Hi I'm new to this forum but I hope I'm bringing you all good news. I recently wrote a book short titled ABUSE OF POWER This book is all about how the Ontario government broke the law to enact the new street racing legislation. To start with the denial of the right to remain innocent until proven guilty was enacted without due process under the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. How it wasn't done properly is in the language of Section 33.1 and is generally known as the Not Withstanding Clause. How it is interpreted makes a big difference. As well, the numbers the government used were pulled out of context from Ministry of Transport Charts that due to the way they are set up are nearly meaningless. The significance of street racing to the total accident picture is fractional. The government blew the issue way out of proportion without substantiating the numbers. In fact the numbers for 2006 and 2007 have not yet been released to the public. When they are, I will be the first to know because they will be issued to me first. So what were the numbers that were used to justify denying our rights? We don't know. My research covers the years 2000 to 2007. There are no street racing statistics at all. Street racing has never been significant enough to warrant a category of its own and it still isn't. Basically, the legislature had to have enacted the law based on fictional numbers. That is fraud. When the first cars were seized and towed under the Civil Remedies Act, that was car theft and extortion. The Civil Remedies Act was never intended to be used as it was and since it's federal legislation the province didn't have the option to change the wording. The wording is key and essentially confirms the police did not have a legal right to impound and crush anyone's cars. The money that had to be paid by those apprehended was done by extortion. My contention is that the Ontario government is going to have to pay all of that money back and then some to the victims of our various police forces' illegal actions. The reason I wrote the book is so that the general public is made aware that not only is the law illegal, but in other ways it destablizes all Ontario legislation. Section 172 is a law that needs to be re-written. But it won't be re-written unless enough people understand how dangerous this legislation is and gets informed enough to go after their MPPs knowledgeably. Elected officials don't like being harassed and they especially don't like to look like fools. If you want this law changed, the ball is entirely in your court. Your MPP is easily found on the net. I hope you are up to the challenge. If you don't like being targeted by illegal police action, this your golden opportunity to help yourself and everyone else at the same time. Ironically, it falls to potential street racers to stand up and protect democracy. I call it poetic justice.
Topic
Section 172 the illegal legislation governing street racing
Anything and everything that you do while driving a car could be considered "racing" or "stunt driving" with that set of definitions. :evil: Also the legislation gives absolutely no protection or recourse for innocent motorists. :x That may very well be how this law ends up (vehicle seizure struck down, 7-day suspension stays). Quebec now has that for 40 km/h over the limit (cops issue 7-day suspension at the roadside). If the driver is the lone licensed occupant of the vehicle, it gets towed to the driver's home or a place where it can be held until someone can retrieve it. I still think that for most of the offences defined as "stunt driving" that the suspension and seizure is way too much, I think a normal PON would do just fine. If someone is genuinely racing or driving in an absolutely extreme manner (e.g. 300 km/h on the 400, 231 on the DVP), they should be arrested and spend the night in one of our lovely local jails, like the Don Jail or the Ottawa-Carleton Regional Detention Centre. :twisted:
Reflections wrote:
too many loose definitions
Anything and everything that you do while driving a car could be considered "racing" or "stunt driving" with that set of definitions. Also the legislation gives absolutely no protection or recourse for innocent motorists.
hwybear wrote:
Exactly, then it would be "on-line" with the 90 day suspension (ie charged with offence, loss of licence)
That may very well be how this law ends up (vehicle seizure struck down, 7-day suspension stays). Quebec now has that for 40 km/h over the limit (cops issue 7-day suspension at the roadside). If the driver is the lone licensed occupant of the vehicle, it gets towed to the driver's home or a place where it can be held until someone can retrieve it. I still think that for most of the offences defined as "stunt driving" that the suspension and seizure is way too much, I think a normal PON would do just fine. If someone is genuinely racing or driving in an absolutely extreme manner (e.g. 300 km/h on the 400, 231 on the DVP), they should be arrested and spend the night in one of our lovely local jails, like the Don Jail or the Ottawa-Carleton Regional Detention Centre.
