In some cases, it takes too long for the Crown to bring a charge against a defendant to trial. If your charge has taken too long to come to trial, you can stop the proceedings by "filing an 11B." This is filing paperwork to bring a motion at your trial, where you essentially say, "my rights to a speedy trial have been violated, and I want the case stopped." It is called an 11B because section 11B of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms guarantees you the right to a speedy trial. You can't just show up in court and say "this took too long to come to trial." You MUST file the paperwork. There is a lot of good, useful information out there about how to file an 11B. Generally, it must have been at least 11 months between the time you filed your ticket with the courthouse and the proceeding of trial. Keep in mind, though, the delays have to be attributable to the Crown. If you had a trial scheduled at 8 months, and then asked for a re-schedule because you were sick and the new time was 12 months after the ticket was filed, that is only considered "8 months." If, though, you asked for disclosure, and they didn't have it ready, that delay is "attributable to the Crown," and then it would be "12 months." In other words, you can't just keep asking for adjournments until it goes over 11 months and then file an 11B (unless it's the Crown's fault, e.g. no disclosure). You can file an 11B yourself, or you can hire a paralegal to do it for you. They both have their pros and cons, so you need to decide what is right for you. Be forewarned that filing this yourself requires a lot of work, and you still have to be prepared to present an argument in court. If you choose to file the 11B yourself, you'll need to do the following to get started: - Find your ticket - Find Notice of Trial - Gather any other court records (e.g. transcripts if you had a date in court already, etc) - Locate a Commissioner of Oaths or Notary Public Then the fun begins. You have to determine if you have a reasonable case for delay of trial. We already discussed the time line above. That comes from two precedent-setting cases, R. v. Askov and R. v. Morin cases. You should review them. Yes, it is a lot of reading! This website has some good information on how to put the paperwork together: http://fightyourtickets.ca/tickets/appl ... oceedings/ Some threads cover this extensively, such as this one: http://www.ontariohighwaytrafficact.com/topic2808.html diehard, in the post below, covers the steps to follow. Keep in mind that the clerks have very little training and sometimes you need to guide them, step-by-step, through what you are doing. For example, when I had to file the Affidavits of Service, it took almost eight minutes of going back and forth with the clerk before finally a Supervisor stepped in, stamped the forms and said "okay you're good to go." Just be patient. Stand your ground, but be patient, when filing. The exception to the filing process mentioned by diehard is the suffocating, depressing nightmare you will encounter at Old City Hall in Toronto. For a quick guide to that, please see this website: http://www.ticketcombat.com/step4/howtofile_harder.php You need to serve the following parties with the 11B application at least 15 days (preferably 20+ days) prior to your court date: - Attorney-General of Canada - Attorney-General of Ontario - Prosecutor's Office handling your case - Court where your case will be heard You need proof that you have served each party with the application. The Attorneys-General can be served by fax; you will need to retain the fax receipts and also swear an Affidavit of Service (form 16B) that you served them. The Prosecutor's Office and Court should be served in person. For details on how to do this, please see diehard's post below.
Unfortunately, you can not give the prosecutor's office a generic list; you have to be specific. Generally for speeding you can only ask for the officer's notes and a copy of the speed measuring device's manual: http://www.ontariohighwaytrafficact.com/topic2959.html Prosecutor's office can ignore long-winded requests and force defendants to explain to the JP how each and every individual request item is relevant to their charge. If the courts believe your disclosure request is a fishing expedition, and you're overwhelming the prosecution with frivolous items then this can backfire on you. S7 charter challenge would not be entertained, and future adjournments will count against you and not the crown.
Unfortunately, you can not give the prosecutor's office a generic list; you have to be specific. Generally for speeding you can only ask for the officer's notes and a copy of the speed measuring device's manual: http://www.ontariohighwaytrafficact.com/topic2959.html
Prosecutor's office can ignore long-winded requests and force defendants to explain to the JP how each and every individual request item is relevant to their charge.
If the courts believe your disclosure request is a fishing expedition, and you're overwhelming the prosecution with frivolous items then this can backfire on you.
S7 charter challenge would not be entertained, and future adjournments will count against you and not the crown.
