Very much unintentionally passed a stopped bus, with sign and flashing lights. Didn't realize I had done it until I was at the end of the bus. I'll save you my sob story, but it was truly accidental. I'm generally very cautious and have a perfect driving record. Never been stopped. While I realize if a cop had seen me that I would have gotten a ticket, there were none in sight. Though I may very well deserve the ticket, I'm not sure what will happen since there wasn't an officer present. If the driver of the bus took down my plate, will I receive a ticket in the mail or will an officer visit my home? The vehicle is in my husband's name. Despite how awful I feel for what I've done, I'm scared about receiving any demerit points. My husband works away and I can't jeopardize my ability to drive as we a child and are expecting. If I do receive a ticket, is a bus driver's report enough word against mine? Also, can a bus driver record my plate at a later time? Not sure if I'm paranoid, but I left the pharmacy today and swear a driver was writing down my plate when stopped behind me at a light. I'm in a small town.
Very much unintentionally passed a stopped bus, with sign and flashing lights. Didn't realize I had done it until I was at the end of the bus. I'll save you my sob story, but it was truly accidental. I'm generally very cautious and have a perfect driving record. Never been stopped.
While I realize if a cop had seen me that I would have gotten a ticket, there were none in sight. Though I may very well deserve the ticket, I'm not sure what will happen since there wasn't an officer present.
If the driver of the bus took down my plate, will I receive a ticket in the mail or will an officer visit my home? The vehicle is in my husband's name. Despite how awful I feel for what I've done, I'm scared about receiving any demerit points. My husband works away and I can't jeopardize my ability to drive as we a child and are expecting.
If I do receive a ticket, is a bus driver's report enough word against mine?
Also, can a bus driver record my plate at a later time? Not sure if I'm paranoid, but I left the pharmacy today and swear a driver was writing down my plate when stopped behind me at a light. I'm in a small town.
If the bus driver did write down your plate number then a ticket might be issued in your husband's name as the owner of the car. The good news is that tickets issued to the owner of a car don't carry any demerit points and don't impact insurance, the fine can be up to $2000 though. If your husband decided to take the matter to court the bus driver would have to come and testify as to what they saw. If the police do come to your door, don't admit to driving the car on that day. Most likely they won't bother asking you questions about it, but on the off chance they do you can exercise your right to remain silent.
If the bus driver did write down your plate number then a ticket might be issued in your husband's name as the owner of the car. The good news is that tickets issued to the owner of a car don't carry any demerit points and don't impact insurance, the fine can be up to $2000 though. If your husband decided to take the matter to court the bus driver would have to come and testify as to what they saw. If the police do come to your door, don't admit to driving the car on that day. Most likely they won't bother asking you questions about it, but on the off chance they do you can exercise your right to remain silent.
You have the right to NOT answer any questions the police ask... don't admit who was driving... just say no comment. In fact, if the police come to door you can ask them to leave your property (unless they have a search warrant).
You have the right to NOT answer any questions the police ask... don't admit who was driving... just say no comment. In fact, if the police come to door you can ask them to leave your property (unless they have a search warrant).
In this case, if my husband does receive the ticket, is there any point in fighting it or are we better off just paying it? He was in Toronto for school when it happened.
In this case, if my husband does receive the ticket, is there any point in fighting it or are we better off just paying it? He was in Toronto for school when it happened.
If it was me, I would fight it. I would plead Not Guilty and request a trial with the officer present. Once I got my notice of trial, I would request disclosure (officer notes and witness statements). Then even assuming the notes and statement are good, I would still go to trial as both the officer AND the witness (bus driver) must show up to court to testify, otherwise they must drop the charge. Although officers will almost always show up, witnesses are much less reliable so there is 50/50 they witness won't show. Worst case is everybody shows up and you go to trial and try to question the bus driver about what they saw and if that does not work then you will be convicted and still have to pay the same amount as in the first place.
If it was me, I would fight it.
I would plead Not Guilty and request a trial with the officer present. Once I got my notice of trial, I would request disclosure (officer notes and witness statements).
Then even assuming the notes and statement are good, I would still go to trial as both the officer AND the witness (bus driver) must show up to court to testify, otherwise they must drop the charge.
Although officers will almost always show up, witnesses are much less reliable so there is 50/50 they witness won't show. Worst case is everybody shows up and you go to trial and try to question the bus driver about what they saw and if that does not work then you will be convicted and still have to pay the same amount as in the first place.