If only that were true, I'd support 172 myself. But it is not true. There is an astounding number of sloppily conceived definitions of what 172 calls "Stunt Driving" hiding under the deliberately misleading "Street Racing" title, any of which leads to instant, brutally expensive on-the-spot penalties without trial or avenues of appeal the moment the officer decides, for whatever reason, to lay a 172 charge. Whether or not there is ever a conviction on the charge is irrelevant, if in fact the case ever even makes it to court. The law also explicitly removes the charged person's right to seek redress, for any reason. Every (sane) driver is against street racing, so that's why the authorities call it the Street Racing law and are careful to spin it as an initiative aimed at stopping that. But steet racing is not the issue: it's what's hiding under the rock that's the problem. I could be persuaded that going 50k over is automatic evidence of Dangerous Driving -- but we already have tried and proven laws against Dangerous Driving. And Careless. And Speeding, etc. 172 is a subversion of the Canadian judicial process. It is bad law.
cruzmisl wrote:
Just stay below 49km/h over the limit and you'll get to work just fine.
If only that were true, I'd support 172 myself. But it is not true. There is an astounding number of sloppily conceived definitions of what 172 calls "Stunt Driving" hiding under the deliberately misleading "Street Racing" title, any of which leads to instant, brutally expensive on-the-spot penalties without trial or avenues of appeal the moment the officer decides, for whatever reason, to lay a 172 charge. Whether or not there is ever a conviction on the charge is irrelevant, if in fact the case ever even makes it to court. The law also explicitly removes the charged person's right to seek redress, for any reason.
Every (sane) driver is against street racing, so that's why the authorities call it the Street Racing law and are careful to spin it as an initiative aimed at stopping that. But steet racing is not the issue: it's what's hiding under the rock that's the problem. I could be persuaded that going 50k over is automatic evidence of Dangerous Driving -- but we already have tried and proven laws against Dangerous Driving. And Careless. And Speeding, etc.
172 is a subversion of the Canadian judicial process. It is bad law.
Even after an investigation mistakes are made, idiotic as they may be! http://www.thestar.com/article/571339 Innocent people have been convicted after lengthy trials and sent to jail for criminal offences, only to be found innocent after spending years in jail. And yet with a conviction rate under 50% for those charged under this farce of a law, yet everyone them have been penalized one way or another, Guilty as Julian would call it! I know one thing for sure, Fantino is grateful for his day in court(s), every dog has it's day!
Innocent people have been convicted after lengthy trials and sent to jail for criminal offences, only to be found innocent after spending years in jail.
And yet with a conviction rate under 50% for those charged under this farce of a law, yet everyone them have been penalized one way or another, Guilty as Julian would call it!
I know one thing for sure, Fantino is grateful for his day in court(s), every dog has it's day!
Oh good grief. That post-incident shenanigans from that crash has turned into a Gong Show. :roll: We are the same province that thought Dr. Charles Smith was the Super-God of Paediatric Forensics, and look how that turned out. That's what happens when too much unquestioned trust and power is placed in someone's hands. Checks and balances are needed; this law doesn't have any. Agreed completely. Good laws strengthen our society, bad laws weaken it.
Oh good grief. That post-incident shenanigans from that crash has turned into a Gong Show.
BelSlySTi wrote:
Innocent people have been convicted after lengthy trials and sent to jail for criminal offences, only to be found innocent after spending years in jail.
We are the same province that thought Dr. Charles Smith was the Super-God of Paediatric Forensics, and look how that turned out. That's what happens when too much unquestioned trust and power is placed in someone's hands. Checks and balances are needed; this law doesn't have any.
Proper1 wrote:
172 is a subversion of the Canadian judicial process. It is bad law.
Agreed completely. Good laws strengthen our society, bad laws weaken it.
Does not prevent them from going to work...use their legs, bicycle, carpool, bus....it's also better for the environment :) The only guy that that drove the same route as me is no longer working here and 86 km one way is too far to walk. I suppose I could take a weeks holidays.......and watch my insurance sky-rocket..........and be out the non-refundable $1000 bucks because of a mistake. And all the while, if I'm innocent, I lose, the government looks like the lost souls that they are and nobody in the faceless justice system gives a rats ass. All this so some goof ball polititian could get re-elected in his riding and is never heard from again.......hope his 5 years gets him a nice pension.
hwybear wrote:
Reflections wrote:
Modify it so that a person does not lose their ability to goto work for a week. .....
