In some cases, it takes too long for the Crown to bring a charge against a defendant to trial. If your charge has taken too long to come to trial, you can stop the proceedings by "filing an 11B." This is filing paperwork to bring a motion at your trial, where you essentially say, "my rights to a speedy trial have been violated, and I want the case stopped." It is called an 11B because section 11B of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms guarantees you the right to a speedy trial. You can't just show up in court and say "this took too long to come to trial." You MUST file the paperwork. There is a lot of good, useful information out there about how to file an 11B. Generally, it must have been at least 11 months between the time you filed your ticket with the courthouse and the proceeding of trial. Keep in mind, though, the delays have to be attributable to the Crown. If you had a trial scheduled at 8 months, and then asked for a re-schedule because you were sick and the new time was 12 months after the ticket was filed, that is only considered "8 months." If, though, you asked for disclosure, and they didn't have it ready, that delay is "attributable to the Crown," and then it would be "12 months." In other words, you can't just keep asking for adjournments until it goes over 11 months and then file an 11B (unless it's the Crown's fault, e.g. no disclosure). You can file an 11B yourself, or you can hire a paralegal to do it for you. They both have their pros and cons, so you need to decide what is right for you. Be forewarned that filing this yourself requires a lot of work, and you still have to be prepared to present an argument in court. If you choose to file the 11B yourself, you'll need to do the following to get started: - Find your ticket - Find Notice of Trial - Gather any other court records (e.g. transcripts if you had a date in court already, etc) - Locate a Commissioner of Oaths or Notary Public Then the fun begins. You have to determine if you have a reasonable case for delay of trial. We already discussed the time line above. That comes from two precedent-setting cases, R. v. Askov and R. v. Morin cases. You should review them. Yes, it is a lot of reading! This website has some good information on how to put the paperwork together: http://fightyourtickets.ca/tickets/appl ... oceedings/ Some threads cover this extensively, such as this one: http://www.ontariohighwaytrafficact.com/topic2808.html diehard, in the post below, covers the steps to follow. Keep in mind that the clerks have very little training and sometimes you need to guide them, step-by-step, through what you are doing. For example, when I had to file the Affidavits of Service, it took almost eight minutes of going back and forth with the clerk before finally a Supervisor stepped in, stamped the forms and said "okay you're good to go." Just be patient. Stand your ground, but be patient, when filing. The exception to the filing process mentioned by diehard is the suffocating, depressing nightmare you will encounter at Old City Hall in Toronto. For a quick guide to that, please see this website: http://www.ticketcombat.com/step4/howtofile_harder.php You need to serve the following parties with the 11B application at least 15 days (preferably 20+ days) prior to your court date: - Attorney-General of Canada - Attorney-General of Ontario - Prosecutor's Office handling your case - Court where your case will be heard You need proof that you have served each party with the application. The Attorneys-General can be served by fax; you will need to retain the fax receipts and also swear an Affidavit of Service (form 16B) that you served them. The Prosecutor's Office and Court should be served in person. For details on how to do this, please see diehard's post below.
Unfortunately, you can not give the prosecutor's office a generic list; you have to be specific. Generally for speeding you can only ask for the officer's notes and a copy of the speed measuring device's manual: http://www.ontariohighwaytrafficact.com/topic2959.html Prosecutor's office can ignore long-winded requests and force defendants to explain to the JP how each and every individual request item is relevant to their charge. If the courts believe your disclosure request is a fishing expedition, and you're overwhelming the prosecution with frivolous items then this can backfire on you. S7 charter challenge would not be entertained, and future adjournments will count against you and not the crown.
Unfortunately, you can not give the prosecutor's office a generic list; you have to be specific. Generally for speeding you can only ask for the officer's notes and a copy of the speed measuring device's manual: http://www.ontariohighwaytrafficact.com/topic2959.html
Prosecutor's office can ignore long-winded requests and force defendants to explain to the JP how each and every individual request item is relevant to their charge.
If the courts believe your disclosure request is a fishing expedition, and you're overwhelming the prosecution with frivolous items then this can backfire on you.
S7 charter challenge would not be entertained, and future adjournments will count against you and not the crown.
All I got last time was officers notes, cpic report, radar manual. I understand that's all they probably have, but at this time 2 requests have gone unanswered.
iFly55 wrote:
Unfortunately, you can not give the prosecutor's office a generic list; you have to be specific. Generally for speeding you can only ask for the officer's notes and a copy of the speed measuring device's manual: http://www.ontariohighwaytrafficact.com/topic2959.html
Prosecutor's office can ignore long-winded requests and force defendants to explain to the JP how each and every individual request item is relevant to their charge.
If the courts believe your disclosure request is a fishing expedition, and you're overwhelming the prosecution with frivolous items then this can backfire on you.
S7 charter challenge would not be entertained, and future adjournments will count against you and not the crown.
All I got last time was officers notes, cpic report, radar manual. I understand that's all they probably have, but at this time 2 requests have gone unanswered.
Hello I am getting ready to file a 4F under section 7 and 11b. Here is my case. Charged on Oct 30th, 2013 with going 87 in 60, charged dropped to 75 in 60 roadside. I requested a meeting with the prosecutor thinking they will drop the charge (bad thinking), they did not, so notice of trial was sent to me on Jan 8th for june 18th 2014. I requested disclosure twice, they sent me nothing, so I filed a 4F for non-dsiclosure. I argued my 4F but the justice only granted an adjournment for Nov 12th 2014. I checked the disclosure they gave me and it was missing some of the items I requested. I again requested disclosure of the missing items twice without any answer. My trial will be 12 months and 13 days from the time of charge and 10 months and 4 days since my early resolution meeting. I also requested an early trial date through a letter I sent, but they left a voicemail saying the date I requested is not available and that I have to appear before a judge to change the trial date) My question is, do I use the same 4F for both section & argument and 11B? Or do I send 2 forms for each argument? Please advise, as I need to file the paperwork by this friday October 10th. Thank you
Hello
I am getting ready to file a 4F under section 7 and 11b.
