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90 in an 80, but given 110 in an 80.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 7:21 am 
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Hello folks,

Ok, need some advice here. My daughter received a speeding ticket this past weekend. Apparently she was driving 100 in an 80 limit on a divided hwy. An officer traveling the opposite direction spotted her and decided to turn around and follow her slowing down to 90. For a length of time he followed her then pulled her over. This officer had other intentions. According to my daughter, this officer tried to pick her up. When she refused his advances, he slap her with 110 in an 80. She had asked to produce the radar device and he told her that he didn’t have one. I’ve told her to fight the ticket and get in touch with her cousins, three of which are also police officers and are close to her. Maybe she can get some advice from them. She is a college student living 600 km from home on residence, so at this point I can’t really help. As mentioned, the officer would not let her see the radar device, if he had one. Could she still be able to fight it even if the officer couldn’t produce the device? I take it that he will say that he followed her and recorded the speed by the speed he was going when following her. I've had this happen to me before but the officer just let me go with a warning. Is this the only way male officers can meet women?


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 9:59 am 
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You really need to file an official complaint. There may be other instances of this behavior and multiple complaints from unrelated sources would go a long way to seeing this man removed from the force. I have two daughters approaching there late teens and will never tolerate ANY inappropriate behavior directed at them.

Also, I would strongly encourage your daughter to defend herself at trial. Even if she lost, I'm sure she would feel good about making a stand against this officers lack of professionalism. If she could muster the courage to look the officer in the eye and ask him direct questions about his suggestive demeanor, he just might break down and admit he could be wrong about the speed (in an attempt to get off the stand quickly).

She can tell her whole story in her closing statement. Speeding tickets are usually quite difficult to win, but it's worth a try.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 10:50 am 
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Location: In YOUR rearview mirror!
Police do not have to show the radar/lidar to the person that is stopped. This is for a couple reasons.

With moving radar the unit is sitting in front of the police officer in front of the steering wheel (square box). To one side of this box will be a round shape (the antenna). This could be seen while sitting in the drivers seat of the offending vehicle. However, having said that, nothing prevents the officer from just "pacing" with the vehicle and radar would not be in the vehicle.

In regards to the last comment, that is uncalled for towards the rest of us in the profession. Over the years I have had many uncalled for comments towards me at roadside (reverse to what you mention)...trying to "flirt" etc their way out of a ticket.....no does not work. I'm stopping the car, not the person, period.

I would suggest speaking with your cousins for thoughts and go from there.

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Above is merely a suggestion/thought and in no way constitutes legal advice or views of my employer. www.OHTA.ca


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Re: 90 in an 80, but given 110 in an 80.
PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 10:59 am 
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dwelsby wrote:
An officer traveling the opposite direction spotted her and decided to turn around and follow her slowing down to 90.


Moving radar opposite mode. The officer turned around and she SLOWED down to 90. So what was the speed prior to her slowing? 99% of people see the cruiser, start braking (instinct) and then look at their speedometer...way too late. (I do that myself).

Also sounds a bit of the "blame game" so dad does not get mad that the insurance might go up, throw the diversion elsewhere. (not saying this happened, but have to think of all angles). My first question to my child is "why are you not travelling at the speed limit?"

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Above is merely a suggestion/thought and in no way constitutes legal advice or views of my employer. www.OHTA.ca


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Re: 90 in an 80, but given 110 in an 80.
PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 3:24 pm 
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hwybear wrote:
Moving radar opposite mode. The officer turned around and she SLOWED down to 90. So what was the speed prior to her slowing? 99% of people see the cruiser, start braking (instinct) and then look at their speedometer...way too late. (I do that myself).


Thanks for responding. She was doing 100 on the hwy to be more precise Hwy 60 near Ottawa. Her cousins have told her that normally officers including them, don't pull cars over if they are going with the flow of traffic on the hwy and the flow of traffic does not exceed exceed 25km in a 400 series hwy. There was hardly any traffic on this hwy on Sunday. So it was just her and this officer and maybe a 1 or 2 cars. BTW I'm married to their uncle.

It is very easy if your not watching to lose your bearings in terms of speed. As you have mentioned, you do that yourself. The difference is you probably won't get a ticket. She did admit that she was speeding to her father and had called him right after she got a ticket and explained what had happened. He's a little upset that the officer would do something like that knowing the integrity of his nephews and niece.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 4:40 pm 
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After your daughter has sent in the ticket with the "not guilty" part checked off, get a trial date set and make sure to request disclosure from the Crown to see the evidence that the officer has regarding the speeding charge. No radar? Okay, so he might've paced her after he turned and followed her. Is the speedometer of the cruiser calibrated? When was it calibrated? Those are important questions, among others. A good website for fighting tickets is www.ticketcombat.com. Many reliable, proven strategies available there.

Your daughter might also get a First Attendance meeting, not sure if they will in that part of Ontario. Essentially it's where the Prosecutor will try to get her to plea bargain. My advice is just to say "I'm not guilty, drop the charge." If they don't drop it, set a court date. If they don't give a First Attendance meeting (they don't have to), the court date will be set.

It is a popular misconception that the officer has an obligation to show the person they pulled over some sort of radar or lidar reading. You can ask, but they don't have to show it. They don't have to "show cause" to a motorist at the roadside. This would be similar to being stopped for a running a red light and demanding that the officer show a photograph of them driving through the red.

As for the officer's conduct, Bookm's advice is dead on. File an official complaint. This website is where to start:
http://www.occps.ca/englishwebsite/proc ... mphlet.asp


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Re: 90 in an 80, but given 110 in an 80.
PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 5:36 pm 
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dwelsby wrote:
He's a little upset that the officer would do something like that knowing the integrity of his nephews and niece.


Understandably so!

dwelsby wrote:
Her cousins have told her that normally officers including them, don't pull cars over if they are going with the flow of traffic on the hwy and the flow of traffic does not exceed exceed 25km in a 400 series hwy.

I routinely stop vehicles at speeds lower than 25 over, that is on a 400 series hwy.

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Above is merely a suggestion/thought and in no way constitutes legal advice or views of my employer. www.OHTA.ca


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Re: 90 in an 80, but given 110 in an 80.
PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 7:30 pm 
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hwybear wrote:
I routinely stop vehicles at speeds lower than 25 over, that is on a 400 series hwy.


Her cousins have told her to file a complaint. There's really not much that they can do. I was wrong to say 25 and under. They did however, mentioned that most of the time they first assess the surroundings to warrant a pull over.. driving erratically, overloading, weather conditions.....etc. Their philosophy at that speed and on those hwy's...common sense rules.


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