Does not prevent them from going to work...use their legs, bicycle, carpool, bus....it's also better for the environment
The only guy that that drove the same route as me is no longer working here and 86 km one way is too far to walk. I suppose I could take a weeks holidays.......and watch my insurance sky-rocket..........and be out the non-refundable $1000 bucks because of a mistake. And all the while, if I'm innocent, I lose, the government looks like the lost souls that they are and nobody in the faceless justice system gives a rats ass. All this so some goof ball polititian could get re-elected in his riding and is never heard from again.......hope his 5 years gets him a nice pension.
http://www.OHTA.ca OR http://www.OntarioTrafficAct.com
This is gonna be offtop... Straight out of the article Let's do some math here. 31 drink/4 = 7.75 per person. Make that 8 drinks per person, in 3 hours. 12 ounces of liquor. Remembering my Smart-Serve training, an adult of about 170 lb would have BAC of about .16, give or take 2 points to adjust for food intake. Twice the legal limit doesn't mean you are too drunk to do a lot of other things. Let's ask some meaningful questions here. Tyler was 20, so noone prevented him from drinking. Was he overserved? Not really. 8 drinks in 3 hours, with lunch/dinner, seems reasonable to anyone who drinks alcohol. Should he had been driving with that? No. Was he the only one coming up to get the drinks for the table? Noone knows. I'd say no. Also, there is no mention of how drunk Tyler himself was. Maybe the other 2 guys drank most? Maybe he drank most? Maybe the 3 guys had 10 drinks while the girl had only one, and she was supposed to be a DD? Seems likely given she was the only one to escape drowning vehicle, so she must have been the most sober. Why are these questions NOT asked in the investigation? Lets ask the father some questions. He answere some here: http://santaclausfund.ca/News/Ontario/article/475196, a Toronto Star website. So, using this logic, if a 50-old-feller drinks, takes his 'vette out for a drive with his grandson, and crashes into a minivan killing 8 people in it, including a pregnant woman (OK, that's too gruesome i agree), himself, and his grandson, would the drinking law have to be changed to 51? I agree with everything he says but the 1-st sentence. And then Tim went out and bought his son a high performance sport sedan. By Audi. Not a Beetle, not a Malibu, not a Camry, not even a Taurus, all good vehicles to get one from A to B. A friggin Audi. :? Some responsibility here? Hello.... People going to a bar to have more than 1 beer? When did THAT become news? I don't drink and drive, so when I drink I usually have well above the legal driving limit. And that had never been a problem with anyone. If someone goes to a bar, and the server tells him he's had enough after one drink, nothing will stop that someone to go home and drink more yet. And when we drink at home, we usually drink more than we do in bars and restaurants. Nothing at home really stops people from driving either. Noone comes to a bar saying "I'm driving tonight". What TM does not realise is that bar owner are not running their bar to control how much your precious son drinks before he drives. They sell alcohol to make a living. If bartenders were only allowed to serve no more than 2 drinks to a person, we'd have 1/10 of the bars we have, and a beer would be $10 in there. Even more reason to drink at home. The Smart Serve recommends stopping serving alcohol to persons who exhibit 3 or more of the following signs of intoxication: + fine motor coordination shot (difficulty picking up change, difficulty removing cards from wallet, etc.) + speaking too loud or too softly + talking fast, then slow, then fast + slurred speech + bloodshot eyes + sweating when no one else is + dopey, not alert (respond slowly to questions) + poor motor control (stumbling, bumping into others) + breathing slower and lighter than others + sleepiness I know for a fact that I would develop "3 or more" of these from 8 drinks over 3 hours. Maybe Tyler and Co. were cut off the bar. Maybe he left angry at the bar for cutting him off? That is not uncommon especially when people are drinking. Maybe being cut off angered him enough to push the DD away and take the control to himself? And then to go Johnny Leadfoot on the pedal? Where is the statement of the only witness? She could tell us a LOT. The only thing we hear is "X charges have been laid against so and so". Charges are not results, and this is not a police state, but frightening people with BS charges is a prime example of one. As bear said in "Don't ditch your Car, OR ELSE..." topic, in his reply to my comment: Here, in this context, I wholeheartedly agree. To Tim M.: stop shifting blame on young people, bartenders, servers, the AGCO, LLA, the OHTA, and everyone else, but again, truth be told, if you're looking for the guilty you need only look into a mirror.
The group was reportedly served 31 drinks over the course of three hours. They left in Mulcahy's Audi and crashed through a guardrail along the Joseph River sometime after 6 p.m. Only Elzinga was able to escape the sinking car.
