Hi, thanks for reading. I've read a bunch of articles online and searched the forum to try and find my answers but I'm still unsure so I'm creating a new thread. I was following a car that was going SUPER fast down the DVP but I got pulled over. I was speeding, too; however I don't want to use the "you got the wrong guy" defence because I'll probably lose. Anyway, it was on my birthday and I'm wondering if the fatal flaws on my ticket are a gift from the cop lol. Actually, I really just want to know how to fight it! 1) The offence date was written as April 4th, but it actually occurred April 5th. I have witnesses to prove I was at work on the 4th, if that matters. 2) The set fine was $294. This part confuses me because the HTA fine is $7 per km and the OCoJ is $6. 49*6=294, so he got that right if the OCoJ fine is used. But I was officially charged with "139km/hr in a 90km/hr zone - HTA 128" (no sub section was written). That set fine should come with a $60 victim charge (or whatever it's called), but the total payable was written as $355. That's a $61 fine. I can only find reference to a $5 court fee, but nothing for only $1. I've read that if I go to trial and point these flaws out to the prosecutor that he can just change it and then I'm screwed. I've also read that if I ignore the whole thing (forcing the fatal flaw) that the court might not notice and fine me anyway...risky. So, if I choose the pre-trial option and point out the 2 fatal flaws, will that work? Should I wait for trial and be like "oh, the wrong date...my whole defence was prepared for April 4th...I clearly wasn't driving then and the officer probably wasn't even on duty that night at that location, blah blah blah". Thoughts?
Hi, thanks for reading. I've read a bunch of articles online and searched the forum to try and find my answers but I'm still unsure so I'm creating a new thread.
I was following a car that was going SUPER fast down the DVP but I got pulled over. I was speeding, too; however I don't want to use the "you got the wrong guy" defence because I'll probably lose.
Anyway, it was on my birthday and I'm wondering if the fatal flaws on my ticket are a gift from the cop lol. Actually, I really just want to know how to fight it!
1) The offence date was written as April 4th, but it actually occurred April 5th. I have witnesses to prove I was at work on the 4th, if that matters.
2) The set fine was $294. This part confuses me because the HTA fine is $7 per km and the OCoJ is $6. 49*6=294, so he got that right if the OCoJ fine is used. But I was officially charged with "139km/hr in a 90km/hr zone - HTA 128" (no sub section was written). That set fine should come with a $60 victim charge (or whatever it's called), but the total payable was written as $355. That's a $61 fine. I can only find reference to a $5 court fee, but nothing for only $1.
I've read that if I go to trial and point these flaws out to the prosecutor that he can just change it and then I'm screwed. I've also read that if I ignore the whole thing (forcing the fatal flaw) that the court might not notice and fine me anyway...risky.
So, if I choose the pre-trial option and point out the 2 fatal flaws, will that work? Should I wait for trial and be like "oh, the wrong date...my whole defence was prepared for April 4th...I clearly wasn't driving then and the officer probably wasn't even on duty that night at that location, blah blah blah".
1) The date is amendable in court and is not a fatal flaw. 2) Just looked in the notebook comanion and the set fine for 49 over is $249 and the total payable is $355. Section 128 is correct for the charge and no sub-section is required. I see no fatal flaws in your ticket.
1) The date is amendable in court and is not a fatal flaw.
2) Just looked in the notebook comanion and the set fine for 49 over is $249 and the total payable is $355.
Section 128 is correct for the charge and no sub-section is required.
My fine sheet says it would be $359, which I think is correct. I'm wondering if they made a misprint in a batch of notebook companions. Base fine is $294, victim surcharge is $60 and court costs would be $5.
Decatur wrote:
2) Just looked in the notebook comanion and the set fine for 49 over is $249 and the total payable is $355.
My fine sheet says it would be $359, which I think is correct. I'm wondering if they made a misprint in a batch of notebook companions.
Base fine is $294, victim surcharge is $60 and court costs would be $5.
It's definitely a 5. So what should I do? Should I defend myself by ignoring the date thing and then saying I obviously wasn't there on the 4th? Will that work? I mean, obviously the cop pulled me over at SOME point. I'd be getting off on a technicality, that his testimony was the 4th even though it was the 5th.
It's definitely a 5.
