Our website is made possible by displaying online advertisements to our visitors.
Please consider supporting us by disabling your ad blocker.

Ontario Highway Traffic Act

Discuss the Ontario Highway Traffic Act.


Post Your Traffic Ticket, and Get Help!


The Ontario Traffic Ticket Forum!


All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 12 posts ] 
Check It Out
No unread posts New Set Fines Starting Sept 1st, 2015! Read and Learn Here.
  Print view

Red Light Camera offense
Author Message
PostPosted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 10:43 am 
Offline
Newbie

Joined: Tue Apr 28, 2009 10:32 am
Posts: 14
hi all,

just got in the mail a red light camera offense notice. what ticked me is that i was making a right turn.

i must admit that i did a rolling stop and also at the same time there were cars making left turn (so it was safe to turn right since the road was clear).

do i have a case if i fight this one on court? i did not go through the intersection, i made a right turn, which in my opinion was safe.

also, can i take this at any POA office? the notice says that i take this to Markham Road office. I work in downtown so it would be convinient for me to go to the Peter St location.

TIA,
rbee


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 11:35 am 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2008 8:26 pm
Posts: 2881
Location: Toronto
Couple of things about your ticket. As it was a red light camera offence, there will not be any demerit points and your insurance rates will not be affected if you pay, as you are being charged as the vehicle owner.

rbee wrote:
there were cars making left turn


Did they have a green arrow to turn left? If so, this was posted under a discussion on "improper right turn":

hwybear wrote:
Just a side note related but not to this particular situation.

If stopped at a red light, and then a green arrow appears to turn left....no motor vehicle can make a turn to the right while the red is showing.
Just and FYI


That may have triggered it. Also, a rolling stop counts as not stopping; admitting that in court is admitting guilt.

rbee wrote:
also, can i take this at any POA office? the notice says that i take this to Markham Road office.


I can't say for sure but I think you'll have to go to the Markham Road office. The reason being that the Peter St. location probably won't have the information on your charge.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 11:48 am 
Offline
Newbie

Joined: Tue Apr 28, 2009 10:32 am
Posts: 14
there was no green light, the light turned amber (that's when the other cars started turning left) and then red.

the picture also clearly show my right turn signal was on.

yes, it clearly states on the ticket that there will be no demerit points but the fine is $180!!! that's alot of coins!

i'm hoping that if i prove that i did not go through the intersection on red, the charges (or fine) will be dropped.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 2:08 pm 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2008 8:26 pm
Posts: 2881
Location: Toronto
What probably happened is one of the cars that was turning left tripped the red light camera. This is what I would do:

Take the photographs that were provided to you, and take a note of sections 144 - 18 and 144 - 19 of the Highway Traffic Act. 144 - 19 is the part that allows you to turn right on a red. It may be helpful to photograph the intersection, as well. They are not supposed to install sensors for the red-light camera on the roadway in the rightmost lane; this is so cars turning right do not activate the camera. The sensor beds have some black tar "caulking" around them forming a rectangle in each lane, and they're paved over. They're basically metal detectors. If the rightmost lane is completely smooth, no rectangular tar outlines, take the photograph of it with a time-date stamp. Also photograph the intersection showing that there are no signs indicating that a turn on red is prohibited.

Take the photographs they provided, your photograph and your copy of section 144 - 18 and 144 - 19. Go to court, state that you approached the intersection, you signalled for a turn to the right, checked the intersection, noted the light was changing, and proceeded in safety to make a right turn, as permitted in accordance with section 144 - 19 of the Highway Traffic Act. Also show the photograph of where the sensor beds are and that should prove that your vehicle could not have activated the camera. (Don't mention the "rolling stop" part.) As such, request that the charge be dismissed, as they sent the ticket to the wrong vehicle owner.

That would be my strategy anyway...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 6:20 pm 
Offline
Sr. Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2008 5:59 pm
Posts: 486
Location: Toronto
Excellent post RI! Man, looking at your graphic gets me tired!

A couple of things to add, you can take the ticket to any POA office in Ontario. They'll photocopy your ticket and then stamp it and give it back to you. If possible, can you post a photo of your ticket here (blanking out the personal details)? I'm interested in the fine amount box at the bottom of the ticket to see if it's completed correctly.

Request disclosure specifically asking for a copy of the original photographs, a clear indicator of the timing of the photographs and the speed of your vehicle. Also ask for a clear picture of the superimposed numbers.

Ask for evidence that the camera was working properly (maintenance logs, etc.) And ask for the operator's manual for the camera so that you can better understand how it works.

If you don't get any of this, you can apply for a stay based on improper disclosure.

Also if the speed of your vehicle is slow, it's an indicator that you stopped and began to turn. If the speed is too fast, it may be an indicator that the sensor was picking up another vehicle (which might be in the picture!)

