pulled over leaving a survey in guelph. After arguing with the officer for about 10 minutes, he mentioned something being wrong with my truck. Told me to put on my emergency brake, and i did. Told me to put it in gear, and i did, truck did not move. Told me to hit the gas, and i did and the truck moved... i let off the gas and the truck stopped. he asked "is it all the way to the floor" and i said no. He said well you are getting a ticket for a defective braking system. I will post the picture in a bit, laptop is charging.....
pulled over leaving a survey in guelph. After arguing with the officer for about 10 minutes, he mentioned something being wrong with my truck. Told me to put on my emergency brake, and i did. Told me to put it in gear, and i did, truck did not move. Told me to hit the gas, and i did and the truck moved... i let off the gas and the truck stopped. he asked "is it all the way to the floor" and i said no. He said well you are getting a ticket for a defective braking system.
I will post the picture in a bit, laptop is charging.....
kinda bad pic but no scanner til wednesday.... sorry. So far it will be the usual. Ill mail it in with not guilty and see what happens. Probably file some complaints on Tuesday though before i send it in. As i dont think its a moving violation... well i donno... what should i be looking for? ** picture edited out ** see PM oops ill fix that and repost the ticket tomorow. No takers on this one? lol...
kinda bad pic but no scanner til wednesday.... sorry.
So far it will be the usual. Ill mail it in with not guilty and see what happens. Probably file some complaints on Tuesday though before i send it in.
As i dont think its a moving violation... well i donno... what should i be looking for?
This has me a tad confused... Is it called an "Emergency Brake" or a "Parking Brake"? I hear it called both. Frankly, I would rather the e-brake NOT lock up the rear-end (under engine power). Lock up the rear in an emergency and the ars-end is comin' around quick! It definitely seemed to hold the truck just fine for parking purposes though. Sounds like you did something to piss him off and he was going to just keep looking 'till he found something to ticket you on. Used to happen to me until I learned how to NOT argue back. Be respectful. Use all the manners mom taught you as a kid. Seems to work much better ;)
This has me a tad confused...
Is it called an "Emergency Brake" or a "Parking Brake"? I hear it called both.
Frankly, I would rather the e-brake NOT lock up the rear-end (under engine power). Lock up the rear in an emergency and the ars-end is comin' around quick!
It definitely seemed to hold the truck just fine for parking purposes though.
Sounds like you did something to piss him off and he was going to just keep looking 'till he found something to ticket you on. Used to happen to me until I learned how to NOT argue back. Be respectful. Use all the manners mom taught you as a kid. Seems to work much better
It's a parking brake, or can be 'hand brake' in cars with the hand lever. 'Emergency brake' is an outdated term; they haven't been able to stop a moving vehicle for decades now. They should hold a vehicle in neutral stationary on a hill, and that's about it. Emergency braking can be done by downshifting until first gear, at which speed the parking brake has some effect. I have never driven a car where the parking brake was able to hold the car stationary under engine power. As far as I know, none of the places with mandatory inspections requires such a test, either. The section I assume you were charged under (HTA ss. 64 (7)) requires two separate braking systems, one to stop a moving car and one to hold it stationary.
It's a parking brake, or can be 'hand brake' in cars with the hand lever. 'Emergency brake' is an outdated term; they haven't been able to stop a moving vehicle for decades now. They should hold a vehicle in neutral stationary on a hill, and that's about it. Emergency braking can be done by downshifting until first gear, at which speed the parking brake has some effect.
I have never driven a car where the parking brake was able to hold the car stationary under engine power. As far as I know, none of the places with mandatory inspections requires such a test, either.
The section I assume you were charged under (HTA ss. 64 (7)) requires two separate braking systems, one to stop a moving car and one to hold it stationary.
Still a mandatory test. HTA OREG 611, schedule 1 ( 8 ) With the parking brake properly adjusted, the parking brake shall be tested by fully applying the control and then releasing it and, (a) the brake, while set in the fully applied position and not held by foot or hand force, or by hydraulic or air pressure, shall hold the vehicle stationary against the engine at a light throttle setting for a few seconds both in reverse gear and in low forward gear; and (b) the brake shall fully release when the release control is operated
Squishy wrote:
As far as I know, none of the places with mandatory inspections requires such a test, either. .
Still a mandatory test.
HTA OREG 611, schedule 1
( 8 ) With the parking brake properly adjusted, the parking brake shall be tested by fully applying the control and then releasing it and,
(a) the brake, while set in the fully applied position and not held by foot or hand force, or by hydraulic or air pressure, shall hold the vehicle stationary against the engine at a light throttle setting for a few seconds both in reverse gear and in low forward gear; and
(b) the brake shall fully release when the release control is operated
Last edited by hwybear on Wed Sep 09, 2009 7:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
Above is merely a suggestion/thought and in no way constitutes legal advice or views of my employer. www.OHTA.ca
Learn something new here every day. So there is a requirement for commercial vehicles, I'm guessing to simulate an incline and maybe a load. What would be "light throttle"? What happens if you have a torquey beast of a diesel work truck? :P
Learn something new here every day. So there is a requirement for commercial vehicles, I'm guessing to simulate an incline and maybe a load.
What would be "light throttle"? What happens if you have a torquey beast of a diesel work truck?