Let's do some math here. 31 drink/4 = 7.75 per person. Make that 8 drinks per person, in 3 hours. 12 ounces of liquor. Remembering my Smart-Serve training, an adult of about 170 lb would have BAC of about .16, give or take 2 points to adjust for food intake. Twice the legal limit doesn't mean you are too drunk to do a lot of other things.
Let's ask some meaningful questions here. Tyler was 20, so noone prevented him from drinking. Was he overserved? Not really. 8 drinks in 3 hours, with lunch/dinner, seems reasonable to anyone who drinks alcohol. Should he had been driving with that? No. Was he the only one coming up to get the drinks for the table? Noone knows. I'd say no. Also, there is no mention of how drunk Tyler himself was. Maybe the other 2 guys drank most? Maybe he drank most? Maybe the 3 guys had 10 drinks while the girl had only one, and she was supposed to be a DD? Seems likely given she was the only one to escape drowning vehicle, so she must have been the most sober. Why are these questions NOT asked in the investigation?
I'd like Tyler's accident to make a difference. I really feel there needs to be zero tolerance for alcohol up to the age of 21. Once someone takes one drink, it's easy to take two, three, four or 10 because we stop thinking.
So, using this logic, if a 50-old-feller drinks, takes his 'vette out for a drive with his grandson, and crashes into a minivan killing 8 people in it, including a pregnant woman (OK, that's too gruesome i agree), himself, and his grandson, would the drinking law have to be changed to 51?
What do you think parents should do?
Parents need to lobby the government to make changes. We tell our children all the time – as I told Tyler – don't drink and drive and don't speed. I know that I have said this to Tyler over 100 times. Obviously that doesn't work.
I agree with everything he says but the 1-st sentence.
Tyler had a speeding charge in 2006. How did you address that?
As I said, I told Tyler not to speed. I told him, `Your friends that are speeding are irresponsible.' I am not certain if he even mentioned the speeding ticket to me.
Why did you stress that?
Just because his friends talked about speeding so much. I was just shocked at the amount that the boys discuss cars and how fast they are and how much they like racing.
And then Tim went out and bought his son a high performance sport sedan. By Audi. Not a Beetle, not a Malibu, not a Camry, not even a Taurus, all good vehicles to get one from A to B. A friggin Audi. Some responsibility here?
What role does the club play in these types of situations?
I believe that many bars and clubs and restaurants across Canada serve people too much alcohol before they drive.
Hello.... People going to a bar to have more than 1 beer? When did THAT become news? I don't drink and drive, so when I drink I usually have well above the legal driving limit. And that had never been a problem with anyone. If someone goes to a bar, and the server tells him he's had enough after one drink, nothing will stop that someone to go home and drink more yet. And when we drink at home, we usually drink more than we do in bars and restaurants. Nothing at home really stops people from driving either. Noone comes to a bar saying "I'm driving tonight". What TM does not realise is that bar owner are not running their bar to control how much your precious son drinks before he drives. They sell alcohol to make a living. If bartenders were only allowed to serve no more than 2 drinks to a person, we'd have 1/10 of the bars we have, and a beer would be $10 in there. Even more reason to drink at home.
The Smart Serve recommends stopping serving alcohol to persons who exhibit 3 or more of the following signs of intoxication:
+ fine motor coordination shot (difficulty picking
up change, difficulty removing cards from wallet,
etc.)
+ speaking too loud or too softly
+ talking fast, then slow, then fast
+ slurred speech
+ bloodshot eyes
+ sweating when no one else is
+ dopey, not alert (respond slowly to questions)
+ poor motor control (stumbling, bumping into
others)
+ breathing slower and lighter than others
+ sleepiness
I know for a fact that I would develop "3 or more" of these from 8 drinks over 3 hours. Maybe Tyler and Co. were cut off the bar. Maybe he left angry at the bar for cutting him off? That is not uncommon especially when people are drinking. Maybe being cut off angered him enough to push the DD away and take the control to himself? And then to go Johnny Leadfoot on the pedal? Where is the statement of the only witness? She could tell us a LOT. The only thing we hear is "X charges have been laid against so and so". Charges are not results, and this is not a police state, but frightening people with BS charges is a prime example of one.
