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Ontario Highway Traffic Act

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Defective Braking System: $110
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2009 2:34 pm 
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pulled over leaving a survey in guelph. After arguing with the officer for about 10 minutes, he mentioned something being wrong with my truck. Told me to put on my emergency brake, and i did. Told me to put it in gear, and i did, truck did not move. Told me to hit the gas, and i did and the truck moved... i let off the gas and the truck stopped. he asked "is it all the way to the floor" and i said no. He said well you are getting a ticket for a defective braking system.

I will post the picture in a bit, laptop is charging.....


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2009 4:16 pm 
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kinda bad pic but no scanner til wednesday.... sorry.

So far it will be the usual. Ill mail it in with not guilty and see what happens. Probably file some complaints on Tuesday though before i send it in.

As i dont think its a moving violation... well i donno... what should i be looking for?

** picture edited out ** see PM

oops ill fix that and repost the ticket tomorow.

No takers on this one? lol...


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 7:23 am 
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This has me a tad confused...

Is it called an "Emergency Brake" or a "Parking Brake"? I hear it called both.

Frankly, I would rather the e-brake NOT lock up the rear-end (under engine power). Lock up the rear in an emergency and the ars-end is comin' around quick!

It definitely seemed to hold the truck just fine for parking purposes though.

Sounds like you did something to piss him off and he was going to just keep looking 'till he found something to ticket you on. Used to happen to me until I learned how to NOT argue back. Be respectful. Use all the manners mom taught you as a kid. Seems to work much better ;)


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 11:13 am 
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It's a parking brake, or can be 'hand brake' in cars with the hand lever. 'Emergency brake' is an outdated term; they haven't been able to stop a moving vehicle for decades now. They should hold a vehicle in neutral stationary on a hill, and that's about it. Emergency braking can be done by downshifting until first gear, at which speed the parking brake has some effect.

I have never driven a car where the parking brake was able to hold the car stationary under engine power. As far as I know, none of the places with mandatory inspections requires such a test, either.

The section I assume you were charged under (HTA ss. 64 (7)) requires two separate braking systems, one to stop a moving car and one to hold it stationary.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 1:17 pm 
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Squishy wrote:
As far as I know, none of the places with mandatory inspections requires such a test, either. .


Still a mandatory test.

HTA OREG 611, schedule 1
( 8 ) With the parking brake properly adjusted, the parking brake shall be tested by fully applying the control and then releasing it and,
(a) the brake, while set in the fully applied position and not held by foot or hand force, or by hydraulic or air pressure, shall hold the vehicle stationary against the engine at a light throttle setting for a few seconds both in reverse gear and in low forward gear; and
(b) the brake shall fully release when the release control is operated

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Above is merely a suggestion/thought and in no way constitutes legal advice or views of my employer. www.OHTA.ca


Last edited by hwybear on Wed Sep 09, 2009 7:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 2:35 pm 
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Learn something new here every day. So there is a requirement for commercial vehicles, I'm guessing to simulate an incline and maybe a load.

What would be "light throttle"? What happens if you have a torquey beast of a diesel work truck? :P

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 2:37 pm 
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Bookm wrote:
Sounds like you did something to piss him off and he was going to just keep looking 'till he found something to ticket you on. Used to happen to me until I learned how to NOT argue back. Be respectful. Use all the manners mom taught you as a kid. Seems to work much better ;)


I did piss him off. I was polite until his backup came and started going through the stuff in back of my truck, lifting up a tarp and such, i told him to stay out of my S***.

Squishy wrote:
The section I assume you were charged under (HTA ss. 64 (7)) requires two separate braking systems, one to stop a moving car and one to hold it stationary.


yes to 64(7). My driveway is pretty steep. It's the ONLY plae i've used the brake in the 18 months i've owned the truck. It hold's the truck in place there, and it has held the truck in place there in neutral when i had the front end on ramps, making it even steeper. I use the brake every day when i park it there so it doesn't rest on the trans brake when i put it in park. It's hard to shift into gear some times when i don't use it.

hwybear wrote:
( With the parking brake properly adjusted, the parking brake shall be tested by fully applying the control and then releasing it and,
(a) the brake, while set in the fully applied position and not held by foot or hand force, or by hydraulic or air pressure, shall hold the vehicle stationary against the engine at a light throttle setting for a few seconds both in reverse gear and in low forward gear; and
(b) the brake shall fully release when the release control is operated


I put the shifter into Overdrive. My truck starts in second gear unless you give it at least 3/4 throttle. Everything else is as quoted, it goes down and stays down, it comes uip when you release. It can probably be argued that in first gear there is more torque to move the truck easier. But the point is, when i let off the gas, the truck stopped. And with it in gear, the brake held the truck still.