I did piss him off. I was polite until his backup came and started going through the stuff in back of my truck, lifting up a tarp and such, i told him to stay out of my S***. yes to 64(7). My driveway is pretty steep. It's the ONLY plae i've used the brake in the 18 months i've owned the truck. It hold's the truck in place there, and it has held the truck in place there in neutral when i had the front end on ramps, making it even steeper. I use the brake every day when i park it there so it doesn't rest on the trans brake when i put it in park. It's hard to shift into gear some times when i don't use it. I put the shifter into Overdrive. My truck starts in second gear unless you give it at least 3/4 throttle. Everything else is as quoted, it goes down and stays down, it comes uip when you release. It can probably be argued that in first gear there is more torque to move the truck easier. But the point is, when i let off the gas, the truck stopped. And with it in gear, the brake held the truck still. One of the questions i had was whether or not a police officer could perform this test ummm... proffessionaly, for lack of another term i can think of..... seems to me we have garages with licensed mechanics i would much rather have inspecting my brakes, or even the MTO. Oh and i just remembered. Couple weeks ago a brake line went. I drove my truck the 4 blocks from work where it happened, to the garage. I had it in first gear the whole way, using the ebrake and shifting into neutral to stop at the only stop sign on the way there, and then to stop in the garage parking lot. I can aggree that the cable should be tightened, i don't think it would even lock the wheels up on a gravel road. But it works for what i need it for. I dont really like the idea of making my truck drive the way other people want it to drive (to an extent of course) as it does what i want it to do and i know it well enough to predict what it's going to do.
Bookm wrote:
Sounds like you did something to piss him off and he was going to just keep looking 'till he found something to ticket you on. Used to happen to me until I learned how to NOT argue back. Be respectful. Use all the manners mom taught you as a kid. Seems to work much better
I did piss him off. I was polite until his backup came and started going through the stuff in back of my truck, lifting up a tarp and such, i told him to stay out of my S***.
Squishy wrote:
The section I assume you were charged under (HTA ss. 64 (7)) requires two separate braking systems, one to stop a moving car and one to hold it stationary.
yes to 64(7). My driveway is pretty steep. It's the ONLY plae i've used the brake in the 18 months i've owned the truck. It hold's the truck in place there, and it has held the truck in place there in neutral when i had the front end on ramps, making it even steeper. I use the brake every day when i park it there so it doesn't rest on the trans brake when i put it in park. It's hard to shift into gear some times when i don't use it.
hwybear wrote:
( With the parking brake properly adjusted, the parking brake shall be tested by fully applying the control and then releasing it and,
(a) the brake, while set in the fully applied position and not held by foot or hand force, or by hydraulic or air pressure, shall hold the vehicle stationary against the engine at a light throttle setting for a few seconds both in reverse gear and in low forward gear; and
(b) the brake shall fully release when the release control is operated
I put the shifter into Overdrive. My truck starts in second gear unless you give it at least 3/4 throttle. Everything else is as quoted, it goes down and stays down, it comes uip when you release. It can probably be argued that in first gear there is more torque to move the truck easier. But the point is, when i let off the gas, the truck stopped. And with it in gear, the brake held the truck still.
One of the questions i had was whether or not a police officer could perform this test ummm... proffessionaly, for lack of another term i can think of..... seems to me we have garages with licensed mechanics i would much rather have inspecting my brakes, or even the MTO.
Oh and i just remembered. Couple weeks ago a brake line went. I drove my truck the 4 blocks from work where it happened, to the garage. I had it in first gear the whole way, using the ebrake and shifting into neutral to stop at the only stop sign on the way there, and then to stop in the garage parking lot.
I can aggree that the cable should be tightened, i don't think it would even lock the wheels up on a gravel road. But it works for what i need it for. I dont really like the idea of making my truck drive the way other people want it to drive (to an extent of course) as it does what i want it to do and i know it well enough to predict what it's going to do.
to test the brake: - automatic tranny - apply brake, put in lowest gear forward, then reverse, vehicle should not move - standard tranny - apply brake, 1st gear and then reverse, engine noise will change to "under load" and almost go to a stall with ever so light fuel application, vehicle should not move Either case vehicle moves, brake is not working properly
to test the brake:
- automatic tranny - apply brake, put in lowest gear forward, then reverse, vehicle should not move
- standard tranny - apply brake, 1st gear and then reverse, engine noise will change to "under load" and almost go to a stall with ever so light fuel application, vehicle should not move
Either case vehicle moves, brake is not working properly
Above is merely a suggestion/thought and in no way constitutes legal advice or views of my employer. www.OHTA.ca
Looks like you've got a great defense. Your truck held stationary when you put it in gear, as required by law. The officer had no right to tell you to, "hit the gas".
hwybear wrote:
to test the brake:
- automatic tranny - apply brake, put in lowest gear forward, then reverse, vehicle should not move
Looks like you've got a great defense. Your truck held stationary when you put it in gear, as required by law. The officer had no right to tell you to, "hit the gas".
May have to go to case law on this. All that's mentioned in the HTA is
May have to go to case law on this. All that's mentioned in the HTA is
No person shall park or stand a vehicle on a highway unless he or she has taken the action that may be reasonably necessary in the circumstances to prevent the vehicle from moving or being set in motion. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 170 (9).
When was the last time you heard of transmission gears braking, or diff. gears letting go? LOL Once I applied the parking brake on a car and it wouldn't release afterward (stranded). Haven't used one since ('cept for the occasional "e-drift" on snow, hehe). Come up with a better design than cables that ALWAYS rust and seize and I'll use it religiously ;) Manual trans.? Different story. E-brake necessary.