As bear said in "Don't ditch your Car, OR ELSE..." topic, in his reply to my comment:
hwybear wrote:
People rely way too much on someone else to do something, then to blame them for their own ...
Here, in this context, I wholeheartedly agree. To Tim M.: stop shifting blame on young people, bartenders, servers, the AGCO, LLA, the OHTA, and everyone else, but again, truth be told, if you're looking for the guilty you need only look into a mirror.
Last edited by racer on Sat Jan 17, 2009 3:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"The more laws, the less justice" - Marcus Tullius Cicero
"The hardest thing to explain is the obvious"
Lost souls is the farthest from thr truth..............all you need to do is sit in one session , you get a full pension and what really bothers me, it that any MPP can move,withdrawl, cash in and LIF,LIRA (retirement fund) 100%, and all tax free. Now let Joe Taxpayer try and do that in Ontario at the very most your going to get is 25% and only when your at deaths door, which is heavily taxed!
Reflections wrote:
the government looks like the lost souls that they are and nobody in the faceless justice system gives a rats ass. All this so some goof ball polititian could get re-elected in his riding and is never heard from again.......hope his 5 years gets him a nice pension.
Lost souls is the farthest from thr truth..............all you need to do is sit in one session , you get a full pension and what really bothers me, it that any MPP can move,withdrawl, cash in and LIF,LIRA (retirement fund) 100%, and all tax free.
Now let Joe Taxpayer try and do that in Ontario at the very most your going to get is 25% and only when your at deaths door, which is heavily taxed!
easier...8 x 15 = 120mgs (total drinks) minus 3 x 15 = 45mgs (less 3 hrs of elimination) total is 75mgs of alcohol in 100ml of blood
racer wrote:
This is gonna be offtop...
Let's do some math here. 31 drink/4 = 7.75 per person. Make that 8 drinks per person, in 3 hours. 12 ounces of liquor. Remembering my Smart-Serve training, an adult of about 170 lb would have BAC of about .16, give or take 2 points to adjust for food intake. Twice the legal limit doesn't mean you are too drunk to do a lot of other things. .
easier...8 x 15 = 120mgs (total drinks)
minus 3 x 15 = 45mgs (less 3 hrs of elimination)
total is 75mgs of alcohol in 100ml of blood
Above is merely a suggestion/thought and in no way constitutes legal advice or views of my employer. www.OHTA.ca
"I told Tyler not to speed," and then I bought him a 340 horsepower Audi S4, which, I'm sure, is a great incentive to rigidly obey all traffic laws and drive in a courteous and careful manner. :roll: The actions and words don't match. If his son survived, we all know that Tim Mulcahy would have bought him the best legal defence team that money could buy to get him off the charge. Tim Mulcahy STILL refuses to accept responsibility, at least on an emotional level. He, whether consciously or subconsciously, feels a deep level of guilt for facilitating and enabling this, and does not want that hanging over his head. Why else would he go so crazy about "the government/bars/other people needs to protect my kid because I couldn't do it myself"? Here's another thought: If a cop car had come upon them just after they left the bar, would Tyler be off to the Crowbar Hilton for impaired driving? (Let's assume he was over the legal limit for argument's sake.) What would his father say or do then? Would the bartender and club have been charged for overserving them in that case? Did they ever do a toxicology report and determine just what Tyler's BAC was at the time of death? Tyler was 20, an adult, made poor choices and that's it. When will they start putting the blame at his feet? Oh yeah and isn't it amazing that you can lose your car for 7 days for driving 50 km/h over the speed limit but not for blowing over the limit? And the ADLS for drunk driving can be appealed... not under s. 172, though, there's no appeal there.
racer wrote:
I was just shocked at the amount that the boys discuss cars and how fast they are and how much they like racing.
"I told Tyler not to speed," and then I bought him a 340 horsepower Audi S4, which, I'm sure, is a great incentive to rigidly obey all traffic laws and drive in a courteous and careful manner. The actions and words don't match. If his son survived, we all know that Tim Mulcahy would have bought him the best legal defence team that money could buy to get him off the charge.
Tim Mulcahy STILL refuses to accept responsibility, at least on an emotional level. He, whether consciously or subconsciously, feels a deep level of guilt for facilitating and enabling this, and does not want that hanging over his head. Why else would he go so crazy about "the government/bars/other people needs to protect my kid because I couldn't do it myself"?