So what should I do? Should I defend myself by ignoring the date thing and then saying I obviously wasn't there on the 4th? Will that work? I mean, obviously the cop pulled me over at SOME point. I'd be getting off on a technicality, that his testimony was the 4th even though it was the 5th.
Again, if you go to trial the error can be corrected. Probably your best approach would be to force a fatal error based on the incorrect fine. The ticketcombat site has a basic explanation of the process here: http://www.ticketcombat.com/offences/fi ... forceerror
Again, if you go to trial the error can be corrected. Probably your best approach would be to force a fatal error based on the incorrect fine.
Thanks for your advice. As the website says, forcing the fatal flaw seems risky, but I'm not sure why because it also says: "However, if they don't kill the traffic ticket, you then have an opportunity to appeal based on an error of law: the justice should have quashed the traffic ticket based on POA section 9(1)b,". To me that means I get 2 chances for the ticket to be squashed. If the prosecutor doesn't see the $4 error then I can re-open the case and show the judge that it SHOULD have been thrown out. Seems like a no-brainer...no? As for the date (which I'm pretty sure now ISN'T a fata flaw)...can't I just use the "I wasn't there on that date" defence? Assuming the officer doesn't correct the date before trial, when they show evidence I will have proof I was at work...end of story. Also, he has 7 days to file. Is that form the offence date? Cuz the offence date is the previous day, so that would mean he has only 6 "real" days! That could work out in my favour. How do I check if he has filed? Do I call Edward St.?
Thanks for your advice.
As the website says, forcing the fatal flaw seems risky, but I'm not sure why because it also says: "However, if they don't kill the traffic ticket, you then have an opportunity to appeal based on an error of law: the justice should have quashed the traffic ticket based on POA section 9(1)b,". To me that means I get 2 chances for the ticket to be squashed. If the prosecutor doesn't see the $4 error then I can re-open the case and show the judge that it SHOULD have been thrown out. Seems like a no-brainer...no?
As for the date (which I'm pretty sure now ISN'T a fata flaw)...can't I just use the "I wasn't there on that date" defence? Assuming the officer doesn't correct the date before trial, when they show evidence I will have proof I was at work...end of story.
Also, he has 7 days to file. Is that form the offence date? Cuz the offence date is the previous day, so that would mean he has only 6 "real" days! That could work out in my favour. How do I check if he has filed? Do I call Edward St.?
I just read the ruling on http://www.ontariocourts.on.ca/decision ... CA0429.htm and it speaks of errors in the "set fine" area...it doesn't mention the "total payable" which is where my error is. Ugh...
People have won in cases where the the set fine was correct and the total payable was wrong. Read this contributors experence for a case in point. Link: http://www.ontariohighwaytrafficact.com/topic2521.html
Any updates on this case? I got a ticket last Sunday but my situation is a bit different. My set fine was wrong but total payable was right. Got a speeding ticket n Barrie, ON for 23 km/h over the 50km/h posted speed limit (73km/h). I said sorry to the officer. He wrote the set fine 91.25 on the ticket + 111.25 total payable (I guess this is sum of court and victim surcharge). What he wrote on the ticket: Set Fine: 91.25 Total Payable: 111.25 What he should have written according to the speeding fines guidelines: Set Fine: 86.25 (since the ticket says I am 23km/h over) Total Payable = 111.25 Note that the total is CORRECT but the set fine is wrong (91.25 instead of 86.25). Should I do nothing in this case, I mean does "force the fatal error" apply to this scenario? My specific questions (or doubt) is that only the set fine amount is wrong, but the total payable (overall calculation) is correct.
Any updates on this case? I got a ticket last Sunday but my situation is a bit different. My set fine was wrong but total payable was right.
Got a speeding ticket n Barrie, ON for 23 km/h over the 50km/h posted speed limit (73km/h). I said sorry to the officer. He wrote the set fine 91.25 on the ticket + 111.25 total payable (I guess this is sum of court and victim surcharge).
What he wrote on the ticket:
Set Fine: 91.25
Total Payable: 111.25
What he should have written according to the speeding fines guidelines:
Set Fine: 86.25 (since the ticket says I am 23km/h over)
Total Payable = 111.25
Note that the total is CORRECT but the set fine is wrong (91.25 instead of 86.25).
Should I do nothing in this case, I mean does "force the fatal error" apply to this scenario? My specific questions (or doubt) is that only the set fine amount is wrong, but the total payable (overall calculation) is correct.
