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Ontario Highway Traffic Act

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Consequential Curiosity...
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 9:49 pm 
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Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2013 1:53 am
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So my boyfriend and I recently started dating. I have a vehicle that was insured. Insurance cost too much and I found it was just as easy to walk to work due to how close it was. But I didn't want to get rid of my car just yet, plus I'm still making payments on it as well. When we moved into our appartment together, I had it towed to my parking spot out back.
Due to a lack of communication, my boyfriend thought I just chose to not drive my car and that I preferred to walk everywhere. So one night, while I was sleeping, he decided to drive it around the corner less then 1km. He got pulled over. He has his G1 and shouldn't have been driving at night or alone. So I realize he is at fault there. Anyways, turns out his lisence is actually expired, he couldn't find my expired insurance card or my owners permit. He got charged with 6 tickets, (None are fines they are just summons to defendant to appear in court): Fail to notify change of address, fail to surrender permit for motor vehicle, fail to surrender insurance card, driver motor vehicle no validation on plate, driver motor vehicle-no licence, novice driver contravene a condition or restriction prescribed by regulation.
Im wondering if I present my insurance card saying that I did have insurance on the vehicle at a point, plus my owners permit can some of those tickets be dropped? This was all due to a lack of communication and perhaps he can just plead guilty to driving without a lisence and get some kind of a plea bargain deal or a lesser charge? He is on financial assistance and we have no way to pay a hefty fine. Also, will he need some kind of representation?
The cops kept threatening that he was going to jail but didnt take him in the night he got pulled over, they just made him walk home and I had my car towed back the next day from the nearest parking lot. What is the likelyhood that he will actually have to spend time in jail as he wasnt drunk, didn't get in an accident, has a clean record, and this is his first offence?
I know this all comes down to his own fault but some helpful advice would be greatly appreciated.


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Re: Consequential Curiosity...
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 12:12 am 
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Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2012 6:31 pm
Posts: 65
Wow... There are SO many problems with this story. Not the least of which is asking us to believe that you and your beginners licenced cohabitating boyfriend NEVER discussed why he couldn't drive your car, or why you had it towed to your shared apartment.

I don't think any of your explanations or expired documentation will contribute anything to the proceedings. He took a car he wasn't licenced to drive and failed to ensure it was properly licenced and insured (due dilligence). It wasn't insured or licenced when he was driving it, so showing proof it "used" to be licenced and insured doesn't address those issues.

The summons vs. set fine should be viewed with an eye towards the seriousness of the situation. This is not a $65 ticket issue, rather an appearance before a JP is required. I saw no criminal charges listed, so jail time should not be an issue, but it may be an expensive day in court for your boyfriend.


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Re: Consequential Curiosity...
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 12:44 am 
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Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2011 9:49 pm
Posts: 2110
Location: Ontario
mjsb13 wrote:
Im wondering if I present my insurance card saying that I did have insurance on the vehicle at a point, plus my owners permit can some of those tickets be dropped? This was all due to a lack of communication and perhaps he can just plead guilty to driving without a lisence and get some kind of a plea bargain deal or a lesser charge?


Quite likely he will be offered some type of plea deal regardless if you present the documents to the Prosecutor or not. Regardless, having documents after the fact doesn’t legally nullify the fact that your boyfriend failed to present them at the time he was actually stopped. Even more problematic is that you’re suggesting presenting an expired proof of insurance as a defence. An expired slip means he was uninsured at the time he was driving. If the police realise that he was uninsured, you as the registered owner can be charged with allowing him to operate your motor vehicle without insurance, which carries a minimum $5,000 fine. If the police decide to proceed with that charge you're going to be in bigger trouble then your boyfriend.


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Re: Consequential Curiosity...
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 2:38 am 
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first off I think it would be a very bad idea to tell the crown that at the time your boyfriend got pulled over the car was uninsured. I am pretty positive you and your bf dodged some bullets with the tickets he got because the owner of the vehicle and the driver usually always gets tickets for driving with no insurance and like one of the posts before me said that carries a minimum fine of $5000 so that wouldve been a $5000 fine for both of you ($10,000) which usually would be reduced to around $2500 or $3500 for a first offence depending on what court your going to. As for the cop threatening your boyfriend with jail you don't go to jail for those types of tickets so he was almost definately just trying to scare him away from parking the car and than getting back in it and than start driving it again. As I understand you can go to jail for driving with a suspended license but not for no license I know that sounds weird but thats the way it is. for the ticket for no permit (ownership) he can just bring the ownership to court and they should drop that for the failure to change address he should just go to the ministry pay for a new license since his is expired and give them his new address show that at court and they should drop that ticket. as for the other tickets its probably best to just plead to a lesser amount you might be able to show them the expired insurance card and getting that ticket dropped too but it might be risky if they look into that and found out that insurance policy was cancelled at the time I don't know if they would do that I'm pretty sure they would if you admit the insurance was cancelled or the expiry date ended before he got pulled over but I honestly dont know how that works, I'm not a lawyer so I'm just giving you advice based on my experiences with traffic court so its probably best you talk to a traffic lawyer to get professional advice, they give free consultations so they could answer better than me. the novice driver contravene a condition ticket I have no idea what the fine would be for that but I'm pretty sure the no license is going to be the most expensive ticket out of all of them If I remember right its a minimum $1000 ticket but they usually reduce it to $350 Ive had that ticket before. To sum things up both of you dodged some bullets and should celebrate. :lol:


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Re: Consequential Curiosity...
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 6:11 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2011 9:49 pm
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Location: Ontario
The driver can't be charged for operating a motor vehicle without insurance unless they're also the owner of the vehicle. In the OP's case, only she could be charged, not her boyfriend.


