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Uninsured / unlicensed / unplated - On private property?
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2015 4:25 pm 
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Sorry for the long story, but there's a lot of details.

My wife and I have decided to trade our jetskis for a motorcycle. We've had our fun over the last five years of JetSki ownership however we are ready for something new.

However, stupidly, when I last owned a motorcycle about 20 years ago I never obtained my full M class license, only riding under my M2 for several years before I sold the bike and moved on, letting the license expire. Accordingly, I have no option now except to start as a beginner M1 licensed driver, something I don't necessarily have a problem with however the complication is that the MTO does not do M1 exit road tests beyond mid October. The main issue here is that you must drive under the M1 for a minimum of 60 days before you were eligible for the road test, which won't be available, and then the license expires after 90 days. Vicious circle of pointlessness until the spring, basically.

Long story short trying to get the bike on the road, myself licensed, and everything else in place this late in the season seems totally pointless with only perhaps four or five weeks of riding left realistically...at best. A few weeks at worst. So we'll defer all that until spring. ;)

That said, I would like both me and my wife to have some opportunity to practice with the new bike in preparation for the spring...so I had planned to trailer it to a variety of local large private property parking lots and ride there. One option is the local mall, and option number two is actually a facility that does the motorcycle driver training at...and the required practice patterns are actually permanently painted on the asphalt, so it's ideal...and vacant most weekends now. There's also lots of other big private property parking lots local to us.

My question is primarily based on the reality that the bike will be in our name, but will not be plated or insured, Nor will either of us have any class of M license. I currently hold an AZ, and my wife, G.

As mentioned we will trailer the bike to and from the related parking lots, only riding on the private property.

It seems having done some research that private property is completely and exclusively outside the realm of the highway traffic act, and accordingly we are perfectly legal with this plan, however can anybody confirm? I have no desire to get a bunch of tickets before we even try to insure the bike next year as obviously that's going to have a pretty negative effect on the already significant rates. ;)

Thanks.


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Re: Uninsured / unlicensed / unplated - On private property?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2015 5:50 pm 
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If you are completely on private property, most of the HTA does not apply, some does though (like reporting an accident). If you plan on going to a mall, odds are that mall security will trespass you from the property. No property owner in their right mind would want an unlicenced, uninsured motorist driving on their property.


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Re: Uninsured / unlicensed / unplated - On private property?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2015 6:02 pm 
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We plan to be discrete, not idiots roaring and screeching around and attracting attention to ourselves, trust me...most of the time will likely be spent teaching my wife low speed maneuvering and shifting, etc. If security asks us to leave (in what I would guess is some extremely unlikely scenario where they even notice us to begin with), we'll gladly reload the bike and comply, but that's a different story - I'm solely interested in the legal aspect.


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Re: Uninsured / unlicensed / unplated - On private property?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2015 1:55 pm 
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Location: Ontario
I'd most worried about the possibility of being injured and not having coverage, getting a few tickets pales in comparison to loss of life and limb.


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Re: Uninsured / unlicensed / unplated - On private property?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2015 3:01 pm 
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If something goes wrong with a person learning how to ride a motorcycle, and there is some form of accident you are liable for, either causing damage to mall or another persons property, or if any person is injured, you will really, really wish you had insurance. If you are not covered by insurance, you are leaving yourself wide open for a civil suit.


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Re: Uninsured / unlicensed / unplated - On private property?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2015 3:32 pm 
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<sigh>

Guys, I'm totally aware of all of the potential downsides of what I am proposing. I don't need to be told - I'm simply looking for the legality aspect purely from the perspective of the HTA. That's it.

We all choose to do things on occasion that have he potential for risk, however so far as they aren't against the law it all comes down to personal choice. I rode my Jetskis for the last five years without insurance (as the majority of boat owners do) because insurance is not mandatory on vessels. It was a risk I was willing to take and I never had any issues because of such because we are both conscientious and cautious operators – in my mind this falls under the same classification.

So please...purely legal outlook only, thanks. ;)


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Re: Uninsured / unlicensed / unplated - On private property?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2015 3:53 pm 
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I'd be lying if I said I knew the answer. It's my understanding that there's no requirement for insurance on private property for let's say a motor vehicle.

However, dirt bikes, atv's, etc require mandatory insurance for any property that isn't your own private property.


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Re: Uninsured / unlicensed / unplated - On private property?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2015 4:41 pm 
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Thanks, although I guess that leads to another ball of wax with regards to personal private property versus somebody else's private property, as well as the fact it seems that off-road vehicles fall into a different classification/expectation than on-road vehicles in such a scenario?

Thats odd?


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Re: Uninsured / unlicensed / unplated - On private property?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2015 10:24 pm 
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Remember that some private properties, like malls, have bylaws in effect making it a "highway" as defined in the HTA because of the large amount of "public" traffic going thru them.

So you can be charged for all HTA offences on these types private properties.

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+++ This is not legal advice, only my opinion +++


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Re: Uninsured / unlicensed / unplated - On private property?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2015 10:40 pm 
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jsherk wrote:
Remember that some private properties, like malls, have bylaws in effect making it a "highway" as defined in the HTA because of the large amount of "public" traffic going thru them.

So you can be charged for all HTA offences on these types private properties.


Thank you, duly noted, and I was able to confirm that with some GoogleFu. Accordingly, the local mall will probably be out as a location..but that still leaves a few excellent local prospects that I'll consider still - there's actually two shuttered big-box stores within a 15 minute drive of my house either of which have parking lots that are great for this sort of thing..and I can't possibly imagine either would fall into that category above as they're basically big empty properties with for lease signs on them.

My own workplace would be a great prospect as well (a HUGE expanse of asphalt that's basically empty) if I can talk the boss into having security let me in on a weekend. ;)


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Re: Uninsured / unlicensed / unplated - On private property?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2015 8:24 am 
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Even those shuttered big-box stores could still have a bylaw in force, so be careful.

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+++ This is not legal advice, only my opinion +++


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