Hi, thanks for reading. I've read a bunch of articles online and searched the forum to try and find my answers but I'm still unsure so I'm creating a new thread. I was following a car that was going SUPER fast down the DVP but I got pulled over. I was speeding, too; however I don't want to use the "you got the wrong guy" defence because I'll probably lose. Anyway, it was on my birthday and I'm wondering if the fatal flaws on my ticket are a gift from the cop lol. Actually, I really just want to know how to fight it! 1) The offence date was written as April 4th, but it actually occurred April 5th. I have witnesses to prove I was at work on the 4th, if that matters. 2) The set fine was $294. This part confuses me because the HTA fine is $7 per km and the OCoJ is $6. 49*6=294, so he got that right if the OCoJ fine is used. But I was officially charged with "139km/hr in a 90km/hr zone - HTA 128" (no sub section was written). That set fine should come with a $60 victim charge (or whatever it's called), but the total payable was written as $355. That's a $61 fine. I can only find reference to a $5 court fee, but nothing for only $1. I've read that if I go to trial and point these flaws out to the prosecutor that he can just change it and then I'm screwed. I've also read that if I ignore the whole thing (forcing the fatal flaw) that the court might not notice and fine me anyway...risky. So, if I choose the pre-trial option and point out the 2 fatal flaws, will that work? Should I wait for trial and be like "oh, the wrong date...my whole defence was prepared for April 4th...I clearly wasn't driving then and the officer probably wasn't even on duty that night at that location, blah blah blah". Thoughts?
Hi, thanks for reading. I've read a bunch of articles online and searched the forum to try and find my answers but I'm still unsure so I'm creating a new thread.
I was following a car that was going SUPER fast down the DVP but I got pulled over. I was speeding, too; however I don't want to use the "you got the wrong guy" defence because I'll probably lose.
Anyway, it was on my birthday and I'm wondering if the fatal flaws on my ticket are a gift from the cop lol. Actually, I really just want to know how to fight it!
1) The offence date was written as April 4th, but it actually occurred April 5th. I have witnesses to prove I was at work on the 4th, if that matters.
2) The set fine was $294. This part confuses me because the HTA fine is $7 per km and the OCoJ is $6. 49*6=294, so he got that right if the OCoJ fine is used. But I was officially charged with "139km/hr in a 90km/hr zone - HTA 128" (no sub section was written). That set fine should come with a $60 victim charge (or whatever it's called), but the total payable was written as $355. That's a $61 fine. I can only find reference to a $5 court fee, but nothing for only $1.
I've read that if I go to trial and point these flaws out to the prosecutor that he can just change it and then I'm screwed. I've also read that if I ignore the whole thing (forcing the fatal flaw) that the court might not notice and fine me anyway...risky.
So, if I choose the pre-trial option and point out the 2 fatal flaws, will that work? Should I wait for trial and be like "oh, the wrong date...my whole defence was prepared for April 4th...I clearly wasn't driving then and the officer probably wasn't even on duty that night at that location, blah blah blah".
1) The date is amendable in court and is not a fatal flaw. 2) Just looked in the notebook comanion and the set fine for 49 over is $249 and the total payable is $355. Section 128 is correct for the charge and no sub-section is required. I see no fatal flaws in your ticket.
1) The date is amendable in court and is not a fatal flaw.
2) Just looked in the notebook comanion and the set fine for 49 over is $249 and the total payable is $355.
Section 128 is correct for the charge and no sub-section is required.
My fine sheet says it would be $359, which I think is correct. I'm wondering if they made a misprint in a batch of notebook companions. Base fine is $294, victim surcharge is $60 and court costs would be $5.
Decatur wrote:
2) Just looked in the notebook comanion and the set fine for 49 over is $249 and the total payable is $355.
My fine sheet says it would be $359, which I think is correct. I'm wondering if they made a misprint in a batch of notebook companions.
Base fine is $294, victim surcharge is $60 and court costs would be $5.
It's definitely a 5. So what should I do? Should I defend myself by ignoring the date thing and then saying I obviously wasn't there on the 4th? Will that work? I mean, obviously the cop pulled me over at SOME point. I'd be getting off on a technicality, that his testimony was the 4th even though it was the 5th.
It's definitely a 5.
So what should I do? Should I defend myself by ignoring the date thing and then saying I obviously wasn't there on the 4th? Will that work? I mean, obviously the cop pulled me over at SOME point. I'd be getting off on a technicality, that his testimony was the 4th even though it was the 5th.
