142km on 401 going west, near 401 exit to Homer Watson Blvd

Date: 2009, April 5th, 11:16pm

Location: 401 exit to Homer Watson Blvd, Kitchener/ Cambridge.

I was going on 401. When I was approaching the location mentioned at the topic, I tried to over take a truck in front of me, and realized a car tailgating me right after I went out to the fast lane. At first I thought it was some other fast drivers so I just thought that I would go back into the middle lane after.

However, right after I went on the fast lane, the car behind was a police car and then got pulled over at the mentioned exit.

The officer then came to my car asking for driver's license, insurance and ownership, which I gave. I tried asking him questions, but he was not really answering anything, and even ignored me when I tried to stop him. He went back to his police car, and later gave me the ticket with 142 km, $317 fine. Details are as follows:

Date: 2009 April, 5th, 11:16pm

Motor vehicle involved: no

At: HWY 401, CAMBRIDGE

Did commit the offence of: Speeding 142km/h in a posted 100 km/h zone

Contrary to: Highway Traffic Act

Sect. 128

Plate number: *******

Year: 01

Make: **

Collusion involved: N

Witness: N

And I further certify that I served an offence notice personally upon the person charged: On the offence date

Set fine of: 252

Total Payable: $317

I'm a 20 year old guy (turning 21 soon), with a G2 (and getting G on 1st May)

The vehicle was 2009 rabbit, and there were no passengers with me at that time.

After the officer gave me the ticket, I tried to ask him questions about it, but he just ignored me and left.

The speed 142 was from his on board speed detector/radar (I have no idea what that is)

I then got out of my car, and approached his vehicle,( I know this is stupid) then he said that he would arrest me if i didn't just get on my car and leave.

I have a few questions:

1) If I go to court, how big is the chance for me to completely get rid of the ticket?

2) I was looking for ticket fighters, but have also seem forums saying that the whole court thing is a scam, is that true?

3) What is the cheapest way to settle this? Given that insurance will increase 10% (of the $57XX that I am paying currently).

4) What is the best way (or cheapest way) to handle this situation?

5) How long with the whole process take? My insurance will renew in Sept 26th, 2009, is it wise to try to delay the court hearing as late as possible for that?

Thanks for the help!

That fine amount looks wrong...... And the wrong fine amount is a fatal flaw

And next time don't get out of the car...

Ya, I wont get out of the car net time, it was really dumb.... javascript:emoticon('')

I am still researching, like I was checking the on-line highway traffic act.

(once again, thanks to this forum, I learn a lot from it), and read the following:

Penalty

(14) Every person who contravenes this section or any by-law or regulation made under this section is guilty of an offence and on conviction is liable, where the rate of speed at which the motor vehicle was driven,

(a) is less than 20 kilometres per hour over the speed limit, to a fine of $3 for each kilometre per hour that the motor vehicle was driven over the speed limit;

(b) is 20 kilometres per hour or more but less than 30 kilometres per hour over the speed limit, to a fine of $4.50 for each kilometre per hour that the motor vehicle was driven over the speed limit;

(c) is 30 kilometres per hour or more but less than 50 kilometres per hour over the speed limit, to a fine of $7 for each kilometre per hour that the motor vehicle was driven over the speed limit; and

(d) is 50 kilometres per hour or more over the speed limit, to a fine of $9.75 for each kilometre per hour that the motor vehicle was driven over the speed limit. 2005, c. 26, Sched. A, s. 17 (7).

found on http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/statut ... .htm#BK234

If its $7 per kilometer, above 100km, then (142km-100km)X $7 = $294, if there is a set fine, then total should be $294+$252=$546?

OR

if its $7 per kilometer, above 130km, then (142km-130km)X $7 = $84, if there is a set fine of $252, then should be $252 +$84 = $336?

Am I right or not? And where did the set fines come from?? Are there actually any set fines/ base fines for speeding?

Also, if charging the wrong fine is a fatal error, does it mean that there is a high chance that the ticket can be dismissed? Or they can just adjust the fine or lower it to another amount?

Thanks a lot!

$294+Victim surcharge of 25%= $371.25......

I could be off with the victim surcharge.....

It's a hefty fine and could effect your insurance, paralegals can help, some will only go and plea down, other have arguing abilities....

Any recommendations for actually getting rid of the whole thing together?