The important lesson here is that the photographs paint only one side of the story. There's another side that you will bring out at trial.

_________________
Fight Your Ticket!


Last edited by ticketcombat on Fri Jun 19, 2009 11:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 12:00 am 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2008 8:26 pm
Posts: 2881
Location: Toronto
ticketcombat wrote:
Excellent post RI!


Thanks, hopefully it proves useful! Also, would like to mention that your website provided the foundation for that post.

ticketcombat wrote:
A couple of things to add, you can take the ticket to any POA office in Ontario.


Good to know. Will note that for future reference. rbee, I think you've got an excellent chance of beating this.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 8:47 pm 
Offline
Newbie

Joined: Tue Apr 28, 2009 10:32 am
Posts: 14
Radar Identified wrote:
They are not supposed to install sensors for the red-light camera on the roadway in the rightmost lane; this is so cars turning right do not activate the camera. The sensor beds have some black tar "caulking" around them forming a rectangle in each lane, and they're paved over. They're basically metal detectors.


i can see the black tar caulking on the picture in my red light camera ticket, they are visible. so, how do i prove to them that sensor is not supposed to be on the right side? is there a document that i can show them that this sensor is placed incorrectly?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 9:03 pm 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2008 7:21 am
Posts: 2933
Location: In YOUR rearview mirror!
i have only seen the tar in all lanes, this is for the vehicle electromagnetics/weight and trigger a red light to turn green. Rather than sit there for hours on end if no other traffic is in the area.

_________________
Above is merely a suggestion/thought and in no way constitutes legal advice or views of my employer. www.OHTA.ca


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 9:11 pm 
Offline
Newbie

Joined: Tue Apr 28, 2009 10:32 am
Posts: 14
i understand that they put sensors on streets that have less traffic so it will only trigger the light when there is a car waiting... but this is a major intersection so i would think that sensors are there for the purpose of red light camera.

am i correct in my assumption???


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 11:01 am 
Offline
Sr. Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2008 5:59 pm
Posts: 486
Location: Toronto
Induction loops (rectangle wires buried in the road) are used along with sensors to detect movement, direction and speed. In a multi lane highway with dedicated left and right turn lanes the wires are not place there. Only in the through lanes. But on a two lane road, you'll likely cross a loop as you turn right.

_________________
Fight Your Ticket!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 11:57 pm 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2008 8:26 pm
Posts: 2881
Location: Toronto
Just to go back to rbee's original photograph... it did show that several vehicles were making a left turn as you turned right, correct? Can you tell if more than one vehicle turning left went through the red in that photograph?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 12:56 pm 
Offline
Newbie

Joined: Tue Apr 28, 2009 10:32 am
Posts: 14
Radar Identified wrote:
Just to go back to rbee's original photograph... it did show that several vehicles were making a left turn as you turned right, correct? Can you tell if more than one vehicle turning left went through the red in that photograph?


there were 3 vehicles in the picture... so i would assume that two of them turned when light turned red... the first one probably turned when light was amber.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 12 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Related topics
 Topics   Author   Replies   Views   Last post 
There are no new unread posts for this topic. Red Light Camera Ticket - Wrong Offense Location

and1star

0

1042

Mon Apr 21, 2014 2:02 pm

and1star View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Red Light - Fail to Stop & Red Light Camera ticket

goldhead124

7

1916

Thu Mar 17, 2016 6:56 am

t3ch9 View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Attachment(s) Red light camera ticket - broken down truck on the light

blueboy

5

3914

Tue Jan 08, 2013 6:01 am

bend View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Red Light Camera!

Slyk

6

2786

Thu Mar 12, 2009 8:19 am

Bookm View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Red light camera's

jjory

3

1174

Tue Sep 28, 2010 12:47 pm

Traffic Law View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. RED LIGHT CAMERA OFFENCE

Peterg

6

3532

Wed Apr 21, 2010 4:42 pm

FyreStorm View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Red Light Camera Ticket

Red Light Camera

3

13550

Tue Jun 15, 2010 1:02 am

Simon Borys View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Red light camera photographs

offendedbyoffences

7

2256

Tue Nov 09, 2010 8:18 pm

hwybear View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Red Light Camera Ticket

nn810

0

1362

Tue Dec 07, 2010 3:29 am

nn810 View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Red Light Camera Ticket

Clarkey

2

6801

Wed Feb 23, 2011 11:32 pm

Radar Identified View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Red light camera ticket

acura17el

3

3729

Wed Apr 27, 2011 9:36 pm

Simon Borys View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. red light camera ticket

katheryne

1

2686

Thu Sep 22, 2011 8:49 am

Stanton View the latest post

 


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Web Development & Search Engine Optimization
Home | Court Listings | Ontario Traffic Ticket

Copyright 2007 - 2017 © Microtekblue Inc. Web Development & Search Engine Optimization Service. We Support phpBB All Rights Reserved.