Again, if you go to trial the error can be corrected. Probably your best approach would be to force a fatal error based on the incorrect fine. The ticketcombat site has a basic explanation of the process here: http://www.ticketcombat.com/offences/fi ... forceerror
Again, if you go to trial the error can be corrected. Probably your best approach would be to force a fatal error based on the incorrect fine.
Thanks for your advice. As the website says, forcing the fatal flaw seems risky, but I'm not sure why because it also says: "However, if they don't kill the traffic ticket, you then have an opportunity to appeal based on an error of law: the justice should have quashed the traffic ticket based on POA section 9(1)b,". To me that means I get 2 chances for the ticket to be squashed. If the prosecutor doesn't see the $4 error then I can re-open the case and show the judge that it SHOULD have been thrown out. Seems like a no-brainer...no? As for the date (which I'm pretty sure now ISN'T a fata flaw)...can't I just use the "I wasn't there on that date" defence? Assuming the officer doesn't correct the date before trial, when they show evidence I will have proof I was at work...end of story. Also, he has 7 days to file. Is that form the offence date? Cuz the offence date is the previous day, so that would mean he has only 6 "real" days! That could work out in my favour. How do I check if he has filed? Do I call Edward St.?
Thanks for your advice.
As the website says, forcing the fatal flaw seems risky, but I'm not sure why because it also says: "However, if they don't kill the traffic ticket, you then have an opportunity to appeal based on an error of law: the justice should have quashed the traffic ticket based on POA section 9(1)b,". To me that means I get 2 chances for the ticket to be squashed. If the prosecutor doesn't see the $4 error then I can re-open the case and show the judge that it SHOULD have been thrown out. Seems like a no-brainer...no?
As for the date (which I'm pretty sure now ISN'T a fata flaw)...can't I just use the "I wasn't there on that date" defence? Assuming the officer doesn't correct the date before trial, when they show evidence I will have proof I was at work...end of story.
Also, he has 7 days to file. Is that form the offence date? Cuz the offence date is the previous day, so that would mean he has only 6 "real" days! That could work out in my favour. How do I check if he has filed? Do I call Edward St.?
I just read the ruling on http://www.ontariocourts.on.ca/decision ... CA0429.htm and it speaks of errors in the "set fine" area...it doesn't mention the "total payable" which is where my error is. Ugh...
People have won in cases where the the set fine was correct and the total payable was wrong. Read this contributors experence for a case in point. Link: http://www.ontariohighwaytrafficact.com/topic2521.html
Any updates on this case? I got a ticket last Sunday but my situation is a bit different. My set fine was wrong but total payable was right. Got a speeding ticket n Barrie, ON for 23 km/h over the 50km/h posted speed limit (73km/h). I said sorry to the officer. He wrote the set fine 91.25 on the ticket + 111.25 total payable (I guess this is sum of court and victim surcharge). What he wrote on the ticket: Set Fine: 91.25 Total Payable: 111.25 What he should have written according to the speeding fines guidelines: Set Fine: 86.25 (since the ticket says I am 23km/h over) Total Payable = 111.25 Note that the total is CORRECT but the set fine is wrong (91.25 instead of 86.25). Should I do nothing in this case, I mean does "force the fatal error" apply to this scenario? My specific questions (or doubt) is that only the set fine amount is wrong, but the total payable (overall calculation) is correct.
Any updates on this case? I got a ticket last Sunday but my situation is a bit different. My set fine was wrong but total payable was right.
Got a speeding ticket n Barrie, ON for 23 km/h over the 50km/h posted speed limit (73km/h). I said sorry to the officer. He wrote the set fine 91.25 on the ticket + 111.25 total payable (I guess this is sum of court and victim surcharge).
What he wrote on the ticket:
Set Fine: 91.25
Total Payable: 111.25
What he should have written according to the speeding fines guidelines:
Set Fine: 86.25 (since the ticket says I am 23km/h over)
Total Payable = 111.25
Note that the total is CORRECT but the set fine is wrong (91.25 instead of 86.25).
Should I do nothing in this case, I mean does "force the fatal error" apply to this scenario? My specific questions (or doubt) is that only the set fine amount is wrong, but the total payable (overall calculation) is correct.