When was the last time you heard of transmission gears braking, or diff. gears letting go? LOL
Once I applied the parking brake on a car and it wouldn't release afterward (stranded). Haven't used one since ('cept for the occasional "e-drift" on snow, hehe).
Come up with a better design than cables that ALWAYS rust and seize and I'll use it religiously
Manual trans.? Different story. E-brake necessary.
Why does it take two squad cars for a minor traffic infraction? I have never understood this, why they request/need backup? I think they're just bored and figure they will help in case they're needed, they are after all Unionized employee's. This is simply a cash cow, tax collector at work here. Look at what it takes to be a police officer ... High School Education and a valid O.A.C.P. Certificate. Traffic cops, at times, can be uneducated tax collectors, AND they are put in a position daily of being judge, jury, and executioner, they are the lowest form of cop, right there with lovely Rita Meter Maid (Parking Warden) Any ways you should fight this... this is really a pathetic ticket. The real challenge is going to the court house on a say Wednesday morning (mid week, you figure it's not too busy) at 08:30 right when they open, only to find 80 people in front of you, and only one wicket open ... Nice system this court has going ... wait and wait and wait, then file your ticket then wait for 6 more months ... HA what a joke!! More to my point look at the following article from the star, it talks about a murder, then look at the Street/Stunt Racing laws penalties ... Where the F*** are our priorities? http://www.thestar.com/unassigned/article/692530 His seven year sentence, the maximum allowed for second-degree murder under Canada's youth laws, consists of two years in custody and five years under community supervision.He was given credit for about 16 months based on a 1.5 to 1 credit for time served meaning he must serve another eight months in custody. The remaining five months will be served at home under some form of house arrest and curfew. Oh right one makes money the other costs money.
ponyboyt wrote:
I did piss him off. I was polite until his backup came and started going through the stuff in back of my truck, lifting up a tarp and such, i told him to stay out of my S***.
Why does it take two squad cars for a minor traffic infraction?
I have never understood this, why they request/need backup? I think they're just bored and figure they will help in case they're needed, they are after all Unionized employee's.
This is simply a cash cow, tax collector at work here. Look at what it takes to be a police officer ... High School Education and a valid O.A.C.P. Certificate. Traffic cops, at times, can be uneducated tax collectors, AND they are put in a position daily of being judge, jury, and executioner, they are the lowest form of cop, right there with lovely Rita Meter Maid (Parking Warden)
Any ways you should fight this... this is really a pathetic ticket. The real challenge is going to the court house on a say Wednesday morning (mid week, you figure it's not too busy) at 08:30 right when they open, only to find 80 people in front of you, and only one wicket open ... Nice system this court has going ... wait and wait and wait, then file your ticket then wait for 6 more months ... HA what a joke!!
More to my point look at the following article from the star, it talks about a murder, then look at the Street/Stunt Racing laws penalties ... Where the F*** are our priorities?
His seven year sentence, the maximum allowed for second-degree murder under Canada's youth laws, consists of two years in custody and five years under community supervision.He was given credit for about 16 months based on a 1.5 to 1 credit for time served meaning he must serve another eight months in custody. The remaining five months will be served at home under some form of house arrest and curfew.
bashing. Anyhow, there was a 2nd cruiser because i was "driving through a neiborhood that has had a lot of complaints" at 4am and i "didn't belong here". So, since i "don't want to tell them what i am doing there" (i did) and i quote: "i guess we will just find something wrong with your truck then". I figured they woulda noticed my exhaust in the box that had fallen off the night before while offroading.... I havent seen a single person mention how i will be fighting this ticket. Fishing Expedition I believe its something like... R.v. Simpson S.C.C. there are some rulings there. You can't just pull someone over who looks "suspisious" with no particular suspision in mind and dig up whatever the hell you can find. I guess making a wrong turn and driving into a survey and straight out the other side is "SUSPICIOUS". Not like we were looking at anything or walking on people's lawns...
bashing.
Anyhow, there was a 2nd cruiser because i was "driving through a neiborhood that has had a lot of complaints" at 4am and i "didn't belong here". So, since i "don't want to tell them what i am doing there" (i did) and i quote: "i guess we will just find something wrong with your truck then". I figured they woulda noticed my exhaust in the box that had fallen off the night before while offroading....
I havent seen a single person mention how i will be fighting this ticket.
Fishing Expedition
I believe its something like... R.v. Simpson S.C.C. there are some rulings there. You can't just pull someone over who looks "suspisious" with no particular suspision in mind and dig up whatever the hell you can find. I guess making a wrong turn and driving into a survey and straight out the other side is "SUSPICIOUS". Not like we were looking at anything or walking on people's lawns...
Typical daily operations....driving along or see another cruiser stopped with someone, we stop to check on the other unit. Often it is another police service and we stop as well We do not have unions Don't want to see the tax collector, don't break any laws = totally avoidable. But paying tax on gasoline, food, etc...which is not in your control and don't complain :roll: There has to be some form of a base for applicants to apply. Just b/c someone meets those criteria does not ensure they will be hired. There are many more stages to go through, then pass OPC and many services have their own Academy up and beyond OPC, that the candidate must also be successful at. Further the officer is on a one year probation with monthly evaluations. Just b/c someone has a BA or Masters does not make them a good candidate either. They might not have the people skills or the guts to go into situations where everyone else is running out! That is offensive!!! :evil: Not only to police but the other professions you grouped in. To gain more understanding, when an officer comes fresh out of the Academy they are placed with a "coach officer" with many years experience and who guides, supports, mentors the new officer into the policing profession. These officers are the "front line" officers. It generally takes 5 years before an officer can then specialize into an area of their interest (ie: traffic, K9, swat, ident, crime etc..). From those areas of interest the officer can then specialize farther (ie: traffic - enforcement, collision reconstruction, vehicle inspections etc....K9 - tracking, searching, explosives, drugs etc...) Each area requires more and more training and courses to become proficient and hone their expertise in those areas. Traffic collisions cause more deaths per year in Canada than crime. OPP stats: for 2008 16 homicides 208 deaths in traffic collisions Would you not want the area with the highest deaths getting the most attention?
