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Careless Driving, failed to stop for sign
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 8:17 pm 
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Hi,

I got a careless driving ticket and I was involved in quite a serious accident. I was driving at about 60 km/h arriving towards a stop sign. Unfortunately when I tried to stop, my shoes were sliding off from my foot as they did not have any strap and were perhaps oversized and slippery. I could not stop at the sign and hit a van that had the right of way. Both vehicles were badly damaged and had to be towed. I ended up also hitting a fire hydrant.

I know I am definitely at fault here and it was very stupid to drive in those shoes and I was just too lazy to change them, but I'd still like to know what I can do. I intend to take it to trial. Can I get a lesser charge?

Are their grounds for issuing a careless drivng ticket that it was careless to drive with thise shoes? Are there any laws specifying criteria that footwear must meet. If so what is the criteria? Is there anyway to prove that my footwear was not unsafe even though it was?

I have not yet requested disclosure but will do so. I was asked why I crashed and witnesses said I didn't stop and was going fast. The police told me it was extremely negligent to drive in the shoes I was wearing and they looked impossible to drive in. They took some notes but I don't know what's in the notes.

I currently have no non expired points on my licence.

Also I was not driving my car but a Friend's truck. Will only her rates be affected since its not my car (I will arange to sort things with her)?

Thanks. Please help


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Re: Careless Driving, failed to stop for sign
PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 9:54 pm 
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The careless driving part isn't the shoes. At this point, getting into the footwear in court is not likely to help you... for example:

You: "My shoes weren't unsafe..."
Prosecutor: "So what else made you not stop?"

In other words... opening a can of worms. The fact that you weren't able to control the vehicle is why you were charged with careless driving.

Disclosure or not, the only thing I can really suggest is that you try to negotiate a lesser charge of failing to stop at a stop sign... And obviously changing your shoes. They'll probably ask for a higher fine than the normal "disobey stop sign" amount, but you get 3 demerit points as opposed to 6, and the other thing to consider is that in many cases if you get convicted of careless driving as a result of a collision, insurance companies tend to terminate your coverage. You don't want a careless driving conviction on your record.

Your friend might be looking at an insurance increase, but could avoid it or minimize it if she agrees to not let you drive her truck and her insurance company makes that a condition of continuing to insure her.

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* The above is NOT legal advice. By acting on anything I have said, you assume responsibility for any outcome and consequences. *
http://www.OntarioTicket.com OR http://www.OHTA.ca


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Re: Careless Driving, failed to stop for sign
PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2014 2:57 am 
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Radar Identified wrote:
The careless driving part isn't the shoes. At this point, getting into the footwear in court is not likely to help you... for example:

You: "My shoes weren't unsafe..."
Prosecutor: "So what else made you not stop?"

In other words... opening a can of worms. The fact that you weren't able to control the vehicle is why you were charged with careless driving.

Disclosure or not, the only thing I can really suggest is that you try to negotiate a lesser charge of failing to stop at a stop sign... And obviously changing your shoes. They'll probably ask for a higher fine than the normal "disobey stop sign" amount, but you get 3 demerit points as opposed to 6, and the other thing to consider is that in many cases if you get convicted of careless driving as a result of a collision, insurance companies tend to terminate your coverage. You don't want a careless driving conviction on your record.

Your friend might be looking at an insurance increase, but could avoid it or minimize it if she agrees to not let you drive her truck and her insurance company makes that a condition of continuing to insure her.


Thanks they will stlll probably have record about what I said concerning my shoes and will probably ask the question anyway. Should I agree to driving in unsafe footwear and just basically beg for a lesser charge then? Can't I find any other reason for not stopping? In a previous case (the 2nd case mentioned topic6351.html ) I was adviced by an experienced person to deny that my shoes were dangerous which was true for that accident and had charges dropped by proving mechanical defect.
The shoes I was wearing this time do have like an ankle lace that can be tied to prevent it slipping but I wasn't using that. Can't I add that part back and show it in court saying there's no way it could slip because of that or would that land me in more trouble due to previous statemenetc.contradicting.