Hi Musketeer, Forcing a fatal error, as in ignoring the ticket and appealing if they get a default judgment against you, should work in your situation. There are two cases you should look at: 1. London (City) v. Young at paragraph 16 mentions situations where the set fine was wrong and the total payable was correct. http://www.ontariocourts.on.ca/decision ... CA0429.htm 2. R. v. Monahan et al. paragraphs 33 to 37 goes into greater detail about the issue. http://www.canlii.org/en/on/oncj/doc/20 ... cj298.html Both cases indicate that an incorrect set fine is a fatal error even if the total payable is correct. If you wind up in court be sure to bring and cite both cases. I would read both of them all the way through so that you have a complete understanding of the arguments they are making in case the court has questions for you when you are making your case. You can also do a quick case law search using the CanLii database to look at the most recent case law on the subject. http://www.canlii.org/en/index.html
Hi Musketeer,
Forcing a fatal error, as in ignoring the ticket and appealing if they get a default judgment against you, should work in your situation. There are two cases you should look at:
Both cases indicate that an incorrect set fine is a fatal error even if the total payable is correct. If you wind up in court be sure to bring and cite both cases. I would read both of them all the way through so that you have a complete understanding of the arguments they are making in case the court has questions for you when you are making your case.
You can also do a quick case law search using the CanLii database to look at the most recent case law on the subject. http://www.canlii.org/en/index.html
UPDATE: So my ticket was NOT quashed and I had to pay the fine. I filed for an appeal and my court date is in one month so I'm revisiting all of this stuff to prepare for my case. On Aug 2nd (4 months after my initial ticket), I paid the fine of $384 that they sent me in the mail. There was a $30 late fee charged on top of the listed $354 ticket cost -- obviously a clerical error as the ticket was actually set for $355. I saved $1, yay lol I'm going to use all of these wrong fine amounts in my case, pleading that the whole situation is a mess and should just be quashed. Thoughts?
UPDATE:
So my ticket was NOT quashed and I had to pay the fine. I filed for an appeal and my court date is in one month so I'm revisiting all of this stuff to prepare for my case.
On Aug 2nd (4 months after my initial ticket), I paid the fine of $384 that they sent me in the mail. There was a $30 late fee charged on top of the listed $354 ticket cost -- obviously a clerical error as the ticket was actually set for $355. I saved $1, yay lol
I'm going to use all of these wrong fine amounts in my case, pleading that the whole situation is a mess and should just be quashed.
So heres my case, does it have any validity? Im argueing that the officer did not have a justified view of where and if my car stopped or not, which it did.
This is the officers view of the stop sign i "disobeyed"
Another possible viewpoint, just so i can say that he cant see regardless
As you can see he cannot see the line where i must stop
As close are possible (which he wasnt) to the intersection,…
I need some help to settle a "Right of Way" argument. I know this question has probably been asked a thousand times before, but after doing a search, I was unable to find a posting on the forum, or the specific section in the OHTA relating to it.
Scenario:
Two cars approach an intersection where the east and westbound directions are controlled by stop signs, and the north and southbound…
I was pulled over for doing 123 in an 80 zone on highway 7 near Peterborough. The officer reduced it to 109 in an 80. It was HIGHLY unlikely that I was going 109, let alone 123, so for the merit of it I am taking this to court. Court case mid January.
Please could you help me to decipher the officer's notes. Are there any errors in the notes or on the ticket that you can see?
Ive already done searches, read the act as best i can but still haven't read a complete answer. Where in the HTA does it state that the front license plate must be attached to the front bumper? I have it on the passenger sun visor (if ppl remember the old temp permits that taped to the pass side of windshield) i figured that this spot would be the same. However now they have got rid of…
Was pulled over earlier today for going 95km/h in posted 60km/h, 2nd offense (same cop that pulled me over the first time >.<) ticket of $265. going down dougall toward cabana where it goes from the 80 to 60 zone (yes was over slightly coming in and kept speed)
Just wondering what the best way to handle this? (location: windsor ontario)
I am a bartender and last saturday night while I was working someone backed into my car (2000 Acura Integra) in the prking lot. One of the cooks in the kitchen ran to tell me my car alarm is going off. Immediately I ran outside to discover my driver side mirror smashed on the ground and my driver door dented. There was nobody around to claim responsibility. I had already begun to suspect one…
Scenario regarding speeding charge - if a charge is not reduced at all at roadside, i.e. the charge, for example is "speeding 75 km/h in a 60 km/h zone contrary to s. 128," should that not mean the prosecution needs to prove that you are guilty of what you are being charged with, and not, simply, of speeding generally? I understand that if they prove a charge of even 61 km/h in a 60 km/h, they…
In a nutshell, in York Region, ran a stale yellow, cop was on a 407 off ramp and tickets me for red light. 2 week old pink slip, I forgot I put the new behind the expired one so I got a ticket for that as well.