I dont want a record on my license/ car/ anywhere.

Reflections is 100% right that an incorrect fine amount is a fatal flaw, but there's a catch. The amounts in the Highway Traffic Act are the statutory amounts. According to the Provincial Offences Act, a part 1 offence (which is what you got) can be anywhere from $0 to $500. A Justice, in court, could give you the statutory amount (which is in the HTA) or lower it or raise it, within the $0 to $500 range. Several years ago, the Chief Justice of Ontario put in place "set fines," which reflect an amount that someone would get if they settled out of court. For 30-49 km/h over, the set fine is $6 per km/h, so it would be $252, plus the victim surcharge and $5 court cost that is automatically added. Looks like the amount was correct.

However... I wouldn't necessarily say that this means that you've got a guaranteed conviction. You've got a lot of options before you, including pleading to a lesser charge, fighting the ticket, getting a paralegal involved, etc. You can shop around and see which paralegals would be willing to fight it all the way, and which ones will plead it down. If it is a matter of pleading it down, you can do that yourself.

I usually suggest fighting it, in that it buys you time to gather all of the information and make an informed decision as to how to proceed. Send the ticket in, get a trial date set and make a disclosure request. Be sure to ask, specifically, for the officer's notes, an explanation and clarification of the charge, and a copy of the manual of the speed measurement device that was used to record your speed. Once you get all of that, you can decide what to do. Good luck with it.

Any tips on choosing a better representative/paralegal/ ticket fighter to do it all the way? How much do they usually cost?

GTKY wrote:

Any tips on choosing a better representative/paralegal/ ticket fighter to do it all the way? How much do they usually cost?

I read somewhere that OTT legal is sponsoring this site, nudge, nudge, wink, wink.

Very interesting was the officer already speeding before you got in that lane?

Send me a PM i spend drive alot through there.

Next time you pass put your blinkers on.

Although you are right the flow of traffic on that area of the 401 is very fast. The officers there seem to drive very fast to.

This year i have seen a certain Female officer from that detachment and every time i always amazed to see her going 20-30 over the speed limit.

Anyways looks like she got you with Genesis 2 or a stalker with front facing radar at your rear.

Was it a marked or unmarked car?

Anyways thats to bad the officer wouldn't help.

His local detachment is right off Exit 282 on the 401.

It is just north of the 401 on exit 282.

Maybee drop by and see if they will answer some of your questions.

Take it to court.

What's a marked or an unmarked vehicle?

I did use blinkers when I changed lane, what I think is that the copper followed me for some time and I thought it was just another fast car.

Also, any idea on how accurate those on-board speed detectors are?

Thanks!

If he was right behind you while driving he probably was using K or Ka band Stalker or Genesis II.

IF he was right behind you with radar im sorry but he got you....

It would be different at the side of the road though...

Anyways the public pays police to serve the public. I would call his detachment you can look them up at the OPP's website. Either that or go there and perhaps see if you can get ahold of him for an explanation of the charge.

Either that or you'll have to wait to see him on your court date.

How fast were you going before you realized that someone was tailgating you?

Officers are not exempt from tailgating charges. If s/he was tailgating you you can argue that you sped up because of that, which is also an excellent defence.

I think I was going around 130, then speed up a bit when I saw the lights, didnt like people right behind, coz the headlights from behind really affect driving at 11pm.

At the same time i was approaching a truck, then as soon as I pulled out to the fast lane I was caught.

But do they have the right to speed thou? Coz I'm not allowed to speed anyway, right?

Also, will the cops video tape the whole thing?

GTKY wrote:

What's a marked or an unmarked vehicle?

Marked vehicle has the full light package and the painting with "OPP" or whatever the police service is. Unmarked is not painted with police lettering/decals and the lights are embedded so you can't, at first glance, tell it's a police car (unless you really know what you're looking for).

tdrive2 wrote:

I would call his detachment you can look them up at the OPP's website. Either that or go there and perhaps see if you can get ahold of him for an explanation of the charge.

That's what disclosure, First Attendance meeting or the trial is for. Officer's notes would probably have the most information at this point. As for seeking him out, probably won't do much.

GTKY wrote:

But do they have the right to speed thou?