I would like to counter what jsherk in part..."if the police come to door you can ask them to leave your property (unless they have a search warrant)". Perhaps the nice police officer was there to follow up on a complaint, was going to issue a warning, education over enforcement perhaps, but since you played the get off my property card he will do that, then come back with a ticket for the registered owner...now you will be into the whole court process costing both you, and the prosecution time and money...just be nice, hear what the officer has to say, don't answer questions if you don't want to...being nice goes a lot further than being snarly...and I am curious jsherk, why would they show up with a search warrant? what would they be searching for?
I would like to counter what jsherk in part..."if the police come to door you can ask them to leave your property (unless they have a search warrant)". Perhaps the nice police officer was there to follow up on a complaint, was going to issue a warning, education over enforcement perhaps, but since you played the get off my property card he will do that, then come back with a ticket for the registered owner...now you will be into the whole court process costing both you, and the prosecution time and money...just be nice, hear what the officer has to say, don't answer questions if you don't want to...being nice goes a lot further than being snarly...and I am curious jsherk, why would they show up with a search warrant? what would they be searching for?
I am a strong believer in my RIGHTS ... and one of those is that I don't have to let police on my property without a warrant. If they have a warrant to search my property then I can't tell them to leave, which was really the point I was making. I don't know why they would have a warrant, which is why I would ask them if they have one. Then I would POLITELY tell them I do not have to answer any questions and would like them to PLEASE leave and have a nice day. You can not answer their questions AND be nice about it at the same time.
I am a strong believer in my RIGHTS ... and one of those is that I don't have to let police on my property without a warrant. If they have a warrant to search my property then I can't tell them to leave, which was really the point I was making. I don't know why they would have a warrant, which is why I would ask them if they have one. Then I would POLITELY tell them I do not have to answer any questions and would like them to PLEASE leave and have a nice day.
You can not answer their questions AND be nice about it at the same time.
And you then give them no option but to lay a charge when their intention might have been to give a warning. It's like going all in at poker, you take all other plays off the table.
And you then give them no option but to lay a charge when their intention might have been to give a warning. It's like going all in at poker, you take all other plays off the table.
Former Ontario Police Officer. Advice will become less relevant as the time goes by !
If police are asking questions then the probability is that they don't have what they need to lay a charge yet, so it is definitely an all in situation.
If police are asking questions then the probability is that they don't have what they need to lay a charge yet, so it is definitely an all in situation.
On what evidence or experience do you base 'Many times...". Occasionally would be a more accurate word. My scenario is far, far more prevalent based on my thousands of interactions and those of my colleagues.
jsherk wrote:
Many times the evidence is not there, and a testimony will self incriminate you.
On what evidence or experience do you base 'Many times...". Occasionally would be a more accurate word. My scenario is far, far more prevalent based on my thousands of interactions and those of my colleagues.
Former Ontario Police Officer. Advice will become less relevant as the time goes by !
On what evidence or experience do you base 'Many times...". Occasionally would be a more accurate word. My scenario is far, far more prevalent based on my thousands of interactions and those of my colleagues. I helped someone fight a fail to report ticket last year. The only reason the charge was laid was because of the accused statement to the police and said statement was in fact the only evidence they had. Maybe it depends on the officer (and whether he has filled his quota that month), but personally I would never self incriminate to a police officer and hope I show enough regret for him not to charge me. I also disagree with the sentiment that refusing to answer questions forces the officer to lay a charge - an officer is never forced to charge someone. If that's the case then why do we even have the right to remain silent in the first place?
argyll wrote:
jsherk wrote:
Many times the evidence is not there, and a testimony will self incriminate you.
On what evidence or experience do you base 'Many times...". Occasionally would be a more accurate word. My scenario is far, far more prevalent based on my thousands of interactions and those of my colleagues.
I helped someone fight a fail to report ticket last year. The only reason the charge was laid was because of the accused statement to the police and said statement was in fact the only evidence they had. Maybe it depends on the officer (and whether he has filled his quota that month), but personally I would never self incriminate to a police officer and hope I show enough regret for him not to charge me.
I also disagree with the sentiment that refusing to answer questions forces the officer to lay a charge - an officer is never forced to charge someone. If that's the case then why do we even have the right to remain silent in the first place?