Hi Musketeer, Forcing a fatal error, as in ignoring the ticket and appealing if they get a default judgment against you, should work in your situation. There are two cases you should look at: 1. London (City) v. Young at paragraph 16 mentions situations where the set fine was wrong and the total payable was correct. http://www.ontariocourts.on.ca/decision ... CA0429.htm 2. R. v. Monahan et al. paragraphs 33 to 37 goes into greater detail about the issue. http://www.canlii.org/en/on/oncj/doc/20 ... cj298.html Both cases indicate that an incorrect set fine is a fatal error even if the total payable is correct. If you wind up in court be sure to bring and cite both cases. I would read both of them all the way through so that you have a complete understanding of the arguments they are making in case the court has questions for you when you are making your case. You can also do a quick case law search using the CanLii database to look at the most recent case law on the subject. http://www.canlii.org/en/index.html
Hi Musketeer,
Forcing a fatal error, as in ignoring the ticket and appealing if they get a default judgment against you, should work in your situation. There are two cases you should look at:
Both cases indicate that an incorrect set fine is a fatal error even if the total payable is correct. If you wind up in court be sure to bring and cite both cases. I would read both of them all the way through so that you have a complete understanding of the arguments they are making in case the court has questions for you when you are making your case.
You can also do a quick case law search using the CanLii database to look at the most recent case law on the subject. http://www.canlii.org/en/index.html
UPDATE: So my ticket was NOT quashed and I had to pay the fine. I filed for an appeal and my court date is in one month so I'm revisiting all of this stuff to prepare for my case. On Aug 2nd (4 months after my initial ticket), I paid the fine of $384 that they sent me in the mail. There was a $30 late fee charged on top of the listed $354 ticket cost -- obviously a clerical error as the ticket was actually set for $355. I saved $1, yay lol I'm going to use all of these wrong fine amounts in my case, pleading that the whole situation is a mess and should just be quashed. Thoughts?
UPDATE:
So my ticket was NOT quashed and I had to pay the fine. I filed for an appeal and my court date is in one month so I'm revisiting all of this stuff to prepare for my case.
On Aug 2nd (4 months after my initial ticket), I paid the fine of $384 that they sent me in the mail. There was a $30 late fee charged on top of the listed $354 ticket cost -- obviously a clerical error as the ticket was actually set for $355. I saved $1, yay lol
I'm going to use all of these wrong fine amounts in my case, pleading that the whole situation is a mess and should just be quashed.
I got ticket for failing to stop at stop sign in Toronto. i heard that the police officer must see the stop line, if there is one, from where he was sitting. That is exactly my case, Is it a strong case? If so do i need a picture to show that there is a stop line and a picture to show that he could not see the stop line from where he was sitting?
I got a ticket, Disobey stop sign, sec 136.1.a on dec 6th
I made a left in an intersection and was pulled over by a police officer in an unmarked car who had been sitting down the road. A classic fishing hole situation. I was genuinely surprised when he stopped me and told me I went through a stop sign without even slowing down. I know to shut up and be polite and take the ticket. I…
Yesterday morning, I rear-ended someone. I was going the speed limit. The sun was directly in front of me and it blinded my windshield and my eyes. At the same time, the person in front of me stopped/slowed down (also due to the sun). I started to slow down but didn't stop and I hit them since I couldn't see anything. I was not driving too close initially. I…
I was driving in the county at night and hit a limousine stretched out side ways across the road. The limo had its lights on and had side lighting as well. The police officer charged me with careless driving because it was "fully lit up".
It took me to the next day to figure out what had happened - what I remember made no sense. What I had run across was a "false visual reference" illusion.
I was on hwy 37 trying to make my girlfriends ganadmas mass and I live an hour away and I had an hour to get there so I was going fast but not 50 over untill some idiot got on my tail soo close that I was to concentrated on him that I kept going faster untill I got pulled over at 147 on an 80 km hwy.
I alreaddy lost 3 points and this time was just the…
Hello, got stopped today for rolling a stop sign. Ticket says failure to stop, but quotes hta 1361b.
Doesn't 1361b mean failure to yield?
Is this a fatal error? Or could it be amended at trial. How can I prepare a defence if I don't know if I'm defending the failure to stop or the failure to yield?