Here's another thought: If a cop car had come upon them just after they left the bar, would Tyler be off to the Crowbar Hilton for impaired driving? (Let's assume he was over the legal limit for argument's sake.) What would his father say or do then? Would the bartender and club have been charged for overserving them in that case? Did they ever do a toxicology report and determine just what Tyler's BAC was at the time of death? Tyler was 20, an adult, made poor choices and that's it. When will they start putting the blame at his feet?
Oh yeah and isn't it amazing that you can lose your car for 7 days for driving 50 km/h over the speed limit but not for blowing over the limit? And the ADLS for drunk driving can be appealed... not under s. 172, though, there's no appeal there.
Be careful with quoting, I've never said that:lol:.... The most responsible thing for the bar staff at the restaurant would have been calling the cops to stop the vehicle right after they left... Is that what TM was expecting the restaurant owners to do??? Wouldn't that have had Tyler's license suspended for 90 days (+ 2 years due to his other tickets)? Is that what anyone in his sane mind expects when they go to a bar, for the bartender to call the cops on them the moment they leave the establishment? The truth is, that there is nowhere near enough information right about everything that is relevant to the case. Only names of people who had been charged. I have read the Star's interview of Elzinga, and in that interview she only mentions "having drinks on a terrace". She has never even mentioned that the total was 31 drinks... Not even close to that. I'd love to see the witness report made by OPP.
Radar Identified wrote:
racer wrote:
I was just shocked at the amount that the boys discuss cars and how fast they are and how much they like racing.
Be careful with quoting, I've never said that:lol:....
The most responsible thing for the bar staff at the restaurant would have been calling the cops to stop the vehicle right after they left... Is that what TM was expecting the restaurant owners to do??? Wouldn't that have had Tyler's license suspended for 90 days (+ 2 years due to his other tickets)? Is that what anyone in his sane mind expects when they go to a bar, for the bartender to call the cops on them the moment they leave the establishment?
The truth is, that there is nowhere near enough information right about everything that is relevant to the case. Only names of people who had been charged. I have read the Star's interview of Elzinga, and in that interview she only mentions "having drinks on a terrace". She has never even mentioned that the total was 31 drinks... Not even close to that. I'd love to see the witness report made by OPP.
"The more laws, the less justice" - Marcus Tullius Cicero
"The hardest thing to explain is the obvious"
Remember the OPP only gathered the evidence and took it to the Crown, the Crown then indicated that charges should be laid based on the totality of the evidence brought to him/her.
racer wrote:
I'd love to see the witness report made by OPP.
Remember the OPP only gathered the evidence and took it to the Crown, the Crown then indicated that charges should be laid based on the totality of the evidence brought to him/her.
Above is merely a suggestion/thought and in no way constitutes legal advice or views of my employer. www.OHTA.ca
Sorry 'bout that. :oops: Should've done this: Quoting Tim Mulcahy: "I was just shocked at the amount that the boys discuss cars and how fast they are and how much they like racing." The crash happened when we had s. 172 in effect. It didn't stop it. It won't stop similar incidents from occurring. For that matter, it doesn't even stop people from racking up speeds faster than the Indy 500, like 239 on Highway 26, an 80 km/h zone, or 231 km/h on the Don Valley Parkway, a 90 km/h zone, or the guy from Oakville who admitted going 260 km/h on the 401. Taking someone's car for a week might give the safety advocates a warm and fuzzy feeling but many things that are "justified" in the context of safety have ended up putting numerous countries on a slippery slope. I don't think we need to go down that path.
racer wrote:
Be careful with quoting, I've never said that
Sorry 'bout that.
Should've done this:
Quoting Tim Mulcahy: "I was just shocked at the amount that the boys discuss cars and how fast they are and how much they like racing."