Frodamob wrote:
Why does it take two squad cars for a minor traffic infraction?
I have never understood this, why they request/need backup?
Typical daily operations....driving along or see another cruiser stopped with someone, we stop to check on the other unit. Often it is another police service and we stop as well
I think they're just bored and figure they will help in case they're needed, they are after all Unionized employee's.
We do not have unions
This is simply a cash cow, tax collector at work here.
Don't want to see the tax collector, don't break any laws = totally avoidable.
But paying tax on gasoline, food, etc...which is not in your control and don't complain
Look at what it takes to be a police officer ... High School Education and a valid O.A.C.P. Certificate.
There has to be some form of a base for applicants to apply. Just b/c someone meets those criteria does not ensure they will be hired. There are many more stages to go through, then pass OPC and many services have their own Academy up and beyond OPC, that the candidate must also be successful at. Further the officer is on a one year probation with monthly evaluations.
Just b/c someone has a BA or Masters does not make them a good candidate either. They might not have the people skills or the guts to go into situations where everyone else is running out!
Traffic cops, at times, can be uneducated tax collectors, AND they are put in a position daily of being judge, jury, and executioner, they are the lowest form of cop, right there with lovely Rita Meter Maid (Parking Warden)
That is offensive!!! Not only to police but the other professions you grouped in.
To gain more understanding, when an officer comes fresh out of the Academy they are placed with a "coach officer" with many years experience and who guides, supports, mentors the new officer into the policing profession. These officers are the "front line" officers. It generally takes 5 years before an officer can then specialize into an area of their interest (ie: traffic, K9, swat, ident, crime etc..). From those areas of interest the officer can then specialize farther (ie: traffic - enforcement, collision reconstruction, vehicle inspections etc....K9 - tracking, searching, explosives, drugs etc...) Each area requires more and more training and courses to become proficient and hone their expertise in those areas.
More to my point look at the following article from the star, it talks about a murder, then look at the Street/Stunt Racing laws penalties ... Where the F*** are our priorities?
Several reasons. First, if a person is driving through a high-complaints area at 4:00 in the morning, then starts giving the cop attitude and otherwise acting suspicious, the cop would be nuts NOT to call for backup. (Act like you've got something to hide and they'll dig for it.) Policing is one of the few occupations where's a real possibility that they might not go home at the end of the shift. Second, many drivers are gigantic a-holes and blaze past parked emergency vehicles at high speed without slowing down or moving over. This puts the officer and the person he's stopped in danger. The second vehicle is often there to go after the offender. :roll: That's completely uncalled for. Some traffic enforcement is ridiculous (such as speed traps on a deserted expressway at 3:00 AM), but that said, any time you break a law you're at risk of consequences. Only in very few cases are the cops genuinely picking on someone (e.g. Dennis Mahoney-Bruer). If you are speeding, you risk getting a speeding ticket. That's life. I try to help people who get tickets because I think our speed limits are too low, enforcement is often overly-directed at speeding alone, some offences that people are ticketed for caused no harm at all (e.g. ticket for rolling a stop at 2:00 AM), and then we have s. 172. Our criminal justice system is a joke, but with respect to officers ticketing people for traffic offences, it's a red herring. Also, "uneducated tax collectors"? Think about that for a second. The idea that cops are stupid, uneducated individuals may seem like something to laugh at, but then the people who are pointing at the cops and insulting them are the ones who get caught by them. How ironic.
Frodamob wrote:
Why does it take two squad cars for a minor traffic infraction? I have never understood this, why they request/need backup?
Several reasons. First, if a person is driving through a high-complaints area at 4:00 in the morning, then starts giving the cop attitude and otherwise acting suspicious, the cop would be nuts NOT to call for backup. (Act like you've got something to hide and they'll dig for it.) Policing is one of the few occupations where's a real possibility that they might not go home at the end of the shift. Second, many drivers are gigantic a-holes and blaze past parked emergency vehicles at high speed without slowing down or moving over. This puts the officer and the person he's stopped in danger. The second vehicle is often there to go after the offender.
Frodamob wrote:
This is simply a cash cow, tax collector at work here. Look at what it takes to be a police officer ... High School Education and a valid O.A.C.P. Certificate. Traffic cops, at times, can be uneducated tax collectors, AND they are put in a position daily of being judge, jury, and executioner, they are the lowest form of cop, right there with lovely Rita Meter Maid (Parking Warden)
That's completely uncalled for. Some traffic enforcement is ridiculous (such as speed traps on a deserted expressway at 3:00 AM), but that said, any time you break a law you're at risk of consequences. Only in very few cases are the cops genuinely picking on someone (e.g. Dennis Mahoney-Bruer). If you are speeding, you risk getting a speeding ticket. That's life. I try to help people who get tickets because I think our speed limits are too low, enforcement is often overly-directed at speeding alone, some offences that people are ticketed for caused no harm at all (e.g. ticket for rolling a stop at 2:00 AM), and then we have s. 172. Our criminal justice system is a joke, but with respect to officers ticketing people for traffic offences, it's a red herring.
