Hi everyone, My husband was driving my car and passed a school bus with flashing lights. He did not realize this until he was past the bus. The driver honked at him but there were no cops nearby and he didn't get pulled over. I believe the driver or witnesses reported this and we got issued a ticket in the mail. The ticket is under my name as the registered owner: charged with Fail to Stop for School Bus- Overtaking- Owner . Section 175 (20). I've heard some reassuring comments that subsection 20 (owner) does not carry demerit points like subsection 11 or 12 (driver), which carry 6 points. I've also read that this charge does not show up on the driver's abstract. Can anyone confirm that? What is the source of this information? I've requested early resolution.. not sure what it will accomplish but I figure it's a first step. I might consider trial but would I then have to identify my husband as the driver? Can the ticket be re-issued in his name as driver and then involve the 6 demerit points? I'm not worried about the ticket fee ... I'm more worried about insurance hikes. When I get an online quote and list "fail to stop for school bus", I get quoted insane things like $11,000 / year :O. I guess this is seen as a major conviction but the online quotes don't let you differentiate between subsection 20 (owner) and subsections 11 or 12 (driver). I would appreciate any advice... guidance.. help. If anyone has been in a similar situation, how did things end up for you? Thank you all :) .
Hi everyone,
My husband was driving my car and passed a school bus with flashing lights. He did not realize this until he was past the bus. The driver honked at him but there were no cops nearby and he didn't get pulled over. I believe the driver or witnesses reported this and we got issued a ticket in the mail. The ticket is under my name as the registered owner: charged with Fail to Stop for School Bus- Overtaking- Owner . Section 175 (20). I've heard some reassuring comments that subsection 20 (owner) does not carry demerit points like subsection 11 or 12 (driver), which carry 6 points. I've also read that this charge does not show up on the driver's abstract. Can anyone confirm that? What is the source of this information? I've requested early resolution.. not sure what it will accomplish but I figure it's a first step. I might consider trial but would I then have to identify my husband as the driver? Can the ticket be re-issued in his name as driver and then involve the 6 demerit points? I'm not worried about the ticket fee ... I'm more worried about insurance hikes. When I get an online quote and list "fail to stop for school bus", I get quoted insane things like $11,000 / year :O. I guess this is seen as a major conviction but the online quotes don't let you differentiate between subsection 20 (owner) and subsections 11 or 12 (driver). I would appreciate any advice... guidance.. help. If anyone has been in a similar situation, how did things end up for you? Thank you all .
JUST PAY IT When you are charged as the OWNER and not the driver, then it does not affect insurance, it does not go on your drivers abstract and you do not accumulate any demerit points. So the easiest way to deal with an owner ticket, is to just pay it and you are only out the amount of the fine and it will not affect you any other way. TAKE IT TO TRIAL If you take it to trial, the person who called the police has to be there to testify as well as the police officer that wrote the ticket. This can sometimes work in your favor as witnesses do not always make it. If you go to trial and either you or husband get on the witness stand to testify, and they ask who was driving, then yes you would have to tell them. But there is no reason for either of you to get on the witness stand in this case, so you would NOT have to tell them who was driving. As long as neither of you are under oath, then you do not have answer any questions about the incident. The only other way they could identify the driver is if the police come to question you or your husband about the incident and one of you tells them he was driving. You have the right NOT TO TALK TO POLICE in this case and neither you or your husband are under any obligation to answer questions about it. So if they show up to ask questions, tell them you would prefer not to answer any questions about the incident. Do not lie about who was driving, just don't tell them (this is legally your right as a Canadian)! Also, you do not have to tell the prosecutor who was driving at the early resolution or any other time (unless under oath on the witness stand). Early resolution may or may not get you some kind of lesser charge. The prosecutor may offer you some kind of deal for a lesser charge, but make sure you are still being charged as the OWNER.
JUST PAY IT
When you are charged as the OWNER and not the driver, then it does not affect insurance, it does not go on your drivers abstract and you do not accumulate any demerit points. So the easiest way to deal with an owner ticket, is to just pay it and you are only out the amount of the fine and it will not affect you any other way.
TAKE IT TO TRIAL
If you take it to trial, the person who called the police has to be there to testify as well as the police officer that wrote the ticket. This can sometimes work in your favor as witnesses do not always make it.
If you go to trial and either you or husband get on the witness stand to testify, and they ask who was driving, then yes you would have to tell them. But there is no reason for either of you to get on the witness stand in this case, so you would NOT have to tell them who was driving. As long as neither of you are under oath, then you do not have answer any questions about the incident.
The only other way they could identify the driver is if the police come to question you or your husband about the incident and one of you tells them he was driving. You have the right NOT TO TALK TO POLICE in this case and neither you or your husband are under any obligation to answer questions about it. So if they show up to ask questions, tell them you would prefer not to answer any questions about the incident. Do not lie about who was driving, just don't tell them (this is legally your right as a Canadian)!