Am I missing something...who said "forces" the officer to lay a charge? EphOph, what was the outcome of that trial where you helped a person fight their ticket?
Am I missing something...who said "forces" the officer to lay a charge?
EphOph, what was the outcome of that trial where you helped a person fight their ticket?
On what evidence or experience do you base 'Many times...". Occasionally would be a more accurate word. My scenario is far, far more prevalent based on my thousands of interactions and those of my colleagues. I helped someone fight a fail to report ticket last year. The only reason the charge was laid was because of the accused statement to the police and said statement was in fact the only evidence they had. Maybe it depends on the officer (and whether he has filled his quota that month), but personally I would never self incriminate to a police officer and hope I show enough regret for him not to charge me. I also disagree with the sentiment that refusing to answer questions forces the officer to lay a charge - an officer is never forced to charge someone. If that's the case then why do we even have the right to remain silent in the first place? I'm not telling anyone to talk to a police officer. All I'm saying is you have a choice: pull the "I don't need to speak to you" and if the evidence isn't there then you will get on your way with no charge, but if the evidence is there then you will receive a ticket. If you accept you have done something wrong then you will either get a ticket that is undefendable (because you have admitted it) or a warning. I advise my friends to do the latter and I have done the same (I didn't show my badge when I was pulled over). To all readers, it's your choice whether you adopt jsherk's strategy or mine.
EphOph wrote:
argyll wrote:
jsherk wrote:
Many times the evidence is not there, and a testimony will self incriminate you.
On what evidence or experience do you base 'Many times...". Occasionally would be a more accurate word. My scenario is far, far more prevalent based on my thousands of interactions and those of my colleagues.
I helped someone fight a fail to report ticket last year. The only reason the charge was laid was because of the accused statement to the police and said statement was in fact the only evidence they had. Maybe it depends on the officer (and whether he has filled his quota that month), but personally I would never self incriminate to a police officer and hope I show enough regret for him not to charge me.
I also disagree with the sentiment that refusing to answer questions forces the officer to lay a charge - an officer is never forced to charge someone. If that's the case then why do we even have the right to remain silent in the first place?
I'm not telling anyone to talk to a police officer. All I'm saying is you have a choice: pull the "I don't need to speak to you" and if the evidence isn't there then you will get on your way with no charge, but if the evidence is there then you will receive a ticket. If you accept you have done something wrong then you will either get a ticket that is undefendable (because you have admitted it) or a warning.
I advise my friends to do the latter and I have done the same (I didn't show my badge when I was pulled over).
To all readers, it's your choice whether you adopt jsherk's strategy or mine.
Former Ontario Police Officer. Advice will become less relevant as the time goes by !
screeech, you can view the thread here: failing-to-report-a-collision-to-a-poli ... t7717.html. End result was a plea deal to a municipal bylaw. argyll, you do have a point and although I personally would never admit to anything to a police officer, I have heard from people I know who've gotten warnings by being apologetic. But wouldn't the seriousness of the charge have to be taken into account also? I've seen this charge dealt with in court before. JPs seem to take it more seriously than other types of tickets, presumably because children can be endangered. I would assume the attitude is also held by police officers, making it very unlikely that a warning would be issued for this particular offense. In the context of this thread, the OP has two options if an officer appears at her door: 1) Say nothing. She will be charged as OWNER and the prosecutor will have to summon the witness who took the plate number. Worst case, pay the fine but no insurance implications. 2) Admit to passing the school bus. She will be charged as DRIVER and only the officer will need to be at the trial. Worst case, pay the fine AND insurance increase.
argyll, you do have a point and although I personally would never admit to anything to a police officer, I have heard from people I know who've gotten warnings by being apologetic. But wouldn't the seriousness of the charge have to be taken into account also? I've seen this charge dealt with in court before. JPs seem to take it more seriously than other types of tickets, presumably because children can be endangered. I would assume the attitude is also held by police officers, making it very unlikely that a warning would be issued for this particular offense.
In the context of this thread, the OP has two options if an officer appears at her door:
1) Say nothing. She will be charged as OWNER and the prosecutor will have to summon the witness who took the plate number. Worst case, pay the fine but no insurance implications.
2) Admit to passing the school bus. She will be charged as DRIVER and only the officer will need to be at the trial. Worst case, pay the fine AND insurance increase.
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2- I have notes from two different officers.
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2. Should I go with option 3 - request a trial and force the fatal error by not showing up at court?
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