pulled over leaving a survey in guelph. After arguing with the officer for about 10 minutes, he mentioned something being wrong with my truck. Told me to put on my emergency brake, and i did. Told me to put it in gear, and i did, truck did not move. Told me to hit the gas, and i did and the truck moved... i let off the gas and the truck stopped. he asked "is it all the way to the floor" and i said no. He said well you are getting a ticket for a defective braking system. I will post the picture in a bit, laptop is charging.....
pulled over leaving a survey in guelph. After arguing with the officer for about 10 minutes, he mentioned something being wrong with my truck. Told me to put on my emergency brake, and i did. Told me to put it in gear, and i did, truck did not move. Told me to hit the gas, and i did and the truck moved... i let off the gas and the truck stopped. he asked "is it all the way to the floor" and i said no. He said well you are getting a ticket for a defective braking system.
I will post the picture in a bit, laptop is charging.....
kinda bad pic but no scanner til wednesday.... sorry. So far it will be the usual. Ill mail it in with not guilty and see what happens. Probably file some complaints on Tuesday though before i send it in. As i dont think its a moving violation... well i donno... what should i be looking for? ** picture edited out ** see PM oops ill fix that and repost the ticket tomorow. No takers on this one? lol...
kinda bad pic but no scanner til wednesday.... sorry.
So far it will be the usual. Ill mail it in with not guilty and see what happens. Probably file some complaints on Tuesday though before i send it in.
As i dont think its a moving violation... well i donno... what should i be looking for?
This has me a tad confused... Is it called an "Emergency Brake" or a "Parking Brake"? I hear it called both. Frankly, I would rather the e-brake NOT lock up the rear-end (under engine power). Lock up the rear in an emergency and the ars-end is comin' around quick! It definitely seemed to hold the truck just fine for parking purposes though. Sounds like you did something to piss him off and he was going to just keep looking 'till he found something to ticket you on. Used to happen to me until I learned how to NOT argue back. Be respectful. Use all the manners mom taught you as a kid. Seems to work much better ;)
This has me a tad confused...
Is it called an "Emergency Brake" or a "Parking Brake"? I hear it called both.
Frankly, I would rather the e-brake NOT lock up the rear-end (under engine power). Lock up the rear in an emergency and the ars-end is comin' around quick!
It definitely seemed to hold the truck just fine for parking purposes though.
Sounds like you did something to piss him off and he was going to just keep looking 'till he found something to ticket you on. Used to happen to me until I learned how to NOT argue back. Be respectful. Use all the manners mom taught you as a kid. Seems to work much better
It's a parking brake, or can be 'hand brake' in cars with the hand lever. 'Emergency brake' is an outdated term; they haven't been able to stop a moving vehicle for decades now. They should hold a vehicle in neutral stationary on a hill, and that's about it. Emergency braking can be done by downshifting until first gear, at which speed the parking brake has some effect. I have never driven a car where the parking brake was able to hold the car stationary under engine power. As far as I know, none of the places with mandatory inspections requires such a test, either. The section I assume you were charged under (HTA ss. 64 (7)) requires two separate braking systems, one to stop a moving car and one to hold it stationary.
It's a parking brake, or can be 'hand brake' in cars with the hand lever. 'Emergency brake' is an outdated term; they haven't been able to stop a moving vehicle for decades now. They should hold a vehicle in neutral stationary on a hill, and that's about it. Emergency braking can be done by downshifting until first gear, at which speed the parking brake has some effect.
I have never driven a car where the parking brake was able to hold the car stationary under engine power. As far as I know, none of the places with mandatory inspections requires such a test, either.
The section I assume you were charged under (HTA ss. 64 (7)) requires two separate braking systems, one to stop a moving car and one to hold it stationary.