Also, "uneducated tax collectors"? Think about that for a second. The idea that cops are stupid, uneducated individuals may seem like something to laugh at, but then the people who are pointing at the cops and insulting them are the ones who get caught by them. How ironic.
First, if a person is driving through a high-complaints area at 4:00 in the morning, then starts giving the cop attitude and otherwise acting suspicious, the cop would be nuts NOT to call for backup. (Act like you've got something to hide and they'll dig for it.) them. How ironic. So when a cop pulls me over under HTA and asks my passengers for ID (WTF DO YOU NEED HIS ID FOR???) and i question it, Im giving him attitude? How bout the part where they stopped me was a dirt road and before he stopped me he put his spotlight on my truck and i couldnt see, AND it was foggy, and left the spotlight on for ill wager at least 5 seconds before putting his emergency lights on. He put the cherries on about the exact time i SLAMMED ON MY BREAKS for a stop sign i didnt see and stopped about 2 feet short of a car going down the highway from my left doing at least 60km/h. Wreckless endangerment? I also broke my mirror in half fumbling for it trying to move it so i could see while this D-bag was following me with a giant 10 million candle power spotlight blinding me. They always talk abnout attitude. I wasn;t doing anything suspicious. he followed me down a street. I drive down MY street every night between 12:00am and 3am.
Radar Identified wrote:
Frodamob wrote:
Why does it take two squad cars for a minor traffic infraction? I have never understood this, why they request/need backup?
First, if a person is driving through a high-complaints area at 4:00 in the morning, then starts giving the cop attitude and otherwise acting suspicious, the cop would be nuts NOT to call for backup. (Act like you've got something to hide and they'll dig for it.) them. How ironic.
So when a cop pulls me over under HTA and asks my passengers for ID (WTF DO YOU NEED HIS ID FOR???) and i question it, Im giving him attitude? How bout the part where they stopped me was a dirt road and before he stopped me he put his spotlight on my truck and i couldnt see, AND it was foggy, and left the spotlight on for ill wager at least 5 seconds before putting his emergency lights on. He put the cherries on about the exact time i SLAMMED ON MY BREAKS for a stop sign i didnt see and stopped about 2 feet short of a car going down the highway from my left doing at least 60km/h. Wreckless endangerment? I also broke my mirror in half fumbling for it trying to move it so i could see while this D-bag was following me with a giant 10 million candle power spotlight blinding me.
They always talk abnout attitude. I wasn;t doing anything suspicious. he followed me down a street. I drive down MY street every night between 12:00am and 3am.
This is an interesting statistic, however it's fairly biased. I would bet that most tickets are given out in the areas where the least deaths occur. This would be in town where the only crimes that are ever solved are traffic. Almost every weekend there is some form of vandalism on my street, however there are no police patrolling. Still seems to me that the traffic act is a tax collection for the unfortunate.
Traffic collisions cause more deaths per year in Canada than crime.
OPP stats: for 2008
16 homicides
208 deaths in traffic collisions
Would you not want the area with the highest deaths getting the most attention?
This is an interesting statistic, however it's fairly biased. I would bet that most tickets are given out in the areas where the least deaths occur. This would be in town where the only crimes that are ever solved are traffic. Almost every weekend there is some form of vandalism on my street, however there are no police patrolling. Still seems to me that the traffic act is a tax collection for the unfortunate.
This is an interesting statistic, however it's fairly biased. . How can actual deaths in the same allotted time frame be biased? Simple... The homicides occur in towns/cities. The majority of traffic fatalities I am guessing do not. There are far more police resources consumed monitoring traffic in highly populated areas where the fewest fatalities occur and the majority of homicides and all other forms of crime occur. Bias may not be the correct word, but it's still misleading.
hwybear wrote:
davec wrote:
Traffic collisions cause more deaths per year in Canada than crime.
OPP stats: for 2008
16 homicides
208 deaths in traffic collisions
Would you not want the area with the highest deaths getting the most attention?
This is an interesting statistic, however it's fairly biased. .
How can actual deaths in the same allotted time frame be biased?
Simple...
The homicides occur in towns/cities. The majority of traffic fatalities I am guessing do not. There are far more police resources consumed monitoring traffic in highly populated areas where the fewest fatalities occur and the majority of homicides and all other forms of crime occur.
Bias may not be the correct word, but it's still misleading.
And how did you respond to the officer asking your passenger for ID? Was it closer to: "Why?" or was it more like: "Why the f*** do you need his ID, you fat pig?" Also, from your post under speeding 30-49 km/h over the limit: Well... good luck in court.
ponyboyt wrote:
So when a cop pulls me over under HTA and asks my passengers for ID (WTF DO YOU NEED HIS ID FOR???) and i question it, Im giving him attitude?
And how did you respond to the officer asking your passenger for ID? Was it closer to: "Why?" or was it more like: "Why the f*** do you need his ID, you fat pig?"