For the most part, yes. If it is within the "lawful performance" of their duties, they are allowed to do so. However... racer did mention one important point: Tailgating, not really permitted. Would have to be that you did not knowingly exceed the speed limit initially, but upon having a car tailgating you, you accelerated to clear the way in safety. As for videotaping, I don't know, some police services have videotape, some do not. The disclosure package would have more information.

Ask for any recorded video from the cruiser as a part of Disclosure.

Sometimes police do have to get close to vehicles and appears to be "tail gating". The reason for this is to read a licence plate. If plates are faded, dirty, obstructed by tinted plate covers, rusty, etc..... OR licence plate light is burnt out, it makes it very difficult to read, even more so at night. Once plate is called into dispatch officer can back off and make a stop.

My car is a 2009 vw, the plate lights are fully functioning and the plates are clean. I just washed the car 2 days before the incident.

Couldn't police just lite their lights? I would pull over immediately if I see those behind me, then the officers would have more than enough time to check my plates after I stopped my car.

I think the plates are called in before a stop in case the car tries to run.

Ic, also, any information on how insurance reacts to these type of stuff generally?

Thanks

42 km/h over the limit is still a minor conviction, and I think most insurance companies will forgive one or two of those. I was with Motors Insurance (GMAC) and they forgave two minor convictions I got when I was 16 and 18, while FiReSTaRT had his rates increased.

The OPP's LED bars are the best.

I must admit you can see those from very very far away. They look cool to.

Off topic but i really hope you guys give tickets for those that fail to move over. You guys have a dangerous job as it is pulling people over all day on crowded highways with a bunch of drivers all in a hurry driving as fast as they can and you guys sit on the side of the road.

I hope you guys pull people over for that cause those lights are really easy to see !!!

I don't know how some of those guys put up with it especially in the GTA region.

I have no idea how they do it in toronto especially with that collector/express system and all the construction, what a mess.

GTKY wrote:

My car is a 2009 vw, the plate lights are fully functioning and the plates are clean. I just washed the car 2 days before the incident.

Couldn't police just lite their lights? I would pull over immediately if I see those behind me, then the officers would have more than enough time to check my plates after I stopped my car.

Our safety is first, I know our policy is to check plates prior to stop. Which is calling it in to dispatch and waiting for the information to come back about the owner, whether the vehicle is stolen or not, was it just involved in an armed robbery, plates are not "authorized" etc.. (sometimes checking plates takes time/ a few kms)

- Should the vehicle decide to run (Squishy thoughts), we now have a plate and less likely to initiate a pursuit.

- if the vehicle has problems as mentioned above, we will wait for a 2nd, 3rd, 4th unit to assist in the stop and not endanger our lives

was busy for some time, not back again.

with all due respect, I do understand that there are barriers and safety issues to consider at the officer's point of view.

However, i think that was not the case (which i might be wrong)

but here's what i think:

With what ever reason, when a police want to check a plate of a vehicle, all they need is to know the plate number and call in. It takes like a few seconds to do so. In my case, the officer behind me tailgated me for a few kilometers, is that absolutely necessary?

If there are safety issues for the officer such as the unknown identity of the driver, is any crime involved, shouldn't it be a reason for the officer to keep a safe distance? Also, even if the officer thinks that the vehicle in front is speeding, why would you want to tailgate that car to scare/ influence the car in front by shining the front lights at the rear view mirrors of the car in front?

In my situation, there was only one police car what followed me. I fully understand that the officer who was driving it had the full rights and responsibility to serve and protect all that are on the road, but wouldn't tailgating for a long period of time be against that?

Keep in mind that I tried to changed lanes so that the front lights aren't on the mirrors, and once I did that, the officer stopped me. If he thought I was speeding, shouldn't he stop me right after he checked my plate and driver background? instead of letting me speeding and endangering other drivers on the road?

I fully understand that checking one person's information out of the whole population in Canada takes time, but that does not mean that one can forget that other's might be endangered during the process, and would hope that that could be taken into consideration.

Also, on a side note, about another post that I read

Its just like another post on this forum, a 18 year old kid got a $800 fine from multiple tickets just because of thinking that the car behind him was being a jerk, which instead turned out to be a police car. If the police are truly to serve and protect, why would the guy be allowed to drive drive in the middle of the road as a result of speeding? And now the kid doesn't really even feel the punishment yet, its just that his parents have to pay the fine and increased insurance premiums. Who's being punished then?

Those are my thoughts. not sure if its right thou.