After he was providing me with a ticket for failure to obey to the stop sign (I am pretty sure I stopped but less than 3 seconds recommended by my driver ed. instructor), I know everybody say that..as an excuse.
Then he stopped me again to return the documents.
Any advice and feed back would be really appreciated.
Can you get evidence for whether someone had an advanced green at an intersection? My dad was making a right turn on a red (after stopping) into a plaza parking lot. He got hit by someone making a left turn from the opposite lane. The driver told the officer called to the collision that he had an advance green. My dad said he came out of nowhere which makes me…
So i was driving on Eglinton Avenue East near Rosemount Ave.
The school bus was on the the curb on the opposite side of the road while i was travelling on the middle lane of the three-laned Eglinton Avenue East (five lanes apart plus a raised median island seperating the traffic)
I could not see the school bus as my view of the bus was being obstructed by the cars in front of me and on my left hand…
Lots of good information on getting disclosure from the Crown here.
Now, I am just wondering if I will be relying upon evidence of my own at trial... do I have to voluntarily send this material to the Crown in a reasonable time before the trial, or only if they request disclosure from me?
This morning I had an exam for university. I was studying the entire night and i wanted to catch like maybe 1-2 hours of sleep before the exam so i went to sleep. I woke up like 5 hrs after and realize that I was about to miss my exam. I still could have made it so I asked my dad for his car since I was in a huge rush and he gave it to me.
I went on the highway and I was going at 135 km/h but…
the police officer was in in the opesite oncumming lane he was fallowing another car so close that i was not even able to see his cruser till he was buy he said that i was going 111 in a 80 he said he hade me on radar he only asked for me drivers licencs and never asked for my insurence so on the ticket there no insurence dose enyone think i can beat this i wana take it to cort becuse he was…
Hi I have a couple questions so I'll explain my situation and any advice would be appreciated.
Can't remember exact date so lets call it some time in 2008 I got a fine for $5000.00 for driving without in insurance. I never paid the fine and in 2012 I was pulled over and the officer asked to see my license. Although I had it on me I figured it would be under suspension for the unpaid fine from…
Alright, so I did something really stupid the other day, I was driving down a country road and wanted to hit the curves so I passed 3 cars at once, inadvertently making it up to very much past 50 over (80 limit)... Much to my chagrin there was a cop coming in the opposite direction who immediately skidded on the gravel shoulder and who I thought was 100% going to turn around and pull me over,…
Anyone know how backed this courthouse is? I submitted my ticket for trial at the end of August, and still no letter. Im scared it got lost in the mail, can i call the courthouse and find out my courtdate? Or would i have to go in personally?
I recently received a ticket for failure to use low beams - while following - Ticket was issued Sec 168 (
- it was on the 401 and no one was within 500 meters of me, I was warning a oncoming vehicle that there was an officer hiding (which is not illegal or I could not find a law against it) it was a police vehicle travelling at very high rate of speed in the opposite direction with no lights on…
I received a warning letter from MTO for a 2pts ticket.What happened is that the police officer issued a "unsafe left turn" and then changed the ticket to "failed to signal" at the scene, but she submitted both tickets!!! And I !!!ONLY!!! received the latter ticket from her(I requested trial for "failed to signal"). I recently received notice from MTO that I'm convicted for "unsafe left turn".
Hello everyone! I was given a ticket for using a hand-held communication device while driving. It was 3 am, I was at a stop light and the cop saw me with the my phone in my hand. I told him i was just checking the time on it. I received the notes a few weeks ago ill copy them down below. Any help is appreciated although i believe there's no hope for me. The cop recorded me saying what phone i…
I got pulled over about 15 or so days ago the court till this date has not received the summons what is the legal time period that the court has to follow to accept the summons from the office court says its 15 days is the legal timeframe the officer has to serve it on the court
I requested for disclosure of information two months ago.
I received the radar manual after one month, but not others (including maintenance/calibration record of the radar, certificate of police training). On further pursuit, the prosecutor told me that he did not have them and he did not see why I needed these documents. He said he did not know where to get them when I asked.
Last Friday I was pulled over by an OPP motorcycle cop who informed me I was going 134. I was on the SB 404, I did see him parked under a bridge and when I passed him he was not on his bike.
I'm hoping to get some insight for a defense in this case.
I was in lane 1 and I had a car in front of me, and a car behind me, also there was a car speeding down Lane 3 passing everyone and moved quickly into…
