cameras and this will stop the money grab of innocent drivers once and for all. I will never turn right on red at any red light camera intersection again. Just a note that I have been driving since 1983 without one accident.
I thank you for the respond.
I believe all people should take responsibility when driving any vehicle and pay any fines if breaking the law. The key words if breaking the law. I notice you did not comment on why I posted hear in the first place. The in justice of tickets being issued to people who have not broken any traffic laws. As for the speed to stop standard that you have posted is what they recommend. But real situation driving like bumper to bumper traffic 4 feet distance between vehicles is usually traveling at approx. 25 km/hr-15mile/hr can stop within 3 feet. If this was not true we would have 1000's of bumper accidents a day especially in Montreal.
Based only on assumptions not facts the bronson and carling redlight camera is ticketing legal right turns on red based on speed of vehicle approaching the intersection. Even when the pictures do not show any traffic violations.
Put a no right turn on red sign at red light cameras and this will stop the money grab of innocent drivers once and for all. I will never turn right on red at any red light camera intersection again. Just a note that I have been driving since 1983 without one accident.
Here is a video link showing the stopping distance of a vehicle going 30miles/hr, 50mile/hr and 70mile/hr in this (GEM Motoring Assist guide to motorway stopping distances). Notice at 3:20 in the video showing 30Mile/hr = 50km/hr how fast the vehicle does stop. please do not delete this as you deleted my response from the other thread. Just proving my case that the recommend stop distance is not factual but should still be used if you are not an every day defensive driver and hesitate for every action. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CzHklqaiTXI
Here is a video link showing the stopping distance of a vehicle going 30miles/hr, 50mile/hr and 70mile/hr in this (GEM Motoring Assist guide to motorway stopping distances). Notice at 3:20 in the video showing 30Mile/hr = 50km/hr how fast the vehicle does stop. please do not delete this as you deleted my response from the other thread. Just proving my case that the recommend stop distance is not factual but should still be used if you are not an every day defensive driver and hesitate for every action.
Your other thread was deleted because it violated forum rules. For the sake of users please use metric as it has been the unit of measure for traffic since 1977. I did not comment directly for a couple reasons - I have never seen a red light camera, I don't know the standard (actual specs)on how they are installed or operate, I don't know the intersection. I even tried to google map the intersection, but it is not clear enough. So guessing or making suggestion specifically for that intersection would not be appropriate.
labmichael wrote:
. please do not delete this as you deleted my response from the other thread.
Your other thread was deleted because it violated forum rules.
For the sake of users please use metric as it has been the unit of measure for traffic since 1977.
I did not comment directly for a couple reasons - I have never seen a red light camera, I don't know the standard (actual specs)on how they are installed or operate, I don't know the intersection. I even tried to google map the intersection, but it is not clear enough. So guessing or making suggestion specifically for that intersection would not be appropriate.
Above is merely a suggestion/thought and in no way constitutes legal advice or views of my employer. www.OHTA.ca
thanks again for responding... I respect that you would like to know all the facts and for that i wish you would have been the judge when i went to court. They the prosecutors do not have to prove their case with these camera tickets but the defendants must do so. You are right without the specs of the cameras, you have no defense, they always win. When i wanted to introduce the specs i was not allowed to to so. I do admit that i am very angry that i was not given a chance to prove my case and know all to well how the courts work. In my case I was in a court room with about 12 people and after 20mins and only 3 people were heard another prosecutor came in and took 4 people to the other room 10mins later came in and took 3 more. I was one of the 3. It was clear that judge was trying clear the cases not listen to facts. That is why I am angry. I only wish to give good advise to others who have and will turn on a red light legally. Do not turn right on a red light that has a red light camera, you risk getting a 325.00 fine with out any proof by the courts. If you are a person who drives through red lights illegally and put others at risk then you should pay what ever the fine is issued.
thanks again for responding...
I respect that you would like to know all the facts and for that i wish you would have been the judge when i went to court.
They the prosecutors do not have to prove their case with these camera tickets but the defendants must do so. You are right without the specs of the cameras, you have no defense, they always win. When i wanted to introduce the specs i was not allowed to to so. I do admit that i am very angry that i was not given a chance to prove my case and know all to well how the courts work. In my case I was in a court room with about 12 people and after 20mins and only 3 people were heard another prosecutor came in and took 4 people to the other room 10mins later came in and took 3 more. I was one of the 3. It was clear that judge was trying clear the cases not listen to facts. That is why I am angry.
I only wish to give good advise to others who have and will turn on a red light legally. Do not turn right on a red light that has a red light camera, you risk getting a 325.00 fine with out any proof by the courts.
If you are a person who drives through red lights illegally and put others at risk then you should pay what ever the fine is issued.
I tried to copy the "event" today. I was going 40 kph and slowed to 25kph. My foot was over the brake to slow down. (no reaction time involved.) It took me less then 1 small car length to stop.(just over 2 meters.) I would think anyone nearing a red light would have their foot on the brake already. It would be an "abrupt" stop but it is easy to do. Cheers Viper1
I tried to copy the "event" today.