Also, you do not have to tell the prosecutor who was driving at the early resolution or any other time (unless under oath on the witness stand).
Early resolution may or may not get you some kind of lesser charge. The prosecutor may offer you some kind of deal for a lesser charge, but make sure you are still being charged as the OWNER.
Thank you jsherk for your thorough reply.... helps put things into perspective. Just curious.. is there an official source online or elsewhere that says that owner offences don't show up on an abstract?
Thank you jsherk for your thorough reply.... helps put things into perspective.
Just curious.. is there an official source online or elsewhere that says that owner offences don't show up on an abstract?
The conviction goes against your plates, not your license. If you don't pay, you can't renew your plates. Just like a parking ticket, red light camera, or any other offense where you are charged as the owner. If you're still not convinced, you can always call your insurance provider and ask.
Didi_87 wrote:
Just curious.. is there an official source online or elsewhere that says that owner offences don't show up on an abstract?
The conviction goes against your plates, not your license. If you don't pay, you can't renew your plates. Just like a parking ticket, red light camera, or any other offense where you are charged as the owner.
If you're still not convinced, you can always call your insurance provider and ask.
Hello, I talked to X-Copper and they reassured me that since the officer did not observe who the driver was and did not obtain a license, the charge goes against the vehicle in general and is not something that would show up on my driving abstract, thus would not affect insurance rates. They said it's similar to a red light camera ticket, which goes against the vehicle. I decided to go to court and chose option B (early resolution). They ended up reducing the amount of the ticket to $300 but did not withdraw the charge. I paid and a few weeks later obtained my driving abstract to make sure and there was no charge listed there on my personal abstract. My insurance rates did not go up at all.
Hello,
I talked to X-Copper and they reassured me that since the officer did not observe who the driver was and did not obtain a license, the charge goes against the vehicle in general and is not something that would show up on my driving abstract, thus would not affect insurance rates. They said it's similar to a red light camera ticket, which goes against the vehicle. I decided to go to court and chose option B (early resolution). They ended up reducing the amount of the ticket to $300 but did not withdraw the charge. I paid and a few weeks later obtained my driving abstract to make sure and there was no charge listed there on my personal abstract. My insurance rates did not go up at all.
If you seek representation for this charge, any respectable place will usually turn you down. It usually costs more to hire someone than the ticket is typically worth. Your average ticket may come with demerit points (if that matters to you) or the possibility of an insurance increase. Since the threat of added expenses may follow you even after you pay your fine, your representation has no problem accepting your money. Since there is no points and insurance implications, the fine is the end of the road. The charge does not attach itself to a license number. It follows the plate. If you don't pay, you can't renew your stickers.
If you seek representation for this charge, any respectable place will usually turn you down. It usually costs more to hire someone than the ticket is typically worth.
Your average ticket may come with demerit points (if that matters to you) or the possibility of an insurance increase. Since the threat of added expenses may follow you even after you pay your fine, your representation has no problem accepting your money.
Since there is no points and insurance implications, the fine is the end of the road. The charge does not attach itself to a license number. It follows the plate. If you don't pay, you can't renew your stickers.
I followed the procedures mentioned in the previous threads regarding the disclosure and received it today. My court date is November 5 2009 in Whitby. After going through the notes I realized 2 things:
1- the notes are horribly illegible and difficult to read
2- I have notes from two different officers.
Now I am not sure if this means that both the officers will be at court for the hearing or…
I hope I can paint the picture with the accuracy that the truth deserves. I have no intention of just beating a ticket.. but more like beating a really unfair ticket. You decide!
I had entered Canada after a short trip downsouth through Detroit on my way to Toronto. Not being equipped with a GPS unit I had to rely on the printable poorman's version from Mapquest. I followed Huron Church Rd.,…
Need an expert advice here. 10 days ago I got a speeding ticket. Ticket has a fatal error on its face-offense not known to law. It says speeding 75km/hr in posted 60km/hr zone. What is the best way to proceed?
1. Should I completely ignore this ticket and let the JP to quash it?
2. Should I go with option 3 - request a trial and force the fatal error by not showing up at court?
My name is Brian. I am in my late 20s and live in Toronto. I do not own a car but half a dozen times a year I rent one with my Visa. (To get out of the city and go to a beach or ski for example.)
I have never drunk and drive but I face a problem and Im wondering if anyone can tell me what to do. Several months ago I was at a weekend party and had quit a bit to consume. When I stopped…
I was travelling east bound on ellesmere road and approached markham road attempting to make a right turn. All signal lights were red and cars traveling down markham road south were given the green arrow. I slowed down and attempted to make the right turn. I got ticketed by a cop who was parked in a gas station facing the intersection in a (no parking zone). I…
Crested a hill, officer coming at me, pulled a u turn and pulled me over.
I will go back and look again but I thought I was in an 80 not a 70 and I am positive I wasn't doing more than 120. My speedo read 110-115. I have aftermarket tires and rims so I assume this would be the difference.