Is there no reasonable excuse to claim this accident was not preventable?
Should I have plead not guilty or try to take a plea deal? I got careless driving completely dropped before (got lucky for no witness for one by purposely delaying trial) but I understand this one is more serious due to the extent of damage etc.

Do you think there is a high change if getting a lesser charge. The people I asked seemed to think my chances aren't looking good.


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Re: Careless Driving, failed to stop for sign
PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2014 3:32 pm 
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If you plea bargain to a lesser charge (and they take it), the question about shoes is gone. If you approach the Prosecutor about seeking a lesser penalty, that's about your best chance here. You did fail to stop. In many cases, pleading down from careless to something like "disobey stop sign" is a fairly common occurrence. The key thing is, you have to plea-bargain. If you go to trial, you should definitely have a paralegal there.

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* The above is NOT legal advice. By acting on anything I have said, you assume responsibility for any outcome and consequences. *
http://www.OntarioTicket.com OR http://www.OHTA.ca


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Re: Careless Driving, failed to stop for sign
PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2014 3:42 pm 
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Radar Identified wrote:
If you plea bargain to a lesser charge (and they take it), the question about shoes is gone. If you approach the Prosecutor about seeking a lesser penalty, that's about your best chance here. You did fail to stop. In many cases, pleading down from careless to something like "disobey stop sign" is a fairly common occurrence. The key thing is, you have to plea-bargain. If you go to trial, you should definitely have a paralegal there.


Thank you so much. I think the plea bargain seems to be the best option. Do they consider circumstances and ask questions for a plea bargain? Is there a high chance of success of bargaining for failing to stop then. What are the consequences of a failing to stop charge apart from the 3 points?

It would be nice to get it dropped completely but that doesn't seem to be an option? I've really gotten myself in a bad situation.


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Re: Careless Driving, failed to stop for sign
PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2014 4:07 pm 
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About $185 to $500 fine. But keep in mind: If you get convicted of Careless Driving, your insurance company may terminate your coverage. (Some do, some don't.) They take that very seriously. While, as a licenced driver, you have a right to insurance, you'd then possibly be forced onto facility insurance... which is astronomically expensive.

Getting it dropped completely... given the circumstances, I don't see that happening. You might get very lucky a second time, but I wouldn't bet on it or hope for it.

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* The above is NOT legal advice. By acting on anything I have said, you assume responsibility for any outcome and consequences. *
http://www.OntarioTicket.com OR http://www.OHTA.ca


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Re: Careless Driving, failed to stop for sign
PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2014 6:15 pm 
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Radar Identified wrote:
While, as a licenced driver, you have a right to insurance, you'd then possibly be forced onto facility insurance... which is astronomically expensive.

Considering the OP has had 3 at fault collisions in as many months, even if this charge goes away like the rest, I think skyrocketing insurance rates is a given.


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Re: Careless Driving, failed to stop for sign
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 4:02 pm 
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Atmospheric, which probably isn't a bad thing.

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Re: Careless Driving, failed to stop for sign
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 4:33 pm 
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Stanton wrote:
Radar Identified wrote:
While, as a licenced driver, you have a right to insurance, you'd then possibly be forced onto facility insurance... which is astronomically expensive.

Considering the OP has had 3 at fault collisions in as many months, even if this charge goes away like the rest, I think skyrocketing insurance rates is a given.

argyll wrote:
Atmospheric, which probably isn't a bad thing.


Obviously I have to deal with that and can't prevent it. But I'm glad to have the charges dismissed.

This accident did not occur with my own car.


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Re: Careless Driving, failed to stop for sign
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 4:42 pm 
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It will still count against you with your insurance agency. There's the Collision Report and you'll have to declare it on renewal anyway.

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Former Ontario Police Officer. Advice will become less relevant as the time goes by !


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