All I got last time was officers notes, cpic report, radar manual. I understand that's all they probably have, but at this time 2 requests have gone unanswered.
iFly55 wrote:
Unfortunately, you can not give the prosecutor's office a generic list; you have to be specific. Generally for speeding you can only ask for the officer's notes and a copy of the speed measuring device's manual: http://www.ontariohighwaytrafficact.com/topic2959.html
Prosecutor's office can ignore long-winded requests and force defendants to explain to the JP how each and every individual request item is relevant to their charge.
If the courts believe your disclosure request is a fishing expedition, and you're overwhelming the prosecution with frivolous items then this can backfire on you.
S7 charter challenge would not be entertained, and future adjournments will count against you and not the crown.
All I got last time was officers notes, cpic report, radar manual. I understand that's all they probably have, but at this time 2 requests have gone unanswered.
Hello I am getting ready to file a 4F under section 7 and 11b. Here is my case. Charged on Oct 30th, 2013 with going 87 in 60, charged dropped to 75 in 60 roadside. I requested a meeting with the prosecutor thinking they will drop the charge (bad thinking), they did not, so notice of trial was sent to me on Jan 8th for june 18th 2014. I requested disclosure twice, they sent me nothing, so I filed a 4F for non-dsiclosure. I argued my 4F but the justice only granted an adjournment for Nov 12th 2014. I checked the disclosure they gave me and it was missing some of the items I requested. I again requested disclosure of the missing items twice without any answer. My trial will be 12 months and 13 days from the time of charge and 10 months and 4 days since my early resolution meeting. I also requested an early trial date through a letter I sent, but they left a voicemail saying the date I requested is not available and that I have to appear before a judge to change the trial date) My question is, do I use the same 4F for both section & argument and 11B? Or do I send 2 forms for each argument? Please advise, as I need to file the paperwork by this friday October 10th. Thank you
Hello
I am getting ready to file a 4F under section 7 and 11b.
Here is my case. Charged on Oct 30th, 2013 with going 87 in 60, charged dropped to 75 in 60 roadside. I requested a meeting with the prosecutor thinking they will drop the charge (bad thinking), they did not, so notice of trial was sent to me on Jan 8th for june 18th 2014. I requested disclosure twice, they sent me nothing, so I filed a 4F for non-dsiclosure. I argued my 4F but the justice only granted an adjournment for Nov 12th 2014. I checked the disclosure they gave me and it was missing some of the items I requested. I again requested disclosure of the missing items twice without any answer. My trial will be 12 months and 13 days from the time of charge and 10 months and 4 days since my early resolution meeting. I also requested an early trial date through a letter I sent, but they left a voicemail saying the date I requested is not available and that I have to appear before a judge to change the trial date)
My question is, do I use the same 4F for both section & argument and 11B? Or do I send 2 forms for each argument?
Please advise, as I need to file the paperwork by this friday October 10th.
All I got last time was officers notes, cpic report, radar manual. I understand that's all they probably have, but at this time 2 requests have gone unanswered. They sent me a letter saying they don't mail disclosure (BS) and I could get it emailed, faxed or picked up. I called the number and requested it be emailed then as I don't have time to attend; I'm away with work all the time.
Millstone wrote:
iFly55 wrote:
Unfortunately, you can not give the prosecutor's office a generic list; you have to be specific. Generally for speeding you can only ask for the officer's notes and a copy of the speed measuring device's manual: http://www.ontariohighwaytrafficact.com/topic2959.html
Prosecutor's office can ignore long-winded requests and force defendants to explain to the JP how each and every individual request item is relevant to their charge.
If the courts believe your disclosure request is a fishing expedition, and you're overwhelming the prosecution with frivolous items then this can backfire on you.
S7 charter challenge would not be entertained, and future adjournments will count against you and not the crown.
All I got last time was officers notes, cpic report, radar manual. I understand that's all they probably have, but at this time 2 requests have gone unanswered.
They sent me a letter saying they don't mail disclosure (BS) and I could get it emailed, faxed or picked up. I called the number and requested it be emailed then as I don't have time to attend; I'm away with work all the time.