Also, from your post under speeding 30-49 km/h over the limit:
Fatalities by road type ... as of 2003 http://www.ccmta.ca/english/pdf/collisi ... s_03_e.pdf Urban 936 ( defined by metropolitan or speeds below 60km/h at collision site) Rural 1539 ( primary or secondary hwy speeds exceeding 60km/h at collision site) A more relevant statistic is the number of injuries, Urban 110,511, Rural 41,639 One could argue that since it costs the taxpayer more for injuries than fatalities that the extra resources required in rural areas to police traffic are warranted, however I doubt that speed is an issue in rural collisions. I would guess it's driver training, experience etc. Regardless if your argument is that more fatalities on the road than homicides justifies all the policing of highways, then the majority of the police resources should be concentrated on rural roads as defined above.
Urban 936 ( defined by metropolitan or speeds below 60km/h at collision site)
Rural 1539 ( primary or secondary hwy speeds exceeding 60km/h at collision site)
A more relevant statistic is the number of injuries,
Urban 110,511, Rural 41,639
One could argue that since it costs the taxpayer more for injuries than fatalities that the extra resources required in rural areas to police traffic are warranted, however I doubt that speed is an issue in rural collisions. I would guess it's driver training, experience etc.
Regardless if your argument is that more fatalities on the road than homicides justifies all the policing of highways, then the majority of the police resources should be concentrated on rural roads as defined above.
Well... good luck in court. Thus far i've paid 2 of those tickets. 2 were thrown out without a court date ever being set. I have 4 court dates this year and 2 next year. Don't know when this one is yet. It's not like i pull attitude whenever i get stopped. I've been stopped more than a few times where i had a decent enough cop who didn't give me a hard time. But when they stop me and totaly out of the blue start hammering off the wall questions seemingly accusing suspision and talk to me like im an inmate in some facility I will get defensive. Especialy after the time they pulled my girlfriend out of the car to "talk to her" and told er how much of a piece of s**t i was. I havent been in trouble with the police since 1998. Seems not everyone will forget i guess, and i expect to be treated differently. But that doesn't mean i have no rights. The ammount of BS that goes on is retarded. I see it more than the average Joe because of the hours i keep. (I assume thats why). If you read my Niagara story before i pulled it down you would understand my "defensiveness".
Radar Identified wrote:
And how did you respond to the officer asking your passenger for ID? Was it closer to: "Why?" or was it more like: "Why the f*** do you need his ID, you fat pig?"
My exact words were "why do they need ID?" With more of a shocked tone than anything.
Also, from your post under speeding 30-49 km/h over the limit:
ponyboyt wrote:
This is my 12th ticket in 3 months.
Well... good luck in court.
Thus far i've paid 2 of those tickets. 2 were thrown out without a court date ever being set. I have 4 court dates this year and 2 next year. Don't know when this one is yet.
It's not like i pull attitude whenever i get stopped. I've been stopped more than a few times where i had a decent enough cop who didn't give me a hard time. But when they stop me and totaly out of the blue start hammering off the wall questions seemingly accusing suspision and talk to me like im an inmate in some facility I will get defensive. Especialy after the time they pulled my girlfriend out of the car to "talk to her" and told er how much of a piece of s**t i was. I havent been in trouble with the police since 1998. Seems not everyone will forget i guess, and i expect to be treated differently. But that doesn't mean i have no rights. The ammount of BS that goes on is retarded. I see it more than the average Joe because of the hours i keep. (I assume thats why). If you read my Niagara story before i pulled it down you would understand my "defensiveness".
Couple story's: I was out looking for diapers one night at about 12:30 AM. I had slowed down to glance at a shoppers drug mart to see if they were open. At the time i was driving a 1994 red 2 door Grand Prix GTP. It was tinted pretty dark and had fairly loud pipes and a very loud stereo and modified engine. I was being quiet as it was pretty late on a week night. At the time i slowed down there happened to be a cop who looked like he was doing standard patrol checking on the plaza where the Shoppers was. I think he saw me slow down and kinda stick my head out the window to see if the store was open so he stopped me. Long story short, he offered a couple hints as to where i might find diapers this late and gave me a 48 hour warning to fix my headlight. I fixed it the next day and met him on his next shift. He didn't stop me and scream and hollar things like YOU WERE GONA ROB THAT STORE. Maybe that's an exageration.... but to get the point.... Month or so after that stop, i was stopped in my home town on a main street, again at night. The cop told me i couldn't stop where i was and to move my car over a few feet. I complained that there was plowed snow in the way (my car was lowered) and he threatened a ticket for blocking traffic or something... so i drove into the snow bank and ended up turning one of my mufflers loose. I complained about this and he said if the car was in that good shape it would be easy to fix /boggle. No ticket, just 20 minutes of my time wasted. The next night i got stopped for "pipes are too loud and your windows are too dark" i swear every police car in town was there. (population 9000). Stopped about 200 metres up the road from the ngiht before. I was on my way to Tim Hortons for a hot chocolate. I do that when its late and im not tired enoughto sleep. Summing it up, no ticket, bunch of warnings (threats) about an hour and 10 minutes of my time wasted. I don't think i ever got a ticket in that car. I got rid of it cause i was sick of the hassle and bought my STS. Thats when the tickets started rolling in... So much for thinking a grampa car would be safer....
