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H.I.D. Headlight Conversion Kits...
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 10:46 pm 
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Location: Durham
Hi there everyone,

I have been a frequent visitor of this site for a while now but I just made an account today to ask a question that I have gotten no real clear cut answer on in the past.

What I'm talking about here is H.I.D. (High Intensity Discharge) Headlight Conversion Kits. For those of you who don't know what they are all about you can just google it and you will receive more than enough info on them. HID's come in different Kelvin ratings that determine the colour of light output of the bulb. Ranging from 3000k (Yellow) to 4500-6000k (White) to 8000-12000k (Blue to Purple) and then exotic colours like red, green, pink, purple, dark blue. Most of all HID's, including the 12000k bulbs have a much higher Lumen output then halogen bulbs do. But the short and quick is that they are extremely bright headlights that can be put on just about any car out there and most of the time result in a blinding bright white light.

Legal or illegal? And what is the offence one could face for having them?

I, myself, have used 12000K HID's for one full year now and never had a problem with local Police here in Durham Region. I admit, they are quite bright and probably somewhat blinding for oncoming drivers, sorry, but I can see a whole lot more than my stock halogens offered.

Just last week I installed Green bulbs...thats right, Green. They are significantly less blinding than the 12000k bulbs...in fact my friend who I was driving behind the other night says that they aren't blinding at all anymore. I have driven past NUMEROUS police cruisers, even had one officer stare me down through the intersection but I have not had any trouble as of yet.

On top of HID's being illegal, what could Green headlights get me in trouble for?

Any help is greatly appreciated,
Joe.



P.S. Thanks for the help but please don't try to educate me on how to properly install H.I.D. systems..about projector headlights and OEM installations and all the differences and how the light will scatter in non-OEM HID installations. I know, I know, I know.


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Re: H.I.D. Headlight Conversion Kits...
PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 1:02 am 
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Posts: 502
joe1212 wrote:
Hi there everyone,

I have been a frequent visitor of this site for a while now but I just made an account today to ask a question that I have gotten no real clear cut answer on in the past.

What I'm talking about here is H.I.D. (High Intensity Discharge) Headlight Conversion Kits. For those of you who don't know what they are all about you can just google it and you will receive more than enough info on them. HID's come in different Kelvin ratings that determine the colour of light output of the bulb. Ranging from 3000k (Yellow) to 4500-6000k (White) to 8000-12000k (Blue to Purple) and then exotic colours like red, green, pink, purple, dark blue. Most of all HID's, including the 12000k bulbs have a much higher Lumen output then halogen bulbs do. But the short and quick is that they are extremely bright headlights that can be put on just about any car out there and most of the time result in a blinding bright white light.

Legal or illegal? And what is the offence one could face for having them?

I, myself, have used 12000K HID's for one full year now and never had a problem with local Police here in Durham Region. I admit, they are quite bright and probably somewhat blinding for oncoming drivers, sorry, but I can see a whole lot more than my stock halogens offered.

Just last week I installed Green bulbs...thats right, Green. They are significantly less blinding than the 12000k bulbs...in fact my friend who I was driving behind the other night says that they aren't blinding at all anymore. I have driven past NUMEROUS police cruisers, even had one officer stare me down through the intersection but I have not had any trouble as of yet.

On top of HID's being illegal, what could Green headlights get me in trouble for?

Any help is greatly appreciated,
Joe.



P.S. Thanks for the help but please don't try to educate me on how to properly install H.I.D. systems..about projector headlights and OEM installations and all the differences and how the light will scatter in non-OEM HID installations. I know, I know, I know.


I think the same charge as too bright of a light.
If your's is a light that throws to much light and the green cover reduces it then you are ok.

Cheers
Viper1

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 2:10 am 
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They are not illegal.

Refresh me i thought the 12 000 k didnt refer to a brightness but dont those lights give off a purple glow?

I believe the 4300 k are the stock they are a crystal white.

The 6 k are like a diamond blue i think or a blue-diamond white.

12 k must be purple?

I forget but they arent illegal or blinding. Infact they have less glow then halogens they are just brighter and sharper, from what i heard there is less "glare"


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 2:36 am 
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I was under the impression that only so many watts are allowed 1 # for low beam and another for high.?
It has bean a while since I was setting these up.

Cheers
Viper1

_________________
"hang onto your chair when reading my posts
use at your own risk"


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 11:46 am 
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Location: somewhere in traffic
As far as the HTA goes, headlights are covered by the lumens they produce. However, I have noticed on my Mazda3 that the lights basically cut off at a certain height. All those lumens are tremendously focused, which is why they are so bright. Now the standard wattage for the ballist is 35, but that includes running the ballist as well, pretty much the same as CFL bulbs for your house. I think you can find your answer here http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/statutes/english/elaws_statutes_90h08_e.htm#BK116,
look in section 62.

Just reread that, 300 candelas and 110m. You'll have to google that one.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 2:12 pm 
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Location: Guelph, Ontario
Green is perhaps the easiest colour on eyes, and is often utilized by people who read a lot. Also, human eye's sensor is the most sensitive in green colour-space (as opposed to blues and reds, human eye can only see these 3 basic colours), so it does make it easier to see better. I have been blinded multiple times by people with too bright a lights, but those with regular cars (aka NOT pickups/minivans/SUVs) have their headlights sitting rather low, and the only thing that's lit up is the road... Heck, I've been blinded when some idiot on a pickup truck decided to tailgate me with powerful bulbs, reflection from the rearview mirror was strong enough...

