Red light camera ticket while turning right

leshka
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Red light camera ticket while turning right

Unread post by leshka on

Hi,

I just got a red light camera ticket (form 5) from Bronson/Carling intersection in Ottawa.

I clearly remember that I was making a right turn and stop signals as well as the right turning signal are visible on the first picture. (I most likely did a rolling stop, but lets pretend I did not say that). The reason I remember this so well is because it was at night (2:49am) and I got blinded by the flash.

Now on the second picture that is supposed to be showing me crossing the intersection shows absolutely empty intersection (it is night time though so it is actually extremely unclear) because by that time I already completed the right turn.

Two questions:

-Do I have enough evidence to have the ticket dismissed (I will try to post the scanned copy of the ticket a bit later)?

-Is it possible to somehow fight it by mail? I now work in Montreal and there is no way I can come in to court during a week day.


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Unread post by racer on

1) Yes.

2) Yes, however, the crown might provide additional arguments to which your mail-in submission might or might not answer.
"The more laws, the less justice" - Marcus Tullius Cicero
"The hardest thing to explain is the obvious"

www.OHTA.ca & www.OntarioHighwayTrafficAct.com


leshka
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Unread post by leshka on

I guess I should have been a little bit more specific in my question:

-Would arguing that I made a full stop, and then proceeded through an intersection making a right turn get me out of the ticket? Supporting this with a claim that the stop lights and turn signal are on?
-Would the fact that my car is not even present on the second picture be enough by itself to dismiss the ticket?

-How does mail-in trial work? Do I have to call somewhere to arrange that? There is no information on the ticket about that.

By the way the ticket is here:
http://i769.photobucket.com/albums/xx33 ... 010886.jpg

I appreciate all comments and advice.


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Unread post by liveontheedge on

If this goes to trial, you don't need to take the stand to lie that you made a full stop (perjury is a serious offence). The burden of proof is on the prosecutor to prove the charge, you will cross examine the witness and/or poke holes into the prosecutor arguments to create doubt or to prove there was not enough evidence to warrant the charge in your case as your car is not seen in the second picture.

There are cases in the red light ticket section of this forum that may give you more info. Good luck


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Unread post by racer on

So, basically, you completed a turn in 1.5 seconds. You might argue that you did stop for a split second and then proceeded to make the right turn. But I am fairly certain your car needs to be in that second picture.
"The more laws, the less justice" - Marcus Tullius Cicero
"The hardest thing to explain is the obvious"

www.OHTA.ca & www.OntarioHighwayTrafficAct.com


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Unread post by racer on

"The more laws, the less justice" - Marcus Tullius Cicero
"The hardest thing to explain is the obvious"

www.OHTA.ca & www.OntarioHighwayTrafficAct.com


macker1962
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Unread post by macker1962 on

I got exactly the same sort of ticket at the same intersection. The car is in my wife's name can I represent her in court? What is the procedure to do this?


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Unread post by admin on

Red light camera tickets should not be fought the traditional way. You will lose in trial. Why? Well there is a Picture of YOU going through the red light! :P

It might be better to just try to get a plea bargain and get your fine reduced.


leshka
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Unread post by leshka on

I called the court and Yes, anybody can represent you at the trial, the ticket is given to your car, not to you. But I think I am just going to pay it. The camera only triggers if you are going through the intersection faster then 25km/hr, the prosecution will just simply argue that I did not make a full stop before turning right. (that is what I was told) I'd rather pay $180 then waste half of my day on going to court.


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Unread post by Plenderzoosh on

leshka wrote: The camera only triggers if you are going through the intersection faster then 25km/hr
...now I know how to beat the system, no more red lights for me :lol:


rbee
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Unread post by rbee on

but in this case, the driver made a right turn... are you saying that you will still lose if you use this argument?
admin wrote:Red light camera tickets should not be fought the traditional way. You will lose in trial. Why? Well there is a Picture of YOU going through the red light! :P

It might be better to just try to get a plea bargain and get your fine reduced.


Off_Camber
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Unread post by Off_Camber on

you must come to a complete stop even making a right on a red. the HTA doesnt state a time frame for how long you must stop. it could be for a millionth of a nanosecond or three seconds, 5 seconds, 5 years whatever.
fight it. why give the province or city any more money. its worth a shot.


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Unread post by Reflections on

Off_Camber wrote:you must come to a complete stop even making a right on a red. the HTA doesnt state a time frame for how long you must stop. it could be for a millionth of a nanosecond or three seconds, 5 seconds, 5 years whatever.
fight it. why give the province or city any more money. its worth a shot.
Do split atoms for living cuz that is some accurate right there......
http://www.OHTA.ca OR http://www.OntarioTrafficAct.com


katteve
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Unread post by katteve on

I received a similar ticket at that intersection of Bronson Avenue and Carling Avenue. I will be fighting this ticket and it appears that they have made my argument for me. The ticket states I approached the intersection after the light had been red for 4.6 seconds, and proceeded through the intersection when the light had been red for 6.3 seconds. So, where was i for the difference of 1.7 seconds, i was stopped. The same as you, my car is not in the second picture either.


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Unread post by admin on

rbee wrote:but in this case, the driver made a right turn... are you saying that you will still lose if you use this argument?
admin wrote:Red light camera tickets should not be fought the traditional way. You will lose in trial. Why? Well there is a Picture of YOU going through the red light! :P

It might be better to just try to get a plea bargain and get your fine reduced.
Don't think it matters. The camera's and the technology used are well aware of right turns. So if you made a rolling stop then well you didn't stop and that is considered running a red light.

If you do take this to trial please keep us updated.






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