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What's up with motorized vehicles that are not licenced??
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 4:37 pm 
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I searched but could not retrieve a satisfactory answer.

It seems matter-of-fact that all sorts of work equipment, namely backhoes, loaders and other similar mororized vehicles without licence plates, sometimes equipped with a slow moving vehicle sign, often not, some with an amber beacon, some without, are encountered on a highway, travelling under their own power, sometimes on multi-lane roads and often for considerable distances.

I was under the impression that these vehicles are not licenced to be on a highway and have to be trailered between work sites. Am I wrong??
I see many close calls with these slow moving, mobile traffic jams and wonder why this seems to be acceptable, yet an ATV or similar vehicle generally has to stay off the highway.

Insights?


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Re: What's up with motorized vehicles that are not licenced?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 6:00 pm 
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They are classified as "work Equipment", and so far as I know, (for sure my company) you must have a permit to operate them on roadways etc...

By permit I mean not a plate, but permission.

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Re: What's up with motorized vehicles that are not licenced?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 9:26 pm 
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cattlerepairman wrote:
I searched but could not retrieve a satisfactory answer.

It seems matter-of-fact that all sorts of work equipment, namely backhoes, loaders and other similar mororized vehicles without licence plates, sometimes equipped with a slow moving vehicle sign, often not, some with an amber beacon, some without, are encountered on a highway, travelling under their own power, sometimes on multi-lane roads and often for considerable distances.

I was under the impression that these vehicles are not licenced to be on a highway and have to be trailered between work sites. Am I wrong??
I see many close calls with these slow moving, mobile traffic jams and wonder why this seems to be acceptable, yet an ATV or similar vehicle generally has to stay off the highway.

Insights?


You would rather have a truck come along to move them 1/2 mile or less?(imagine that traffic mess)

How would you build the road without these vehicles?
That said there should be a flag-person or blinking lights when moving.

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Re: What's up with motorized vehicles that are not licenced?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 9:19 am 
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My question is not meant to offend the construction industry.

If there is indeed a "permit" of some sort, what is it based on? How are these vehicles insured for on-road use? Are they subject to a safety and emissions inspection, similar to other vehicles that use highways?
Clearly, many of these vehicles are not built for road use (lack of suspension, slow speed, not all wheels braked, operator safety devices, protruding parts etc.).

I just want to have some information that dispells my impression that authorities simply permit a double-standard for on-road use without any basis in the HTA whatsoever.
If the above observations do not matter, then we should not need any registration/plates/insurance for similar vehicles that are slow and do not fulfill the same technical standards as a modern vehicle (historic vehicles, such as a Ford Model T, for example) and we should be ok using ATVs on the highway for short distances as well ("imagine the effort if we had to trailer these", just to use a previous poster's argument).

I understand the need for these vehicles to get from one work site to another and the clear need for some to work on the road (a grader or loader for snow removal, for example). I am still not convinced that "because" is a sufficient argument to drive them on a highway in a non-working capacity for pure relocation. The same right should then be extended to other vehicles or other people. Why can the loader move under the above provisions, but one has to pay dear money to get the same privilege for the dump truck?

I re-iterate my original question: Where in the HTA is the basis for such vehicles not registered for road use to use a public highway?


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Re: What's up with motorized vehicles that are not licenced?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 5:26 pm 
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Location: In YOUR rearview mirror!
HTA Definitions Sec 1
road-building machine” means a self-propelled vehicle of a design commonly used in the construction or maintenance of highways, including but not limited to,
(a) asphalt spreaders, concrete paving or finishing machines, motor graders, rollers, tractor-dozers and motor scrapers,
(b) tracked and wheeled tractors of all kinds while equipped with mowers, post-hole diggers, compactors, weed spraying equipment, snow blowers and snow plows, front-end loaders, back-hoes or rock drills, and
(c) power shovels on tracks and drag lines on tracks,
but not including a commercial motor vehicle;

"commercial motor vehicle” means a motor vehicle having permanently attached thereto a truck or delivery body and includes ambulances, hearses, casket wagons, fire apparatus, buses and tractors used for hauling purposes on the highways

motor vehicle” includes an automobile, a motorcycle, a motor-assisted bicycle unless otherwise indicated in this Act, and any other vehicle propelled or driven otherwise than by muscular power,
but DOES NOT include a street car or other motor vehicle running only upon rails, a power-assisted bicycle, a motorized snow vehicle, a traction engine, a farm tractor, a self-propelled implement of husbandry or a road-building machine

Permit requirements
7. (1) No person shall drive a motor vehicle on a highway unless,
(a) there exists a currently validated permit for the vehicle;
(b) there are displayed on the vehicle, in the prescribed manner,
(i) number plates

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Above is merely a suggestion/thought and in no way constitutes legal advice or views of my employer. www.OHTA.ca


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Re: What's up with motorized vehicles that are not licenced?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 5:24 pm 
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Hwybear, thank you. So, what you posted means that a road building machine is a motor vehicle under the HTA and therefore has to have a permit and display license plates in order to travel on a highway.

I have yet to see one that does.


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Re: What's up with motorized vehicles that are not licenced?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 6:19 pm 
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cattlerepairman wrote:
Hwybear, thank you. So, what you posted means that a road building machine is a motor vehicle under the HTA and therefore has to have a permit and display license plates in order to travel on a highway.
.