Looking at different guides, i am confused about which forms must be submitted for 11b application. Do i have to create 6 binders based on this sample: http://scopezoom.com/11b/StayPDF.pdf or is 4 copies of FORM 4F (1 page) completed enough? Confused...
Looking at different guides, i am confused about which forms must be submitted for 11b application. Do i have to create 6 binders based on this sample: http://scopezoom.com/11b/StayPDF.pdf
or is 4 copies of FORM 4F (1 page) completed enough?
Hi all, Great information on this site. It's been very helpful. Does anyone still have a copy of StayPDF.pdf?? It appears the original document was on scopezoom.com and the site appears to be down. Any help would be greatly appreciated, and I'd be happy to update my experience here with the latest info on the procedures. Thanks again!
Hi all,
Great information on this site. It's been very helpful.
Does anyone still have a copy of StayPDF.pdf??
It appears the original document was on scopezoom.com and the site appears to be down.
Any help would be greatly appreciated, and I'd be happy to update my experience here with the latest info on the procedures.
Hi so I have a bizzare situation. Today I received a summons for "being the owner of a motor vehicle bearing Vehicle Identification Number ###, failed to submit the vehicle, equipment or drawn vehicle for inspection or tests as required by an officer" for a vehicle I previously owned. Apparently a violation of HTA 82(9).
The date of offense is June 15, the summons was issued on October 26th and I…
Hi, I need some help for the ticket of lmproper left turn.
When i drove my car from east to west, intending to make a left turn and stop in front of stop line. There was a car in front of me, which has turn on yellow light. The light was turning red and then I thought I cannot leave in the intersection and turned, an incoming car was runing the light and hit me. No one got hurt but both cars had…
Have a ticket in which the radar used was a Genesis VP Directional. I had downloaded the manual for a Genesis VP but I now realize that the unit is not the same so it is the wrong manual. My trial is very soon so I do not have time to ask for disclosure of the manual.
Does anyone have access to an electronic version of the manual for Genesis VP Directional?
I was pulled over today in the city of Oakville for going 75 in a 40 zone. However, I am 100 percent certain that I was going only 50 in the 40 zone. When I was pulled over, I was driving my Dad's car which I felt was the reason I was getting stopped since two teenagers driving a 2013 S Class. He asked does I know why I am being pulled over and I…
I really need help on fighting my 9 tickets i received from one police officer. Here is some background of what happened!
I was caught speeding 66km on a 40km (school zone) on January 29, 2010. I was driving my friend's car and turns out she didnt renew the validation on the vehicle and didnt leave the up to date insurance paper on the car.
Hey question that I think here's probably the best place to get the answer:
I was charged with a careless driving offence in oct, trail in early april, so as of right now my insurance record is 100% clean... except the officer did file an accident report at the scene where I was classified at fault due to it being PI (although very minor). The person I hit did not sue etc, so the insurance company…
Very much unintentionally passed a stopped bus, with sign and flashing lights. Didn't realize I had done it until I was at the end of the bus. I'll save you my sob story, but it was truly accidental. I'm generally very cautious and have a perfect driving record. Never been stopped.
While I realize if a cop had seen me that I would have gotten a ticket, there were none in sight. Though I may very…
I was recently pulled over for running a red and I wasnt able to find my wallet in the car at the time to hand over my license. I had a passport in the vehicle that he used. The wallet was in the vehicle, it just fell through the seats. (Tough to find a black leather wallet in a black/black leather truck at night).
The officer still wrote the tickets for both he signed the one ticket (failure to…
I was passing a vehicle that was going slow for me and there was an oncoming vehicle coming at me. I speed up to get around the person I was passing and the oncoming vehicle turns out to be a cop who turns around and tickets me for going 110km in a 80km zone. How does it work with passing a vehicle? Once I passed the vehicle I went back down to my original speed of just under 100. The officer…
I picked up a brand new (old stock) Fuzzbuster a while ago at auction (wopping $5!!) and I want to mount it on the dash of my old GTO as a cool accessory when I show it at car shows. But I'm not sure if it's legal or not.