Couple story's:
I was out looking for diapers one night at about 12:30 AM. I had slowed down to glance at a shoppers drug mart to see if they were open. At the time i was driving a 1994 red 2 door Grand Prix GTP. It was tinted pretty dark and had fairly loud pipes and a very loud stereo and modified engine. I was being quiet as it was pretty late on a week night. At the time i slowed down there happened to be a cop who looked like he was doing standard patrol checking on the plaza where the Shoppers was. I think he saw me slow down and kinda stick my head out the window to see if the store was open so he stopped me. Long story short, he offered a couple hints as to where i might find diapers this late and gave me a 48 hour warning to fix my headlight. I fixed it the next day and met him on his next shift. He didn't stop me and scream and hollar things like YOU WERE GONA ROB THAT STORE. Maybe that's an exageration.... but to get the point....
Month or so after that stop, i was stopped in my home town on a main street, again at night. The cop told me i couldn't stop where i was and to move my car over a few feet. I complained that there was plowed snow in the way (my car was lowered) and he threatened a ticket for blocking traffic or something... so i drove into the snow bank and ended up turning one of my mufflers loose. I complained about this and he said if the car was in that good shape it would be easy to fix /boggle. No ticket, just 20 minutes of my time wasted.
The next night i got stopped for "pipes are too loud and your windows are too dark" i swear every police car in town was there. (population 9000). Stopped about 200 metres up the road from the ngiht before. I was on my way to Tim Hortons for a hot chocolate. I do that when its late and im not tired enoughto sleep. Summing it up, no ticket, bunch of warnings (threats) about an hour and 10 minutes of my time wasted.
I don't think i ever got a ticket in that car. I got rid of it cause i was sick of the hassle and bought my STS. Thats when the tickets started rolling in... So much for thinking a grampa car would be safer....
Fatalities by road type ... as of 2003 http://www.ccmta.ca/english/pdf/collisi ... s_03_e.pdf Urban 936 ( defined by metropolitan or speeds below 60km/h at collision site) Rural 1539 ( primary or secondary hwy speeds exceeding 60km/h at collision site) A more relevant statistic is the number of injuries, Urban 110,511, Rural 41,639 One could argue that since it costs the taxpayer more for injuries than fatalities that the extra resources required in rural areas to police traffic are warranted, however I doubt that speed is an issue in rural collisions. I would guess it's driver training, experience etc. Regardless if your argument is that more fatalities on the road than homicides justifies all the policing of highways, then the majority of the police resources should be concentrated on rural roads as defined above. Damn dave, you come armed with numbers.... :D
Urban 936 ( defined by metropolitan or speeds below 60km/h at collision site)
Rural 1539 ( primary or secondary hwy speeds exceeding 60km/h at collision site)
A more relevant statistic is the number of injuries,
Urban 110,511, Rural 41,639
One could argue that since it costs the taxpayer more for injuries than fatalities that the extra resources required in rural areas to police traffic are warranted, however I doubt that speed is an issue in rural collisions. I would guess it's driver training, experience etc.
Regardless if your argument is that more fatalities on the road than homicides justifies all the policing of highways, then the majority of the police resources should be concentrated on rural roads as defined above.
Damn dave, you come armed with numbers....
http://www.OHTA.ca OR http://www.OntarioTrafficAct.com
Given the number of times you've been stopped/ticketed lately, you might want to consider hiring a lawyer. The lawyer could do a bit of digging and see if your vehicle/plate has been flagged for some reason. If you haven't been in trouble since 1998 and now you're getting pulled over basically every week, something's going on. Type of car... maybe. Did your STS come with new plates, or did you just transfer the plates to the new vehicle?
ponyboyt wrote:
I havent been in trouble with the police since 1998. Seems not everyone will forget i guess, and i expect to be treated differently. But that doesn't mean i have no rights.
Given the number of times you've been stopped/ticketed lately, you might want to consider hiring a lawyer. The lawyer could do a bit of digging and see if your vehicle/plate has been flagged for some reason. If you haven't been in trouble since 1998 and now you're getting pulled over basically every week, something's going on. Type of car... maybe. Did your STS come with new plates, or did you just transfer the plates to the new vehicle?
not new plates. I started to blame the car. Its flashy. Its tinted. I figure Niagara was looking for drugs when they got me. It's weird though that when they stop me they always ask me about stuff that has nothing to do with what i was in trouble for in the past. Makes me think they don't see my record. Like maybe its bumped off the computer. When i was in the cruiser in Niagara he ran my name and i didnt see anything, not that i know the software and what to look for.... I have thought about a lawyer looking into it for me. But what would that do other than tell me why they stop me?
not new plates.
I started to blame the car. Its flashy. Its tinted. I figure Niagara was looking for drugs when they got me. It's weird though that when they stop me they always ask me about stuff that has nothing to do with what i was in trouble for in the past. Makes me think they don't see my record. Like maybe its bumped off the computer. When i was in the cruiser in Niagara he ran my name and i didnt see anything, not that i know the software and what to look for....
I have thought about a lawyer looking into it for me. But what would that do other than tell me why they stop me?
Am really confused about this one, this morning i got a reduced speeding ticket (80km speed in 60 zone), and in the ticket the cop wrote 10km over the speeding limit.. and it has the 'R' code in it.. and the cop said i need to pay this and it doesn't have any points on it..
im fine with paying the ticket which is only 40 dollars but my biggest concern, will it show in my record ? or only tickets…
I got a ticket for driving with handheld device in Oct 2015 and I had requested for a trial. Yesterday I received the notice of trial (notice is dated 26-Jan-2017, court of trial is Newmarket, ON) and trial date is Mar 8, 2017. Today, I have sent in a registered request for disclosure (i.e on 29-Jan-2017).
Need some help here for the 1st time speeding ticket?