Here is my case. Charged on Oct 30th, 2013 with going 87 in 60, charged dropped to 75 in 60 roadside. I requested a meeting with the prosecutor thinking they will drop the charge (bad thinking), they did not, so notice of trial was sent to me on Jan 8th for june 18th 2014. I requested disclosure twice, they sent me nothing, so I filed a 4F for non-dsiclosure. I argued my 4F but the justice only granted an adjournment for Nov 12th 2014. I checked the disclosure they gave me and it was missing some of the items I requested. I again requested disclosure of the missing items twice without any answer. My trial will be 12 months and 13 days from the time of charge and 10 months and 4 days since my early resolution meeting. I also requested an early trial date through a letter I sent, but they left a voicemail saying the date I requested is not available and that I have to appear before a judge to change the trial date)
My question is, do I use the same 4F for both section & argument and 11B? Or do I send 2 forms for each argument?
Please advise, as I need to file the paperwork by this friday October 10th.
All I got last time was officers notes, cpic report, radar manual. I understand that's all they probably have, but at this time 2 requests have gone unanswered. They sent me a letter saying they don't mail disclosure (BS) and I could get it emailed, faxed or picked up. I called the number and requested it be emailed then as I don't have time to attend; I'm away with work all the time.
Millstone wrote:
iFly55 wrote:
Unfortunately, you can not give the prosecutor's office a generic list; you have to be specific. Generally for speeding you can only ask for the officer's notes and a copy of the speed measuring device's manual: http://www.ontariohighwaytrafficact.com/topic2959.html
Prosecutor's office can ignore long-winded requests and force defendants to explain to the JP how each and every individual request item is relevant to their charge.
If the courts believe your disclosure request is a fishing expedition, and you're overwhelming the prosecution with frivolous items then this can backfire on you.
S7 charter challenge would not be entertained, and future adjournments will count against you and not the crown.
All I got last time was officers notes, cpic report, radar manual. I understand that's all they probably have, but at this time 2 requests have gone unanswered.
They sent me a letter saying they don't mail disclosure (BS) and I could get it emailed, faxed or picked up. I called the number and requested it be emailed then as I don't have time to attend; I'm away with work all the time.
Looking at different guides, i am confused about which forms must be submitted for 11b application. Do i have to create 6 binders based on this sample: http://scopezoom.com/11b/StayPDF.pdf or is 4 copies of FORM 4F (1 page) completed enough? Confused...
Looking at different guides, i am confused about which forms must be submitted for 11b application. Do i have to create 6 binders based on this sample: http://scopezoom.com/11b/StayPDF.pdf
or is 4 copies of FORM 4F (1 page) completed enough?
Hi all, Great information on this site. It's been very helpful. Does anyone still have a copy of StayPDF.pdf?? It appears the original document was on scopezoom.com and the site appears to be down. Any help would be greatly appreciated, and I'd be happy to update my experience here with the latest info on the procedures. Thanks again!
Hi all,
Great information on this site. It's been very helpful.
Does anyone still have a copy of StayPDF.pdf??
It appears the original document was on scopezoom.com and the site appears to be down.
Any help would be greatly appreciated, and I'd be happy to update my experience here with the latest info on the procedures.
i lost my license in an accident i had to due my exceeding amount of demerit points. i went to jail and made bail i was put on a curfew of 9am to 9pm stupidly enough i did not follow and i got pulled over for driving with a different cars license plates, no insurance, and violating my curfew... i…
I was charged for disobey sign (no left turn) in a winter noon time around Bay/Edward (the prosecutor/judge said it to be a Absolute liability offences but disobey sign is actually a strict liability offence, right? And I found this: For example, if you made an illegal left-turn where there were…
so got fined with 69km in a 50km, at bottom of hill...didn't even have foot on the gas. first ticket ever in over 10 years of driving. fine was 62$ and 3 points.
cop says take to court and get demerit points reduced. didn't even let me speak and walks away.
On my way to work today I got a 110 dollar ticket + 2 demerit points.
I was driving north on Bathurst and turned left onto a side street into a residential area before hitting the lights at Eglinton and Bathurst. I normally do this to avoid the big line up to turn left onto Eglinton.
On the 400 extension EB towards Barrie cops like to hide out under an over pass that is Ski Trails Rd. They tag people as the come over the crest of the hill and that is 900m from where this officer was standing.
I'm confused because I knew this, saw the cop, and checked my…
I was making a left hand legal turn on a green light, a driver came through the lane I was supposed to be going into ran the red and hit me head on as I was turning into my lane. When the officer came he was telling me that I was racing and driving recklessly because apparently there was reports of…
Today i got caught doing 115 in a 90 at Mayfield and 410 and what I have been reading is that this offence is 3 points. Seeing this is my first offence I'm unsure if the ticket is supposed to I lost 3 points or is that just automatic. Also should I go to fight it to drop the points and just pay the…
I was (recently) involved in a traffic accident where, due to icy road conditions, I slid into oncoming traffic while making a right turn, while they were coming towards me and stopping at a stop sign. This was a residential area and there's no way I was exceeding anything over 20KM/h on…
Re: How to file an 11B