Here's my thoughts:
- It is early 70's technology (x-band) so it won't detect modern police radar. That's assuming no police force uses the old x-band frequency.
Hi guys, I'm still a little in shock of getting my first traffic ticket...
On Monday afternoon, I was returning from Toronto to Ottawa on HW416, I was driving about 15 over 100 like always. Then a car came very close to me on the left lane and made me nervous, I speed up unintentionally to pass the car and change lane, but while doing that a police car pull out of the median. He was hiding in…
May i ask this question regarding transport trucks limited to 105 km/h. Moving road blocks or safety?
IMO it isnt speed that kills. I find transport trucks infact help keep the road going. With cars that choose to not move to the right and slow down the middle lane the trucks would try to pass in their passing lane therefore the slower traffic would move right.
Received a notice from the police that a motion is being put forward to adjourn upcoming trial date. Notice indicates that an officer has sworn an affidavit that the crucial witness cannot attend date trial is set for (we know there is a social engagement at 7:30 pm for the witness, trial time is 1:30 pm). This further delay is a big problem to my daughter's case. She is moving away to…
This is what happened. I was travelling west on a four lane city street that was very light with traffic. I was making a left hand turn into a wide driveway of a business. There was traffic lights about 100 yards past the driveway and were red for the east-west traffic. I was in the left lane with my signal on and there was no oncoming traffic due to the red light. I was slowed right down…
I was driving my families older car and got pulled over, and the police officer informed me my plate was dirty. He issued me a ticket of $110 for the 13(2) act and obstruct plate as the offense. He informed me that such a plate could be used to avoid red lights as well as 407 tolls, also that buying a new plate can help to lower the ticket if I fight the charge, and that he also took a picture…
I received a red light camera ticket. In the picture, you see an ambulance in front of me with flashing lights. I had moved to alleviate the traffic behind me for the emergency vehicles coming behind it.
Is this a possible defense, if so, does anyone know any good case law to justify this position?
what happens if they charge someone for driving at 151Km/hr in montreal and they put for trial, appear after some months and sadly lost the trial ?
In montreal its $300 fine and 5demerit points ...
I heard Ontario and Qubec share the information. So once the trial is over ( and when the file moved to ontario) will his car gets towed and licence get suspended for 7days (later to 30 days ) ? and he…
I got a notice in the mail that trial is set four weeks from today, so it's time to request disclosure. I have zero chance of getting an 11b since trial is less than two months after the offense date and the officer did not reduce the charge. I really want to try and create delays on the trial, to reduce the chance of the officer showing up on multiple occasions. Is there any known loop-holes…
This weekend my father was involved in an accident with a transit bus in Burlington, ON. After the police showed up he was charged with "Fail to obey stop sign" Sec. 136(1)(a). At this particular intersection there NO stop signs but there are traffic lights. There is construction going on there so one of the light posts is smaller.
Driving conditions were terribly wet and visibility was low.…
So my boyfriend and I recently started dating. I have a vehicle that was insured. Insurance cost too much and I found it was just as easy to walk to work due to how close it was. But I didn't want to get rid of my car just yet, plus I'm still making payments on it as well. When we moved into our appartment together, I had it towed to my parking spot out back.
I was making a left hand legal turn on a green light, a driver came through the lane I was supposed to be going into ran the red and hit me head on as I was turning into my lane. When the officer came he was telling me that I was racing and driving recklessly because apparently there was reports of street racing in the area. I was not charged on the scene for this but I'm scared i am going to be…
I got a ticket for failure to surrender insurance because I did not have my new insurance stubs with me, just a bunch of expired ones. My policy number has not changed, so I asked the officer to just run the policy number so I could prove that I was in fact insured. He said they don't have that ability, handed me the ticket and reminded me that my car could have been impounded.
So I'm in a bit of a pickle and would appreciate if someone could clarify something for me.
I'm less than a month away (test on April 6th) from getting my full G license, and got a speeding ticket recently. The ticket was for 49km/h over the posted limit of 100km/h on the 403 in Oakville/Halton region, but was reduced from the initial ~60km/h over.
Re: How to file an 11B