Sunday morning 12:10am when I was going home from work I was doing bit speeding on Gardiner. I was going with about 130km/h. I know its fast. I always take the same way and I know where the cops hide. They always hide entrance of the highways. If I will do speeding I always look my back and did look this time too. I took gardiner…
I just have a question in regards to the summons Under Part 1 I received for an rear end accident:
I was driving on the 2 lane road, and the car in front of me suddenly stopped, I had seen the car, and so I started to brake, however I heard noise from the back and looked int o the rear view mirror and saw a huge "truck" so I decided to go right, took the feet out of brakes but couldnt…
I have searched and I know the general rule is no, barring criminal charges or tresspassing. So let me use 2 specific issues I have.
1) I have some business in some area malls after hours. Once I have pulled into the mall lot on the way to the closest door I rarely stop at stop signs unless there is a car or person nearby. (i do not carelessly speed, i do show caution, just do not fully stop) Can…
In June at 401 London and Wellington I got hit twice, speeding which I didn't realize I was doing and cell phone. The Officer made me open my purse and show him my phone. I was going to meet a Rep of my Company in Kitchener, he called I answered. WRONG! The Officer wasn't even nice. My record was clean and he slapped me twice. I sat in the car and sobbed for 20 minutes as I was scared out of…
I wanted to "reply" elsewhere...but the more appropriate areas were "locked" to replies....so, here are a couple of questions...from a newbie to this site:
1. Who ARE you? (I'm a little edgy about conversing on a forum whose ownership is not stated anywhere on an "About" page") No offense intended whatsoever. Just like to know who I'm talking with/in front of.......your honor!
You are coming off of a highway exit and there are 3 lanes: right hand lane for right hand turn; middle lane for left AND right turn (but no straight thru since it is only a three-way intersection); and left lane for left hand turn. You are first in the middle lane, signalling to make a right.
CAN YOU make a right hand turn from the middle lane on a red if the traffic is clear?
Hey everyone first off I'd like to say great website, I have been reading and it is very useful
I'm posting today as I'd like to get some feedback on my situation and have a couple of questions. Please excuse the vagueness in some areas - I don't want my case to be identifiable given the small town.
So I was driving up north and was pulled over by an OPP SUV for doing 31 over. Cop drove past me,…
Hello! I'm under 16 currently and really want to drive. I know that section 37(1) says you have to be 16, but I've read that the HTA does not apply when you are in private property, so does that mean I can drive in a parking lot if I wanted to?
I was heading northbound on my bike downtown on friday. After the east/westbound lights went red and after a long pause I decided to get a head start and proceed before the light changed to green. About a block north of me an officer stepped out of an unmarked cruiser and pulled me over and gave me a $180 ticket. Now I see on this site that I should have been given points for it..but…
Got a ticket Saturday for insecure load. The officer was a real jerk and unfair. I had nothing hanging out the sides and the load wasn't that high. Just taking some junk to the dump. I was doing 40 on Ashley St in Foxboro, 4 ways on taking my time and nothing was going to fall out. I'm thinking about fighting it. Anyone experienced this before?
So I got convicted of a dui.. I have been riding my bike in the snow and taking the bus. I am a driving enthusiast and I will be going to the race track all summer but I NEED to drive something right now!
I have done lots of research and even an electric assisted bike that a 16 year old can drive legally on the road is not an option to someone with a dui suspension.
Hey this is my first ticket so as much information that people can provide will be appreciated. I was making the drive home going around 90kph(in a 80) behind what I knew was an undercover police car. The cop abruptly pulled to the side and pulled back in behind me to pull me over. Now I reduced my speed to below 80 when the cop pulled to the side but he claimed he had me clocked at 109kph and…
So I was heading home to today and I was in the left lane of the off ramp, some lady cut across her lane of traffic and across the off ramp median and hit the back side of my car! After a few meters of bumping (I was dazed and confused) I stopped the car.
I call 911 and was told to move the car to the shoulder.
Cop comes, interviews both of us, and lets the lady go! The cop proceeds to give…
An undercover cop, well not sure if he was even a cop to be honest, maybe a constable pulled me over after I passed him shortly after a construction zone. He asked me if I was in a rush and said that he was going 105 and I was going 120. It seems mostly from our conversation that he was pissed off that I passed him, because he never told me that I was speeding. None the less the ticket says…
I got this ticket last year in toronto and received court date recently.
Basically I parket on a street where there are marked spots for car parking but they were all faded with only the white edges showing. I assumed I was in the correct spot when I got out. I never noticed the fire hydrant in the bushes.
When I returned I saw the ticket and then noticed the fire hydrant and when I to the…
I would like to know if anybody could tell me what "V" stands for on the Code section of the Form 4. I think that it will be useful to understand what information is on this form in order to make a decision on what option we should chose.
I recently received a ticket for red light fail to stop under section 144 (18) of the Highway Traffic Act at the intersection of Dupont St. and Dufferin St. in Toronto with a set fine of $150 and total payable of $190. I think I entered the intersection on a yellow, however that is not the way the officer saw it. During the traffic stop the officer was polite bordering on friendly…
Got my first ticket last Thursday and I have a couple of questions. I was driving westbound on Moore St. (west of Bayview) and made a left onto a residential street at a 4-way stop sign. It was my first time driving through that area - was driving my girlfriend to a wisdom tooth surgery.
The police were set up to catch people, as that intersection had a no left turn sign from 7-9 am (buses…
Not only to police but the other professions you grouped in.