One of the questions i had was whether or not a police officer could perform this test ummm... proffessionaly, for lack of another term i can think of..... seems to me we have garages with licensed mechanics i would much rather have inspecting my brakes, or even the MTO.


Oh and i just remembered. Couple weeks ago a brake line went. I drove my truck the 4 blocks from work where it happened, to the garage. I had it in first gear the whole way, using the ebrake and shifting into neutral to stop at the only stop sign on the way there, and then to stop in the garage parking lot.

I can aggree that the cable should be tightened, i don't think it would even lock the wheels up on a gravel road. But it works for what i need it for. I dont really like the idea of making my truck drive the way other people want it to drive (to an extent of course) as it does what i want it to do and i know it well enough to predict what it's going to do.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 7:04 pm 
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Location: In YOUR rearview mirror!
to test the brake:

- automatic tranny - apply brake, put in lowest gear forward, then reverse, vehicle should not move

- standard tranny - apply brake, 1st gear and then reverse, engine noise will change to "under load" and almost go to a stall with ever so light fuel application, vehicle should not move

Either case vehicle moves, brake is not working properly

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 7:36 am 
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hwybear wrote:
to test the brake:
- automatic tranny - apply brake, put in lowest gear forward, then reverse, vehicle should not move


Looks like you've got a great defense. Your truck held stationary when you put it in gear, as required by law. The officer had no right to tell you to, "hit the gas".


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 1:22 pm 
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Just out of curiosity, if it is illegal to have a faulty parking brake, is it also illegal to NOT use a functioning one when parked??


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 7:08 pm 
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i know they make you do it on your drive test.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 10:21 am 
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May have to go to case law on this. All that's mentioned in the HTA is
Quote:
No person shall park or stand a vehicle on a highway unless he or she has taken the action that may be reasonably necessary in the circumstances to prevent the vehicle from moving or being set in motion. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 170 (9).

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 10:54 am 
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When was the last time you heard of transmission gears braking, or diff. gears letting go? LOL

Once I applied the parking brake on a car and it wouldn't release afterward (stranded). Haven't used one since ('cept for the occasional "e-drift" on snow, hehe).

Come up with a better design than cables that ALWAYS rust and seize and I'll use it religiously ;)

Manual trans.? Different story. E-brake necessary.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 11:06 am 
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ponyboyt wrote:
I did piss him off. I was polite until his backup came and started going through the stuff in back of my truck, lifting up a tarp and such, i told him to stay out of my S***.


Why does it take two squad cars for a minor traffic infraction?
I have never understood this, why they request/need backup? I think they're just bored and figure they will help in case they're needed, they are after all Unionized employee's.

This is simply a cash cow, tax collector at work here. Look at what it takes to be a police officer ... High School Education and a valid O.A.C.P. Certificate. Traffic cops, at times, can be uneducated tax collectors, AND they are put in a position daily of being judge, jury, and executioner, they are the lowest form of cop, right there with lovely Rita Meter Maid (Parking Warden)

Any ways you should fight this... this is really a pathetic ticket. The real challenge is going to the court house on a say Wednesday morning (mid week, you figure it's not too busy) at 08:30 right when they open, only to find 80 people in front of you, and only one wicket open ... Nice system this court has going ... wait and wait and wait, then file your ticket then wait for 6 more months ... HA what a joke!!

More to my point look at the following article from the star, it talks about a murder, then look at the Street/Stunt Racing laws penalties ... Where the F*** are our priorities?

http://www.thestar.com/unassigned/article/692530
His seven year sentence, the maximum allowed for second-degree murder under Canada's youth laws, consists of two years in custody and five years under community supervision.He was given credit for about 16 months based on a 1.5 to 1 credit for time served meaning he must serve another eight months in custody. The remaining five months will be served at home under some form of house arrest and curfew.

Oh right one makes money the other costs money.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 1:03 pm 
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bashing.

Anyhow, there was a 2nd cruiser because i was "driving through a neiborhood that has had a lot of complaints" at 4am and i "didn't belong here". So, since i "don't want to tell them what i am doing there" (i did) and i quote: "i guess we will just find something wrong with your truck then". I figured they woulda noticed my exhaust in the box that had fallen off the night before while offroading....

I havent seen a single person mention how i will be fighting this ticket.

Fishing Expedition

I believe its something like... R.v. Simpson S.C.C. there are some rulings there. You can't just pull someone over who looks "suspisious" with no particular suspision in mind and dig up whatever the hell you can find. I guess making a wrong turn and driving into a survey and straight out the other side is "SUSPICIOUS". Not like we were looking at anything or walking on people's lawns...


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