The crash happened when we had s. 172 in effect. It didn't stop it. It won't stop similar incidents from occurring. For that matter, it doesn't even stop people from racking up speeds faster than the Indy 500, like 239 on Highway 26, an 80 km/h zone, or 231 km/h on the Don Valley Parkway, a 90 km/h zone, or the guy from Oakville who admitted going 260 km/h on the 401. Taking someone's car for a week might give the safety advocates a warm and fuzzy feeling but many things that are "justified" in the context of safety have ended up putting numerous countries on a slippery slope. I don't think we need to go down that path.
i'd be interested in finding out how many 172 tickets also had the driver consuming 3-4 pints before driving. Even how many speeding tickets are issued to those consuming "legal" amounts but still a little tipsy....????
i'd be interested in finding out how many 172 tickets also had the driver consuming 3-4 pints before driving. Even how many speeding tickets are issued to those consuming "legal" amounts but still a little tipsy....????
http://www.OHTA.ca OR http://www.OntarioTrafficAct.com
A lot of times, just from anecdotal evidence, I hear of someone caught under 172 where it was a big incident, alcohol was also involved. The two most recent were the guy who was caught going 231 on the DVP and another going 148 on Jane Street in Toronto, both of them were over the legal BAC limit.
A lot of times, just from anecdotal evidence, I hear of someone caught under 172 where it was a big incident, alcohol was also involved. The two most recent were the guy who was caught going 231 on the DVP and another going 148 on Jane Street in Toronto, both of them were over the legal BAC limit.
I searched but could not retrieve a satisfactory answer.
It seems matter-of-fact that all sorts of work equipment, namely backhoes, loaders and other similar mororized vehicles without licence plates, sometimes equipped with a slow moving vehicle sign, often not, some with an amber beacon, some without, are encountered on a highway, travelling under their own power, sometimes on multi-lane roads…
Hello everyone I'm not sure if this is the right place to put it but I need some answers as I'm very scared and don't know what to do. Recently if got a Novice Driver B.A.C Above zero I am 23 years old and I'm pretty due to get my G class license in a couple of weeks. I understand that I was wrong for drinking a beer and half and driving with a G2 Class license.
I have been reading Fight Your Traffic Ticket site and have a couple of comments.
I was issued two tickets at the same time, one for invalid left turn (Hwy 7 in Markham and Swansea). Another one, because the officer did not like my copy of registration documents.
I am planning to challenge it in the court. Actually I already submitted the request.
Hi, I have a court date Oct. 21,08 for parking in the fire route of my friends building. How can i get this $100 fine reduced or eliminated? only argument i really have is that visitor parking was full and i went around a few times. I wasn't there for long either.
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I just got a ticket for going right on red fail to stop(114[18])$180. No pedestrians were in the way. I'm not a unsafe driver, so I'm…
My mom received a ticket under OHTA 159(1). She was turning left at an intersection. The light was green and there were no cars in front of her. She entered the intersection and waited for incoming traffic to clear so that she could complete the turn. As she waited, a fire truck with its sirens on was driving from the street onto which she was turning (perpendicular). He honked at her (presumably…
Basically, I was selling the car and I informed the buyer that the car was in not insured at the time.
He bought dealer plates from his work place and assured me that it was fine. We got pulled over by OPP and they asked for our information.
I explained that it was my car and the test driver was working at a dealership with his plates that has insurance, they told us that the plates don't apply
The other day I was given a ticket for speeding 119 in a 90, on highway 17 near Marathon, ON (Speeding ticket capital of the universe, BTW). The officer claims to have "clocked" me using the vehicle mounted radar at 121 KMH and dropped it (presumably to lower fine and demerits).
I was not going that fast, but there was a larger, and faster moving, vehicle behind me, gaining fast (I was driving a…
Location: 401 exit to Homer Watson Blvd, Kitchener/ Cambridge.
I was going on 401. When I was approaching the location mentioned at the topic, I tried to over take a truck in front of me, and realized a car tailgating me right after I went out to the fast lane. At first I thought it was some other fast drivers so I just thought that I would go back into the middle…
Hey, i recently got a ticket for failing to stop a red light (Section 114(18)).
I was travelling south, the cop was travelling north. He was on the other side of the intersection then me, my light turned yellow and i tried running it but it turned red before i could cross the line. I was going too fast to be able to stomp the break so i had to run it through.