Still a mandatory test. HTA OREG 611, schedule 1 ( 8 ) With the parking brake properly adjusted, the parking brake shall be tested by fully applying the control and then releasing it and, (a) the brake, while set in the fully applied position and not held by foot or hand force, or by hydraulic or air pressure, shall hold the vehicle stationary against the engine at a light throttle setting for a few seconds both in reverse gear and in low forward gear; and (b) the brake shall fully release when the release control is operated
Squishy wrote:
As far as I know, none of the places with mandatory inspections requires such a test, either. .
Still a mandatory test.
HTA OREG 611, schedule 1
( 8 ) With the parking brake properly adjusted, the parking brake shall be tested by fully applying the control and then releasing it and,
(a) the brake, while set in the fully applied position and not held by foot or hand force, or by hydraulic or air pressure, shall hold the vehicle stationary against the engine at a light throttle setting for a few seconds both in reverse gear and in low forward gear; and
(b) the brake shall fully release when the release control is operated
Last edited by hwybear on Wed Sep 09, 2009 7:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
Above is merely a suggestion/thought and in no way constitutes legal advice or views of my employer. www.OHTA.ca
Learn something new here every day. So there is a requirement for commercial vehicles, I'm guessing to simulate an incline and maybe a load. What would be "light throttle"? What happens if you have a torquey beast of a diesel work truck? :P
Learn something new here every day. So there is a requirement for commercial vehicles, I'm guessing to simulate an incline and maybe a load.
What would be "light throttle"? What happens if you have a torquey beast of a diesel work truck?
I did piss him off. I was polite until his backup came and started going through the stuff in back of my truck, lifting up a tarp and such, i told him to stay out of my S***. yes to 64(7). My driveway is pretty steep. It's the ONLY plae i've used the brake in the 18 months i've owned the truck. It hold's the truck in place there, and it has held the truck in place there in neutral when i had the front end on ramps, making it even steeper. I use the brake every day when i park it there so it doesn't rest on the trans brake when i put it in park. It's hard to shift into gear some times when i don't use it. I put the shifter into Overdrive. My truck starts in second gear unless you give it at least 3/4 throttle. Everything else is as quoted, it goes down and stays down, it comes uip when you release. It can probably be argued that in first gear there is more torque to move the truck easier. But the point is, when i let off the gas, the truck stopped. And with it in gear, the brake held the truck still. One of the questions i had was whether or not a police officer could perform this test ummm... proffessionaly, for lack of another term i can think of..... seems to me we have garages with licensed mechanics i would much rather have inspecting my brakes, or even the MTO. Oh and i just remembered. Couple weeks ago a brake line went. I drove my truck the 4 blocks from work where it happened, to the garage. I had it in first gear the whole way, using the ebrake and shifting into neutral to stop at the only stop sign on the way there, and then to stop in the garage parking lot. I can aggree that the cable should be tightened, i don't think it would even lock the wheels up on a gravel road. But it works for what i need it for. I dont really like the idea of making my truck drive the way other people want it to drive (to an extent of course) as it does what i want it to do and i know it well enough to predict what it's going to do.
Bookm wrote:
Sounds like you did something to piss him off and he was going to just keep looking 'till he found something to ticket you on. Used to happen to me until I learned how to NOT argue back. Be respectful. Use all the manners mom taught you as a kid. Seems to work much better
I did piss him off. I was polite until his backup came and started going through the stuff in back of my truck, lifting up a tarp and such, i told him to stay out of my S***.
Squishy wrote:
The section I assume you were charged under (HTA ss. 64 (7)) requires two separate braking systems, one to stop a moving car and one to hold it stationary.
yes to 64(7). My driveway is pretty steep. It's the ONLY plae i've used the brake in the 18 months i've owned the truck. It hold's the truck in place there, and it has held the truck in place there in neutral when i had the front end on ramps, making it even steeper. I use the brake every day when i park it there so it doesn't rest on the trans brake when i put it in park. It's hard to shift into gear some times when i don't use it.
hwybear wrote:
( With the parking brake properly adjusted, the parking brake shall be tested by fully applying the control and then releasing it and,
(a) the brake, while set in the fully applied position and not held by foot or hand force, or by hydraulic or air pressure, shall hold the vehicle stationary against the engine at a light throttle setting for a few seconds both in reverse gear and in low forward gear; and
(b) the brake shall fully release when the release control is operated
I put the shifter into Overdrive. My truck starts in second gear unless you give it at least 3/4 throttle. Everything else is as quoted, it goes down and stays down, it comes uip when you release. It can probably be argued that in first gear there is more torque to move the truck easier. But the point is, when i let off the gas, the truck stopped. And with it in gear, the brake held the truck still.