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Re: Consequential Curiosity...
PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 3:10 am 
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Joined: Tue Feb 26, 2013 1:52 am
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stanton your post is untrue the driver and the owner both can be charged for a motor vehicle with no insurance. I know from experience a few years ago I was driving my friends car with no insurance and my friend was in another car (a rental with insurance ) and we got stopped by a ride program and they gave me and my friend a ticket for no insurance. I've also been in a court and seen a guy getting pissed because him and his father got a no insurance ticket when he was driving the car. I ended up getting a traffic lawyer that got my no insurance ticket dismissed I don't know how he did it since I wasn't there at court so I don't know if the officer didn't show up or he if he got it dismissed another way , as for my friend he plead to a reduced fine of $3,500 if I remember correctly.


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Re: Consequential Curiosity...
PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 4:49 am 
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Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2011 8:42 am
Posts: 138
jc12 wrote:
stanton your post is untrue the driver and the owner both can be charged for a motor vehicle with no insurance. I know from experience a few years ago I was driving my friends car with no insurance and my friend was in another car (a rental with insurance ) and we got stopped by a ride program and they gave me and my friend a ticket for no insurance. I've also been in a court and seen a guy getting pissed because him and his father got a no insurance ticket when he was driving the car. I ended up getting a traffic lawyer that got my no insurance ticket dismissed I don't know how he did it since I wasn't there at court so I don't know if the officer didn't show up or he if he got it dismissed another way , as for my friend he plead to a reduced fine of $3,500 if I remember correctly.


Actually Stanton is correct. The reason you likely got off your charge is because Stanton is correct. Well, I suppose Stantion is incorrect in that the driver CAN be charged for no insurance... if they are the RO, and perhaps, see below... (but no, normally, Stanton is right)

I`ve heard a JP mention `let`s make some new law!` in regards to charging the drivers of motor vehicles who are benefitting from using the vehicle regularly while the R.O. doesn`t maintain insurance on it and never will (where the driver and RO are different people).

_________________
No, I am not the chief of Toronto Police.
No, I do not work for Toronto Police...
... it is just a name folks :)


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Re: Consequential Curiosity...
PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 12:20 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2011 9:49 pm
Posts: 2110
Location: Ontario
jc12 wrote:
stanton your post is untrue the driver and the owner both can be charged for a motor vehicle with no insurance. I know from experience a few years ago I was driving my friends car with no insurance and my friend was in another car (a rental with insurance ) and we got stopped by a ride program and they gave me and my friend a ticket for no insurance. I've also been in a court and seen a guy getting pissed because him and his father got a no insurance ticket when he was driving the car. I ended up getting a traffic lawyer that got my no insurance ticket dismissed I don't know how he did it since I wasn't there at court so I don't know if the officer didn't show up or he if he got it dismissed another way , as for my friend he plead to a reduced fine of $3,500 if I remember correctly.


I’m thinking you might be getting mixed up with different insurance related offences.

Offences relating to motor vehicle insurance are covered under the Compulsory Automobile Insurance Act, here: http://www.canlii.org/en/on/laws/stat/r ... c-c25.html

The requirement to have a motor vehicles insured is covered under section 2 of the act, which states the following:
Quote:
2. (1) Subject to the regulations, no owner or lessee of a motor vehicle shall,
(a) operate the motor vehicle; or
(b) cause or permit the motor vehicle to be operated,
on a highway unless the motor vehicle is insured under a contract of automobile insurance.

As you can see, the act specifies the owner (or lessee) of a motor vehicle. It does not mention the driver (or operator). If you’re charged with this offence, you wouldn’t receive a ticket but rather a summons to Court.

The driver is only responsible for providing proof of insurance if they’re stopped or involved in an accident. This is covered under section 3 of the act, which states the following:
Quote:
3. (1) An operator of a motor vehicle on a highway shall have in the motor vehicle at all times,
(a) an insurance card for the motor vehicle; or
(b) an insurance card evidencing that the operator is insured under a contract of automobile insurance,
and the operator shall surrender the insurance card for reasonable inspection upon the demand of a police officer.

This is a much less serious offence however. The driver would only be issued a ticket with a $65 fine.

If you actually were charged under section 2 while operating another persons’ vehicle, the Crown wouldn’t have been able to proceed with the charge. They would have to show you were the owner of the vehicle to actually convict you. If you were charged in error, I'm guessing it's because the officer was mistaken on the actual law.


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