I'm just curious how long will a Driving while suspended affect my insurance rates? Initially when I got my conviction with DWS my rates went from 180 a month to 390, since then I've had no tickets or even been pulled over and my rates have gone down to 240 since then. I believe it will be 3 years in Sept 2017. Will the DWS affect my insurance for 6 years because thats how long it stays on my…
It's winter, and there's been a cold snap. The highway you are traveling on is wet, but not slippery. You take your exit, but the salt trucks haven't been on this ramp, and despite slowing down to below the recommended speed, your car slips on some black ice, and you find the car rotating clockwise. The car rotates 180 degrees, and slides backwards off the ramp…
So about a month ago I received a stunt/racing charge for going 140 in an 80 zone. I decided to go with a paralegal, and was notified by the paralegal that on the summon's it states to go to a criminal court. The paralegal was confused as this should be at a Provincial court. They said that since I do not have any criminal charges, that the officer wrote the wrong address down including…
I got a careless driving ticket and I was involved in quite a serious accident. I was driving at about 60 km/h arriving towards a stop sign. Unfortunately when I tried to stop, my shoes were sliding off from my foot as they did not have any strap and were perhaps oversized and slippery. I could not stop at the sign and hit a van that had the right of way. Both vehicles were badly damaged and…
In some cases, it takes too long for the Crown to bring a charge against a defendant to trial. If your charge has taken too long to come to trial, you can stop the proceedings by "filing an 11B." This is filing paperwork to bring a motion at your trial, where you essentially say, "my rights to a speedy trial have been violated, and I want the case stopped." It is called an 11B because section…
Hi I'm new to this forum but I hope I'm bringing you all good news.
I recently wrote a book short titled ABUSE OF POWER
This book is all about how the Ontario government broke the law to enact the new street racing legislation.
To start with the denial of the right to remain innocent until proven guilty was enacted without due process under the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. How it wasn't done…
I have been caught 3 times driving while suspended for unpaid fines . I have still not paid the fines and did not go to the first 2 court dates. When I was pulled over the second time the police officer said he would put down as it was my first time . But I had to work as I just started a new job. I called in to have the date changed but they said it was to late . So I did not go to court .…
Today I received a hand held device ticket on Gardiner. I was pulled over by the police officer and told i was using my cell phone while driving but i never even touched my cell phone. He told me my hand was not on steering. I am sure i didn't touch the phone. The phone was on the right passenger seat connected to my car. I was using mobile gps which was on dashboard display and never touched…
As the title states, I received a ticket for failing to proceed at a green light. I have gained a lot of knowledge from this site for various things, however even a google search of this ticket doesn't seem to pull up much info. Someone else had made a post about this back in 2009 but my story is quite different.
So I shall explain...
On the night of February 23/2013 I had decided to be the…
Need some advice on reaching a plea deal with the prosecutor and how to go about talking to the crown. I'm not here to be lectured ect. I'm aware I made a mistake, and need advice on fixing it. So kindly keep comments about my impulsive decision to yourself.
Backstory:
I'm 19 with a g2 license. Was going home late at night and decided to go down a road that I knew was smooth with zero traffic so I…
I recently got pulled over and issued a ticket for following too closely and am looking to challenge the charges. However, I will be at school by the trial date. This is significant because I received the ticket in Ottawa (where my family lives), but attend school in Waterloo (almost 6 hours away). I will also be starting co-op this summer and as such likely won't be returning home in order to…
I was charged with careless driving for a one-vehicle accident, and would like to know how to go about pleading not guilty. I was driving on a rural road at night in an 80 kmh zone. I was driving up a hill. At the top of the hill is a 90 degree turn sign (no stop sign, no kmh posted). I hit the brakes too late, and because the road goes downhill and there's a lot of gravel, skidded one or two…
Not sure the right place for this so if it needs to be moved please do so.
I was stopped today for 15 over the speed limit, I gave all the documents to the officer and he said he could not accept a photocopy of my ownership only the original I had a photo copy front and back and I had my plate sticker number with it.
he gave me a ticket for HWY ACT Section 7(5)(a) he said only the original would…
Tonight, I was pulled over for apparently doing 132km in an 80km zone. Although I'd only caught myself doing 120km(yes, still over, I'm aware). After about 30 min of sitting on the side of the road, the officer came over and kindly decided not to take away my license or impound the car on the spot. I did not recieve any fines. He did, however, give me a court date in August. Never mentioning…
I have been a frequent visitor of this site for a while now but I just made an account today to ask a question that I have gotten no real clear cut answer on in the past.
What I'm talking about here is H.I.D. (High Intensity Discharge) Headlight Conversion Kits. For those of you who don't know what they are all about you can just google it and you will receive more than enough…
Also the legislation gives absolutely no protection or recourse for innocent motorists. 
Some responsibility here?