One of the questions i had was whether or not a police officer could perform this test ummm... proffessionaly, for lack of another term i can think of..... seems to me we have garages with licensed mechanics i would much rather have inspecting my brakes, or even the MTO.
Oh and i just remembered. Couple weeks ago a brake line went. I drove my truck the 4 blocks from work where it happened, to the garage. I had it in first gear the whole way, using the ebrake and shifting into neutral to stop at the only stop sign on the way there, and then to stop in the garage parking lot.
I can aggree that the cable should be tightened, i don't think it would even lock the wheels up on a gravel road. But it works for what i need it for. I dont really like the idea of making my truck drive the way other people want it to drive (to an extent of course) as it does what i want it to do and i know it well enough to predict what it's going to do.
to test the brake: - automatic tranny - apply brake, put in lowest gear forward, then reverse, vehicle should not move - standard tranny - apply brake, 1st gear and then reverse, engine noise will change to "under load" and almost go to a stall with ever so light fuel application, vehicle should not move Either case vehicle moves, brake is not working properly
to test the brake:
- automatic tranny - apply brake, put in lowest gear forward, then reverse, vehicle should not move
- standard tranny - apply brake, 1st gear and then reverse, engine noise will change to "under load" and almost go to a stall with ever so light fuel application, vehicle should not move
Either case vehicle moves, brake is not working properly
Above is merely a suggestion/thought and in no way constitutes legal advice or views of my employer. www.OHTA.ca
Looks like you've got a great defense. Your truck held stationary when you put it in gear, as required by law. The officer had no right to tell you to, "hit the gas".
hwybear wrote:
to test the brake:
- automatic tranny - apply brake, put in lowest gear forward, then reverse, vehicle should not move
Looks like you've got a great defense. Your truck held stationary when you put it in gear, as required by law. The officer had no right to tell you to, "hit the gas".
May have to go to case law on this. All that's mentioned in the HTA is
May have to go to case law on this. All that's mentioned in the HTA is
No person shall park or stand a vehicle on a highway unless he or she has taken the action that may be reasonably necessary in the circumstances to prevent the vehicle from moving or being set in motion. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 170 (9).
When was the last time you heard of transmission gears braking, or diff. gears letting go? LOL Once I applied the parking brake on a car and it wouldn't release afterward (stranded). Haven't used one since ('cept for the occasional "e-drift" on snow, hehe). Come up with a better design than cables that ALWAYS rust and seize and I'll use it religiously ;) Manual trans.? Different story. E-brake necessary.
When was the last time you heard of transmission gears braking, or diff. gears letting go? LOL
Once I applied the parking brake on a car and it wouldn't release afterward (stranded). Haven't used one since ('cept for the occasional "e-drift" on snow, hehe).
Come up with a better design than cables that ALWAYS rust and seize and I'll use it religiously
Manual trans.? Different story. E-brake necessary.