I was going 40 kph and slowed to 25kph.
My foot was over the brake to slow down.
(no reaction time involved.)
It took me less then 1 small car length to stop.(just over 2 meters.)
I would think anyone nearing a red light would have their foot on the brake already.
It would be an "abrupt" stop but it is easy to do.
Cheers
Viper1
"hang onto your chair when reading my posts
use at your own risk"
The only recourse you have is to appeal the conviction, if you feel that the JP did not allow you to introduce any evidence. You would need to order the transcripts for your original trial, and then prepare a factum, etc., when it goes before a Justice. You could then argue that the JP did not follow proper procedure in failing to allow you to introduce evidence to show your innocence to the charge. What would then likely occur is the Justice would quash the conviction and either order a new trial, or hear the case directly. As for the actual operation of the camera, you would need the camera operator's manual to show that it is possible that the camera was wrongfully issuing tickets. I do know that the camera uses magneometers embedded in the roadway that sense when a vehicle passes over them. You'd need to show where the magnetometers are set on the roadway, and where you actually stopped your vehicle. You'd then need to show (and I don't mean theoretical calculations, you'd need actual proof with real tests) that your vehicle could've accelerated within the distance from the point you stopped to/over the magnetometers and tripped the camera. However, I think that the cameras are set so that it records your actual speed going across the stop line, and the camera computer is intelligent enough to know acceleration/deceleration, so that if you stopped on/near the stop line, it would not set the camera off.
The only recourse you have is to appeal the conviction, if you feel that the JP did not allow you to introduce any evidence. You would need to order the transcripts for your original trial, and then prepare a factum, etc., when it goes before a Justice. You could then argue that the JP did not follow proper procedure in failing to allow you to introduce evidence to show your innocence to the charge. What would then likely occur is the Justice would quash the conviction and either order a new trial, or hear the case directly.
As for the actual operation of the camera, you would need the camera operator's manual to show that it is possible that the camera was wrongfully issuing tickets. I do know that the camera uses magneometers embedded in the roadway that sense when a vehicle passes over them. You'd need to show where the magnetometers are set on the roadway, and where you actually stopped your vehicle. You'd then need to show (and I don't mean theoretical calculations, you'd need actual proof with real tests) that your vehicle could've accelerated within the distance from the point you stopped to/over the magnetometers and tripped the camera. However, I think that the cameras are set so that it records your actual speed going across the stop line, and the camera computer is intelligent enough to know acceleration/deceleration, so that if you stopped on/near the stop line, it would not set the camera off.
* The above is NOT legal advice. By acting on anything I have said, you assume responsibility for any outcome and consequences. *
http://www.OntarioTicket.com OR http://www.OHTA.ca
Hi so I have a bizzare situation. Today I received a summons for "being the owner of a motor vehicle bearing Vehicle Identification Number ###, failed to submit the vehicle, equipment or drawn vehicle for inspection or tests as required by an officer" for a vehicle I previously owned. Apparently a violation of HTA 82(9).
The date of offense is June 15, the summons was issued on October 26th and I…
Hi, I need some help for the ticket of lmproper left turn.
When i drove my car from east to west, intending to make a left turn and stop in front of stop line. There was a car in front of me, which has turn on yellow light. The light was turning red and then I thought I cannot leave in the intersection and turned, an incoming car was runing the light and hit me. No one got hurt but both cars had…
Have a ticket in which the radar used was a Genesis VP Directional. I had downloaded the manual for a Genesis VP but I now realize that the unit is not the same so it is the wrong manual. My trial is very soon so I do not have time to ask for disclosure of the manual.
Does anyone have access to an electronic version of the manual for Genesis VP Directional?
I was pulled over today in the city of Oakville for going 75 in a 40 zone. However, I am 100 percent certain that I was going only 50 in the 40 zone. When I was pulled over, I was driving my Dad's car which I felt was the reason I was getting stopped since two teenagers driving a 2013 S Class. He asked does I know why I am being pulled over and I…
I really need help on fighting my 9 tickets i received from one police officer. Here is some background of what happened!
I was caught speeding 66km on a 40km (school zone) on January 29, 2010. I was driving my friend's car and turns out she didnt renew the validation on the vehicle and didnt leave the up to date insurance paper on the car.
Hey question that I think here's probably the best place to get the answer:
I was charged with a careless driving offence in oct, trail in early april, so as of right now my insurance record is 100% clean... except the officer did file an accident report at the scene where I was classified at fault due to it being PI (although very minor). The person I hit did not sue etc, so the insurance company…
Very much unintentionally passed a stopped bus, with sign and flashing lights. Didn't realize I had done it until I was at the end of the bus. I'll save you my sob story, but it was truly accidental. I'm generally very cautious and have a perfect driving record. Never been stopped.