Kelvin is temperature (of emitted light) that corresponds to certain values. You can have a very high-output IR and very low-output UV, although they correspond to 2 completely different Kelvin temperatures.

Truth is that a green cover plate will block any other colours, except the green ones, so the total power output is reduced by the amount of all the colours that were blocked out. So, in all likelihood, you did, in fact, reduce intensity.

The regulations do say "No more than 300 lumens". See here: http://www.ontariohighwaytrafficact.com/topic610.html

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 2:33 pm 
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Headlights must produce "white light only". Some appear blue, yellow etc, but once it hits the ground it still must be white,yellow.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 4:36 pm 
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Location: Durham
Thanks for all the replies everyone, just so everyone is clear, these aren't green covers over the headlights, it as the actual bulb with different gases that creates a green light to be projected.

For tdrive2: You are right, the Kelvin rating doesn't refer to brightness, and the 12000K does give off a purple glow. But installing HID's into cars that weren't made for them does give off a lot of glare and tend to be quite blinding for other drivers at night.

For Reflections: Thanks for that link, I read it and the only 2 things I may be in conflict with are 62. (1) ....white or amber light only. My lights are very green, I couldn't even play it off as being white or yellow with a hint of green.

As far as 300 candelas...I only know the rough amount of lumens my lights put out. I don't know how to convert that..anyone? If it is roughly the same then that doesn't make any sense. Even my 12 000k lights that produce a very low amount of lumens compared to other Kelvin ratings produce over 2000lm which is almost 7 times the legal limit of Candela.

http://avexracing.com/shop/index.php?main_page=page_3
Go to that link and scroll to the bottom for a small list of Kelvin ratings and the Lumens they produce.

Stock HID's on BMW's, Mercedes...lots of new cars...are all 4300k which is 3600lm!!! So they have tons more light output than mine.

What sort of fine am I looking at for having these green lights though? $110? $200? Demerit points?

Thanks everyone!


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 11:35 pm 
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Quote:
these aren't green covers over the headlights, it as the actual bulb with different gases that creates a green light to be projected.


The green may throw off other drivers, expecting the front of other vehicles to have white or yellow.....Are your marker lights the correct colours??

As far as the lumen or candela count goes, I have yet to see an officer with any sort of measurement device and don't think there would be a practical application of it road side.

And just for you halogen headlighters out there, once you drive with HID's, you won't go back.........I OWN THE NIGHT, hahaha :D

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 12:43 am 
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Yeah my marker lights are all the right colours. I have the 2 amber side markers up front, 2 red side markers near the rear and my front turn signals are amber as well.

If the green lights "throw you off" and you cant tell a vehicle is heading your way...you shouldn't be on the road in the first place.

And I just wanted to mention, the cops here in Durham seem to be pretty lax about these lighting laws and what not. I drove around with solid green and sometimes solid purple underglow on my car last year for about 3 months with no problems from the police. I think this is the way it should be, if anything, it is making my car more visible to other people and thus creating a safer driving environment. If you get distracted to the point of losing control of your vehicle...I'll say it again, you shouldn't be on the road in the first place.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 12:32 pm 
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Quote:
If the green lights "throw you off" and you cant tell a vehicle is heading your way...you shouldn't be on the road in the first place.


We have all gotten used to understanding the direction a vehicle by which lights we see, red or white/yellow. Green is for firefighters. I understand you desire to be an individual and personalizing your car, but don't go too far too fast.....you'll confuse the rest of us...... :D

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:17 pm 
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Quote:
We have all gotten used to understanding the direction a vehicle by which lights we see, red or white/yellow. Green is for firefighters. I understand you desire to be an individual and personalizing your car, but don't go too far too fast.....you'll confuse the rest of us...... :D


lol intermittent flashes of green is for firefighters. Says that right in the Highway Traffic Act, I checked it when I had my underglow.

Just to give everyone a better "picture" of the situation, here is a picture taken at night of my headlight...

Image

Still though, is there an active police officer that could tell me the ticket he would write me if he felt it necessary to charge me with something?

I would really like to way the risk associated with these lights to decide if I keep them or not, thanks.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 9:30 am 
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Joe1212

Thanks for the picture, however that alone is not enough. Such as the blue lights we see, they look blue at them, however still transmit a white light onto the road surface, hence those are still legal.

Improper headlights is $110 no points.

An officer could take this further, that since the vehicle does not have proper headlights (same as driving without headlights or one headlight out), it can no longer proceed down the highway at times when lights are required. So option for driver (pending location stopped) is to leave it and pick the vehicle back up in daylight or have it towed.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 9:56 am 
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hwybear

Thanks a lot for letting me know that. It helps a lot, I will keep it all in mind, at least I know what I'm looking at now in terms of a monetary fine.

Thanks.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 1:33 am 
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hwybear are you saying the only "legal" HID lights are those 4300 k OEM bulbs. They are pure crystal white.

What about the 6 k they are like a whitish diamond blue.

but are the 8k and the 12k illegal?

Thanks!

I thought many BMW's and other high end european cars have that blue tint dont they ship with the 6 k HID's?


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