That is not correct. I will break out the definition a little bit here....

motor vehicle
INCLUDES
-an automobile,
- a motorcycle,
- a motor-assisted bicycle unless otherwise indicated in this Act and
- any other vehicle propelled or driven otherwise than by muscular power (ie ATV, golf carts etc)
but DOES NOT include
- a street car or
- other motor vehicle running only upon rails,
- a power-assisted bicycle,
- a motorized snow vehicle,
- a traction engine, a farm tractor,
- a self-propelled implement of husbandry or
- a road-building machine

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Re: What's up with motorized vehicles that are not licenced?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 6:25 pm 
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My bad. That makes it very clear now.
So, a backhoe is not a motor vehicle as per the HTA and it ends right there. End of confusion!


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Re: What's up with motorized vehicles that are not licenced?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 2:29 pm 
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so if i understand if i have a snow plow mounted and am moving from site to site i can now drive my atv on the road. have heard lots of back and forth on this one and no one can come up with a 100 % answer. i use my atv for driveways and sidewalks so one would think with amber lights and what you said this is ok ?


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Re: What's up with motorized vehicles that are not licenced?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 6:24 pm 
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An ATV with a snow plow attached to the front doesn't become any more of a "snow plow vehicle" for the purpose of the HTA than does a pickup truck with a plow on the front. You would drive your pickup truck on the road uninsured and unplated just because it has a plow on it, would you? "Snow plow" in the HTA is meant to refer to those purpose build machines driven around by guys who work for the city.

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Re: What's up with motorized vehicles that are not licenced?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 9:36 am 
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Simon Borys wrote:
An ATV with a snow plow attached to the front doesn't become any more of a "snow plow vehicle" for the purpose of the HTA than does a pickup truck with a plow on the front. You would drive your pickup truck on the road uninsured and unplated just because it has a plow on it, would you? "Snow plow" in the HTA is meant to refer to those purpose build machines driven around by guys who work for the city.


Simon, if this is indeed so, it re-opens my original question about backhoes. If the interpretation of the vehicle categories for the purpose of the HTA is indeed as narrow as you indicate for snow plow vehicles (meaning: a purpose-built plow used by a municipality or similar, not a privately owned pickup with a plow or an ATV with a plow), logic would suggest that the same principle be applied for road-building vehicle (then meaning a vehicle actually being used to build a road, not just any Dick, Tom or Harry that has a backhoe for foundation excavation, septic systems or general construction work and trundles along between job sites).


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Re: What's up with motorized vehicles that are not licenced?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 10:49 am 
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I think that the pickup or ATV with the snow plow doesn't count as a "snow plow" because it's first and foremost a pickup or an ATV and thus should be licenced like that. Backhoes or whatnot are simply what they are, and I don't think it matters if it's being used in a professional or amateur capacity, since these vehicles are not really anything other than what they are (i.e. a machine for digging, etc).

With respect to the slow moving vehicle sign question, remember that section applies to "vehicles", not just "motor vehicles. Street cars, other motor vehicles running only upon rails, power-assisted bicycles, motorized snow vehicles, traction engines, farm tractors, self-propelled implements of husbandry, and road-building machines are not "motor vehicles" but they do meet the definition of "vehicle" under the HTA so slow moving vehicle sign requirements do apply to them.

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Re: What's up with motorized vehicles that are not licenced?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 8:41 pm 
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Location: In YOUR rearview mirror!
Simply a truck and plow must be properly licenced to be on any highway as it is defined a motor vehicle. Use of flashing blue lights is also prohibited on private snow removal equipment.

A backhoe is by definition a roadbuilding machine

An ATV is defined as a Off-Road Vehicle and can not be on any highway (all area between property lines- ditch, shoulder, sidewalk, roadway) unless
- drive directly across a highway
- farmer using it for agricultural purposes with a slow moving vehicle sign
- licenced trapper with a slow moving vehicle sign
- highway is designated by Provincial government (northern ontario)
- highway is designated thru a Municipal bylaw for ATV use

Slow Moving Vehicle Sign - Slow moving vehicles
HTA 76
(2) The following are slow moving vehicles:
1. Farm tractors and self-propelled implements of husbandry.
2. Vehicles (other than bicycles, motor assisted bicycles and disabled motor vehicles in tow) that are not capable of attaining and sustaining a speed greater than 40 kilometres per hour on level ground when operated on a highway.
3. Motor vehicles towing an implement of husbandry

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Re: What's up with motorized vehicles that are not licenced?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 9:40 pm 
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so now by what you say hwybear by def. of HTA a side x side is not classed as an Off-Road Vehicle due to lack of handel bars and a seat like a car so joe blow can have a bobcat skid steer witch is harder on the road surface and is ok but jim blow cant due the excact same thing ( i will give u the atv thing because it is defined in the HTA but side x sides are NOT atvs under HTA) not trying to give any one a hard time just my 2 cents and yes blue lights have never bean aloud on personal or privet plows on the roads unless under contract by town or city


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Re: What's up with motorized vehicles that are not licenced?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 10:37 pm 
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Location: In YOUR rearview mirror!
off-road vehicle” means a vehicle propelled or driven otherwise than by muscular power or wind and designed to travel,
(a) on not more than three wheels, or
(b) on more than three wheels and being of a prescribed class of vehicle

the following classes of vehicles are prescribed:
1. Dune buggies.
1.1 Vehicles designed for use on all terrains, commonly known as all-terrain vehicles, that have steering handlebars and a seat that is designed to be straddled by the driver.
1.2 Vehicles designed for utility applications or uses on all terrains that have four or more wheels and a seat that is not designed to be straddled by the driver.
***********************
Both the HTA (larger penalties) or ORVA can be used for enforcement on highways

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