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Ontario Highway Traffic Act

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110 in a 80km while passing?
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 11:00 am 
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I was passing a vehicle that was going slow for me and there was an oncoming vehicle coming at me. I speed up to get around the person I was passing and the oncoming vehicle turns out to be a cop who turns around and tickets me for going 110km in a 80km zone. How does it work with passing a vehicle? Once I passed the vehicle I went back down to my original speed of just under 100. The officer stated that I was doing 130km in a very disrespectful tone so I explained that I didnt take my eyes off the road to see my speed as there was a vehicle coming at me and one beside me that I was passing as that would not be safe. He said he reduced my ticket to 110km in an 80km but the ticket does not have the "r" code on it or anything. Am I not allowed to exeed the speed limit when passing? what should I do?


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 11:47 am 
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There is no speed limit exemption for passing. If the pass cannot be made in safety, you should slow down and go back behind the other car.

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what to do.
PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 12:29 pm 
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So should I just pay the ticket or can I get it reduced? I lose points for this as well can I save them some how?


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 3:42 pm 
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Squishy wrote:
If the pass cannot be made in safety, you should slow down and go back behind the other car.


That's a knee-slapper! LMAO (wipes tear from eye). Yep, your gonna make a perfect cop ;)

As absolutely ridiculous as it may sound, Squishy is right. There is no allowance for passing. Personally, I would take a speeding ticket and pass in safety ANY DAY over slowing down and trying to merge back in line (much more dangerous as the guy behind you probably filled your spot right quick). I have pulled out to pass a transport truck only to find he was tailgating a surprise car in front of him. You want to see SPEEDING!?

Did the cop actually see you passing? ... and STILL gave you a ticket?? Wow!

I would be so offended by this charge I would do everything in my power to drag the thing out as long as possible. I would file a not-guilty, submit an application for Disclosure, and seek as many continuances as the court will allow. When it eventually came to trial, I would have a list of technical questions a mile long for that cop.

Or maybe I'd calm down after a day or two and just accept a plea bargain from the crown to Disobey Sign (if you have a clean record).


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 4:19 pm 
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The cop was the oncoming traffic. So yes he seen me pass. I have aclean record so how do I proceed?


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 5:55 pm 
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You basically have two options: plead or fight. Like Bookm suggests, you can try going to a first attendance meeting and negotiating a lower charge. You should be able to get this one down to 15km/h or less and avoid demerit points.

If that fails, then mount your defence. Request disclosure and prepare for battle.

One warning though. Do not state what you have posted here to the prosecutor at first attendance or at trial in front of the justice. It will get you convicted quick!

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 6:17 pm 
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The charge is bull and there are too many overzealous cops that will nail you for it. Depending on my time/financial resources, I'd either fight it myself or hire a paralegal. While a single conviction on an otherwise clean record won't affect your rates with most insurers, if you get nailed with anything over the next 3 years (and that includes 1km/h over the limit), your rates will go up 15% or so.
By fighting the ticket all the way (reductions don't matter unless your job depends on having 0 demerits) you also clog up the system and make speed limit enforcement less profitable for the system.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 8:29 pm 
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Bookm wrote:
That's a knee-slapper! LMAO (wipes tear from eye). Yep, your gonna make a perfect cop ;)


Hey, wanna be my reference? I'll be a shoe-in with endorsement from a celebrity. ;)

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 9:29 pm 
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That really blows to get charged with that.

here is a tip although your still breaking the law.

Lets say next time there is a slow truck in the middle or you want to get away from someone and need to exceed the limit to pass do this.

Go into the left lane and immediately put your right turn signal on. That way even if an officer sees you your making it very obvious your just trying to pass something.

Although i mean depending on where you are when you see an officer you should just slow down and not try anything border line. Even if its right it isnt worth the stop, hassle, and the ticket. He must have been pretty close to see it so check your rear view mirror more next time.

This really blows an officer would do this. Many times i have been in the middle lane and they are going under the speed limit or you may have an aggressive truck behind you and wish to get away.

The problem is then you get in the left lane which is flowing around 130.

So what do you do?

The second you go into the left lane people will be flashing their high beams tailgating you.

What works best for me is enter the left lane without cutting anyone else off. Then AS SOON as you get in the left lane put on your right blinkers. This is a good way to avoid a ticket.

It will also help curb some road rage because the drivers in the left lane you are now infront of will see your right blinker and will know your not trying to piss them off, hog the left lane, or trying to slow them down.

I find this works really well to not piss off others and at the same time you might avoid a ticket if an officer was watching, as your turn signal would be an indication of your desire to only exceed the limit to pass.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 9:31 pm 
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Squishy great idea, some of that beef Jerky and the approval from Bookm and your on your way!