Had the first court date adjourned because I did not receive disclosure. I used the Ticketcombat template and faxed it over, they told me I never left a phone number. No surprise there, I…
Was stopped in an OPP speed trap on eastbound QEW near Hamilton at 1:30 AM last week (Apr 25th). Officer said I was doing 131 km/h based on radar gun but I thought I was around 120 km/h (I let off the gas and looked at my speedo when I saw the 2 cars on the shoulder). It was a dark stretch and it was not busy but there were a few other cars on the highway. I asked to see the reading but they said…
1) Discovery info includes 3 pages of Genesis radar manual. Officer's notes show he used "Atlantic Laser" to measure speed. Didn't show model # (only s/n). The Genesis was used earlier on in the day, but not for my case. Can I grill him on this or is it simply a clerk's error in sending me the wrong manual?
I got a ticket for an expired licence sticker. The next day I went to the Ministry office to renew my sticker. I thought that I HAD to pay any outstanding tickets BEFORE I was eligible to renew my sticker. The lady at the desk informed me that I had an outstanding balance and 407 bill that I had a to pay and I told her that I was aware of that. I thought everything was cleared.
Last week I was driving though downtown and because of the slippery / wet conditions could not stop when the light was turning yellow to red and slid in to the intersection. I was hit by another car (near the headlamp). None of us were injured, there was significat damge to the cars. The air bags did not deploy.
I was given a ticket that reads : Red Light - fail to stop - H.T.A sect 144 (18) Fine…
I was just wondering if there was any text in the HTA that suggests that when driving on a highway with three lanes going in each direction, drivers should generally always be in the rightmost lane unless they are passing.
At first, I thought 154(b) was what I was looking for, but now I'm not so sure?
"Officials in West Vancouver, Canada apparently aren't satisfied with the driver-slowing properties of traditional speed bumps. Yesterday, the town unveiled a new way to entice motorists to ease off the gas pedal in the vicinity of the ÃÂcole Pauline Johnson Elementary School: A 2-D image of a child playing, creating the illusion that…
Does anybody know how you can check the status of your Demerit Points and how many you have collected over the last two years?
I just received a ticket as I was travelling through Barrie and am debating whether or not to fight it. My decision will be based on whether or not an infraction I received a year ago came with Demerit Points.
I have a question I would like to ask concerning turning right on a red light.
I was approaching on the right turn only lane to the traffic light which turned from amber to red. As soon as the red light came on, there were advance green left turn arrow for the intersection I was for the cars that were traveling right to left and left to right of me. Since there was a lot of traffic from where I…
So I got pulled over for speeding and following too close, on HWY 11 north of Barrie. The airplane caught me! I will fight this as I have fought ALL my tickets and won EVERY ONE of them (one per year... man I need to drive slower). So any thoughts out there on how to fight this one? Does the Crown have to bring the 2 officers in the plane, plus the one in the cruises to court? If 1 in 3 doesn't…
I am new to this forum and before making this post I did some digging and was unable to find anything on this method of officer note taking.
A little back ground of my case:
charged with 25km/h over the posted limit.
After numerous disclosure requests, finally received a detailed disclosure including several pages of the lidar manual and typed officer notes describing the events of my…
My wife was just pulled over for running a yellow light and instead was ticketed for an expired drivers licence. The license expired on her birthdate 4 months ago and she didn;t recieve a renewal. $325 !!!!!!
Hope someone can help. She was ticketed under HTA 32 (1) with the offense shown as
"Drive Motor Vehicle no license"
Can anyone tell me if this is worth the effort to get a reduction in the…
So I got pulled over for supposedly for running a stop sign. The problem is that I did a complete stop, waited a split second and started again. And yes I did stop behind the white line.
He took my information and went back to his car to write me up a ticket, came back and gave me my fine and explained to me the process. He gave me a reduced fine (65$ and ne points).
Someone has an accident in a car worth very little on highway 401 but the car is not drivable (but not in terrible shape), there is a police report filed right away in which no other cars were involved, however the car did strike a guardrail. Is it possible to handle this without involving insurance? Or is a forgone conclusion insurance will be notified by the police?
I made a minor mistake on my disclosure request - I put a "Request Date" of September 10, 2014 instead of 2015. The rest of the form is correct including offense date, fax date, trial date.
Will this affect my disclosure? Do I need to clear it up?
Also, I noticed the Ticket Combat disclosure form has a lot more information than what was posted in on this site. Is it OK to send a second…