While I realize if a cop had seen me that I would have gotten a ticket, there were none in sight. Though I may very…
I was recently pulled over for running a red and I wasnt able to find my wallet in the car at the time to hand over my license. I had a passport in the vehicle that he used. The wallet was in the vehicle, it just fell through the seats. (Tough to find a black leather wallet in a black/black leather truck at night).
The officer still wrote the tickets for both he signed the one ticket (failure to…
I was passing a vehicle that was going slow for me and there was an oncoming vehicle coming at me. I speed up to get around the person I was passing and the oncoming vehicle turns out to be a cop who turns around and tickets me for going 110km in a 80km zone. How does it work with passing a vehicle? Once I passed the vehicle I went back down to my original speed of just under 100. The officer…
I picked up a brand new (old stock) Fuzzbuster a while ago at auction (wopping $5!!) and I want to mount it on the dash of my old GTO as a cool accessory when I show it at car shows. But I'm not sure if it's legal or not.
Here's my thoughts:
- It is early 70's technology (x-band) so it won't detect modern police radar. That's assuming no police force uses the old x-band frequency.
Hi guys, I'm still a little in shock of getting my first traffic ticket...
On Monday afternoon, I was returning from Toronto to Ottawa on HW416, I was driving about 15 over 100 like always. Then a car came very close to me on the left lane and made me nervous, I speed up unintentionally to pass the car and change lane, but while doing that a police car pull out of the median. He was hiding in…
May i ask this question regarding transport trucks limited to 105 km/h. Moving road blocks or safety?
IMO it isnt speed that kills. I find transport trucks infact help keep the road going. With cars that choose to not move to the right and slow down the middle lane the trucks would try to pass in their passing lane therefore the slower traffic would move right.
Received a notice from the police that a motion is being put forward to adjourn upcoming trial date. Notice indicates that an officer has sworn an affidavit that the crucial witness cannot attend date trial is set for (we know there is a social engagement at 7:30 pm for the witness, trial time is 1:30 pm). This further delay is a big problem to my daughter's case. She is moving away to…
This is what happened. I was travelling west on a four lane city street that was very light with traffic. I was making a left hand turn into a wide driveway of a business. There was traffic lights about 100 yards past the driveway and were red for the east-west traffic. I was in the left lane with my signal on and there was no oncoming traffic due to the red light. I was slowed right down…
I was driving my families older car and got pulled over, and the police officer informed me my plate was dirty. He issued me a ticket of $110 for the 13(2) act and obstruct plate as the offense. He informed me that such a plate could be used to avoid red lights as well as 407 tolls, also that buying a new plate can help to lower the ticket if I fight the charge, and that he also took a picture…
I received a red light camera ticket. In the picture, you see an ambulance in front of me with flashing lights. I had moved to alleviate the traffic behind me for the emergency vehicles coming behind it.
Is this a possible defense, if so, does anyone know any good case law to justify this position?
what happens if they charge someone for driving at 151Km/hr in montreal and they put for trial, appear after some months and sadly lost the trial ?
In montreal its $300 fine and 5demerit points ...
I heard Ontario and Qubec share the information. So once the trial is over ( and when the file moved to ontario) will his car gets towed and licence get suspended for 7days (later to 30 days ) ? and he…
I got a notice in the mail that trial is set four weeks from today, so it's time to request disclosure. I have zero chance of getting an 11b since trial is less than two months after the offense date and the officer did not reduce the charge. I really want to try and create delays on the trial, to reduce the chance of the officer showing up on multiple occasions. Is there any known loop-holes…
This weekend my father was involved in an accident with a transit bus in Burlington, ON. After the police showed up he was charged with "Fail to obey stop sign" Sec. 136(1)(a). At this particular intersection there NO stop signs but there are traffic lights. There is construction going on there so one of the light posts is smaller.
Driving conditions were terribly wet and visibility was low.…
So my boyfriend and I recently started dating. I have a vehicle that was insured. Insurance cost too much and I found it was just as easy to walk to work due to how close it was. But I didn't want to get rid of my car just yet, plus I'm still making payments on it as well. When we moved into our appartment together, I had it towed to my parking spot out back.
I was making a left hand legal turn on a green light, a driver came through the lane I was supposed to be going into ran the red and hit me head on as I was turning into my lane. When the officer came he was telling me that I was racing and driving recklessly because apparently there was reports of street racing in the area. I was not charged on the scene for this but I'm scared i am going to be…
I got a ticket for failure to surrender insurance because I did not have my new insurance stubs with me, just a bunch of expired ones. My policy number has not changed, so I asked the officer to just run the policy number so I could prove that I was in fact insured. He said they don't have that ability, handed me the ticket and reminded me that my car could have been impounded.
So I'm in a bit of a pickle and would appreciate if someone could clarify something for me.
I'm less than a month away (test on April 6th) from getting my full G license, and got a speeding ticket recently. The ticket was for 49km/h over the posted limit of 100km/h on the 403 in Oakville/Halton region, but was reduced from the initial ~60km/h over.