It was around 7pm, already dark, nobody on the road but myself,…
I am looking for the case law that is commonly used when the prosecution says they only need to disclose the testing pages of a radar manual or laser manual.
I am only interested in the binding decisions (appeals court or higher?), and not in the non-binding Justice of the Peace decisions.
I was pulled over two nights ago and charged with failing to stop a stop sign. On the ticket, it says 'disobey stop sign - foil to stop' and does not say 'fail' -- something I think may be a fatal flaw? I have been driving for 12 years with no tickets, yet I live in Brampton where insurance prices are high so I do not want to be convicted as my insurance rates will spike significantly and…
A friend of mine (who is from China and with no knowledge of English at all) asked me to interpret for him on court.
He got pulled over by a stealth patrol car last october, got 3 tickets (fail to show insurance card, using cell phones and fail to stop on right for emergency vehicle) , court date is next week. He told me his insurance expired for less than a month and other charges are false…
I understand the severity of my offences, and I can't stress how much I regret it. I know I endangered the lives of myself and more importantly others. I usually do not speed and I know running late for work is an unacceptable excuse. I will be a man and accept the consequences of my actions although I would appreciate any advice for my situation.
Guys back in january i got a speeding ticket on dvp, but i am 90% sure he did not caught me on radar, i asked for disclosure request and i just received today, I have asked for: a full copy of the police officers notes, a copy of both sides of the officers copy of the ticket, witness will say statements, speed gun manual, calibration record, repair history and officer's training certificate but…
I need some help here. So today I was on my way to get my tires changed from my winter tires to my regular summer staggered set of tires. I was driving in mississauga on my way to my destination, I got pulled over by an officer where I was given a ticket for having improper mudguards. For some context, I drive a stock 2013 C63 AMG with winter tires at the time. I was never…
I'd like to start this off by saying for the last two weeks I have been browsing the forums. I'm trying to prepare myself for an early resolution meeting with a prosecutor (in Brampton, if that matters). I have a clean record and as a teacher, I always do my best to follow rules (trying to practice what I preach!)
On December 4, 2014 I was preparing to turn right at a very busy intersection.…
I have question, today I was going to work in my normal route there is a triangle intersection with my side being the only one with a stop sign.
There's a car in front me who stopped at the stop sign, and the third-side there's a incoming car with their hazard-light flashing but they don't have stop sign, yet coming in at a slow speed.
Right after the car in front me went through the stop sign,…
On my way to work this morning I received a ticket for disobey sign. I was on Hwy 10 Mississauga in the right lane. The right lane leads to the 401 and there is a sign saying Right Lane Exits. I Tried to merge left before the on ramp as did 3 other people. We all got a ticket for doing that. Is there anything I can do? I did not realize I was breaking any law it was a dotted line where I tried to…
This is my first post, before I jump right in I would like to thank the forum, members, posters and moderators for all the information posted. I feel like I have been able to learn a lot from others experiences, so thank you all.
This will be a lengthy post. But if you are dealing with a Disobey Sign HTA 182(2) - No Straight Through Intersection you may find this extremely…
Let me start this with saying that this isn't in regards to a ticket, more a discussion surrounding front license plates and learning about the rules behind them. (Most of the quote stuff is using colloquial terms, mostly because I couldn't really find a better way to describe it; it's not meant to be offensive.)
I know Ontario law/HTA mandates having a front license plate unlike some States in…
Hi Guys! I've just had my trial day yesterday. I was not at fault but was convicted anyways.
It is such a travesty! There is no justice at the traffic court. It is just a no mercy machine to part someone with his money, no common sense applies and no reasonable argument being considered. Such a shame! The justice, the policeman and the prosecutor ganged up against me. The justice kept interrupting…
Well first of all ... glad to have found the forum - hoping to find answers to 'alot' of questions
I was unfortunate in July 2010 in that I ended up rolling my 2009 Ranger three times, through a fence and landing on the roof on a rained-out road that was/is in need of proper repair in Eastern Ontario.
I was assisted out of the vehicle by the driver who was behind me.
I was traveling down the 401, noticed a speed trap, and started flashing my lights -- in order to warn oncoming drivers.
Within a 30 seconds, a car slowed, crossed the grass, and approached me from behind. Lights appeared, and I then realised that this was an officer in an undercover car.
The officer pulled me over, and while he was polite, clearly his motivation was to…
Does anyone know the specific law, statute, Charter right to refer to when a prosecutor or justice attempts to change the charge on a ticket after a trial has begun? I assume I'd object immediately (without interrupting anyone, of course) but what would be the specific legal basis of my objection?
I was right behind a school bus that looked like it was pulling over to the side in order to turn down a side street, I saw no lights so decided to go around (wide street). Was still moving as I was passing, then as I did pass I heard horn and looked back and in fact it was pulling over to p/u school kids (was a block away from my son's school, so just assumed it wouldn't be picking up kids...it…
.