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 9:47 pm 
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Bookm wrote:
Did the cop actually see you passing? ... and STILL gave you a ticket?? Wow!


Actually, that is super evidence for notes. Obtain the slower vehicle speed and the passing vehicle's speed, confirms observations a lot easier than a solo vehicle as now have a physical comparison in the same plain (directly side by side).

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 9:10 am 
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Do you really think the oncoming vehicle (the officer) was able to get the speed of the passed vehicle AND the passing vehicle throughout the entirety of this scenario... with moving radar?? Sure it's possible, but unlikely. I'd love to put this cop on the stand:

ME: Officer, prior to me overtaking the vehicle, what was it's precise speed?
COP: Not sure. I believe right on the speed limit.
ME: Was this determined by visual estimate?
COP: No, Radar.
ME: What was your visual estimate?
COP: I didn't estimate. Was too far away.
ME: Radar does not necessarily record the closest target, correct?
COP: Ya, I 'spose.
ME: Then you can't say with a legal degree of certainty that the radar reading was for the car I passed, correct?
COP: ......................................... Naw.
ME: When I passed, you're radar device recorded the speed of my car, correct?
COP: Yes.
ME: What was the speed of the car I was passing at THAT time.
COP: Don't know, radar only monitors one car at a time and YOU were clearly the faster car.
ME: Can you say for certain that the car I was passing did NOT speed up at all while being overtaken?
COP: No.
ME: Is it not quite possible that the overtaken car breached section 148 (7) of the HTA and did not assist me in re-entering the right lane upon your approach in the opposite direction?
COP: It's possible.
ME: In fact, it's quite possible the overtaken vehicle actually accelerated, hindering my re-entry, correct?
COP (now sobbing, lol): It's possible.

That's all.

Closing Argument:
Speeding is usually considered an absolute liability offence which means it would only be incumbent on the crown to prove the act of speeding took place. But speeding CAN be considered a strict liability offence when it is done for safety reasons. When an overtaken vehicle does not assist the passing vehicle when faced with an approaching vehicle, it would be considered due diligence to accelerate and re-enter the right lane in a safe manner. Since the crown has presented no evidence that the defendant was not in any peril, I ask that the charge be dismissed.

... Or something like that ;)


148. (1)
(7)
Where one vehicle is met or overtaken by another, if by reason of the weight of the load on either of the vehicles so meeting or on the vehicle so overtaken the driver finds it impracticable to turn out, he or she shall immediately stop, and, if necessary for the safety of the other vehicle and if required so to do, he or she shall assist the person in charge thereof to pass without damage. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 148 (7).


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 9:22 am 
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Hold on, s. 148 (7) is only for vehicles unable to turn out. I don't think it would apply in this case unless the vehicle left you less than one half of the roadway free. And if it did apply, then that means if you feel the vehicle overtaking you cannot do it in safety, you must "immediately stop" - not even an option to slow down.

I think you're looking for your beloved s. 172 ;)

8. Driving a motor vehicle without due care and attention, without reasonable consideration for other persons using the highway or in a manner that may endanger any person by,

i. driving a motor vehicle in a manner that indicates an intention to prevent another vehicle from passing,


Otherwise, nice defence. I especially enjoyed where you made him cry. :lol:

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 9:27 am 
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Ya, that'll work too. ;)


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 11:49 am 
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Bookm wrote:
ME: Officer, prior to me overtaking the vehicle, what was it's precise speed?
COP: Not sure. I believe right on the speed limit.
ME: Was this determined by visual estimate?
COP: No, Radar.
ME: What was your visual estimate?
COP: I didn't estimate. Was too far away.
ME: Radar does not necessarily record the closest target, correct?
COP: Ya, I 'spose.
ME: Then you can't say with a legal degree of certainty that the radar reading was for the car I passed, correct?
COP: ......................................... Naw.
ME: When I passed, you're radar device recorded the speed of my car, correct?
COP: Yes.
ME: What was the speed of the car I was passing at THAT time.
COP: Don't know, radar only monitors one car at a time and YOU were clearly the faster car.
ME: Can you say for certain that the car I was passing did NOT speed up at all while being overtaken?
COP: No.
ME: Is it not quite possible that the overtaken car breached section 148 (7) of the HTA and did not assist me in re-entering the right lane upon your approach in the opposite direction?
COP: It's possible.
ME: In fact, it's quite possible the overtaken vehicle actually accelerated, hindering my re-entry, correct?
COP (now sobbing, lol): It's possible.


I love people that have absolutely NO clue on radar and how it works....thanks for that clarification!

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Above is merely a suggestion/thought and in no way constitutes legal advice or views of my employer. www.OHTA.ca


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