Why does it take two squad cars for a minor traffic infraction? I have never understood this, why they request/need backup? I think they're just bored and figure they will help in case they're needed, they are after all Unionized employee's. This is simply a cash cow, tax collector at work here. Look at what it takes to be a police officer ... High School Education and a valid O.A.C.P. Certificate. Traffic cops, at times, can be uneducated tax collectors, AND they are put in a position daily of being judge, jury, and executioner, they are the lowest form of cop, right there with lovely Rita Meter Maid (Parking Warden) Any ways you should fight this... this is really a pathetic ticket. The real challenge is going to the court house on a say Wednesday morning (mid week, you figure it's not too busy) at 08:30 right when they open, only to find 80 people in front of you, and only one wicket open ... Nice system this court has going ... wait and wait and wait, then file your ticket then wait for 6 more months ... HA what a joke!! More to my point look at the following article from the star, it talks about a murder, then look at the Street/Stunt Racing laws penalties ... Where the F*** are our priorities? http://www.thestar.com/unassigned/article/692530 His seven year sentence, the maximum allowed for second-degree murder under Canada's youth laws, consists of two years in custody and five years under community supervision.He was given credit for about 16 months based on a 1.5 to 1 credit for time served meaning he must serve another eight months in custody. The remaining five months will be served at home under some form of house arrest and curfew. Oh right one makes money the other costs money.
ponyboyt wrote:
I did piss him off. I was polite until his backup came and started going through the stuff in back of my truck, lifting up a tarp and such, i told him to stay out of my S***.
Why does it take two squad cars for a minor traffic infraction?
I have never understood this, why they request/need backup? I think they're just bored and figure they will help in case they're needed, they are after all Unionized employee's.
This is simply a cash cow, tax collector at work here. Look at what it takes to be a police officer ... High School Education and a valid O.A.C.P. Certificate. Traffic cops, at times, can be uneducated tax collectors, AND they are put in a position daily of being judge, jury, and executioner, they are the lowest form of cop, right there with lovely Rita Meter Maid (Parking Warden)
Any ways you should fight this... this is really a pathetic ticket. The real challenge is going to the court house on a say Wednesday morning (mid week, you figure it's not too busy) at 08:30 right when they open, only to find 80 people in front of you, and only one wicket open ... Nice system this court has going ... wait and wait and wait, then file your ticket then wait for 6 more months ... HA what a joke!!
More to my point look at the following article from the star, it talks about a murder, then look at the Street/Stunt Racing laws penalties ... Where the F*** are our priorities?
His seven year sentence, the maximum allowed for second-degree murder under Canada's youth laws, consists of two years in custody and five years under community supervision.He was given credit for about 16 months based on a 1.5 to 1 credit for time served meaning he must serve another eight months in custody. The remaining five months will be served at home under some form of house arrest and curfew.
bashing. Anyhow, there was a 2nd cruiser because i was "driving through a neiborhood that has had a lot of complaints" at 4am and i "didn't belong here". So, since i "don't want to tell them what i am doing there" (i did) and i quote: "i guess we will just find something wrong with your truck then". I figured they woulda noticed my exhaust in the box that had fallen off the night before while offroading.... I havent seen a single person mention how i will be fighting this ticket. Fishing Expedition I believe its something like... R.v. Simpson S.C.C. there are some rulings there. You can't just pull someone over who looks "suspisious" with no particular suspision in mind and dig up whatever the hell you can find. I guess making a wrong turn and driving into a survey and straight out the other side is "SUSPICIOUS". Not like we were looking at anything or walking on people's lawns...
bashing.
Anyhow, there was a 2nd cruiser because i was "driving through a neiborhood that has had a lot of complaints" at 4am and i "didn't belong here". So, since i "don't want to tell them what i am doing there" (i did) and i quote: "i guess we will just find something wrong with your truck then". I figured they woulda noticed my exhaust in the box that had fallen off the night before while offroading....
I havent seen a single person mention how i will be fighting this ticket.
Fishing Expedition
I believe its something like... R.v. Simpson S.C.C. there are some rulings there. You can't just pull someone over who looks "suspisious" with no particular suspision in mind and dig up whatever the hell you can find. I guess making a wrong turn and driving into a survey and straight out the other side is "SUSPICIOUS". Not like we were looking at anything or walking on people's lawns...
Typical daily operations....driving along or see another cruiser stopped with someone, we stop to check on the other unit. Often it is another police service and we stop as well We do not have unions Don't want to see the tax collector, don't break any laws = totally avoidable. But paying tax on gasoline, food, etc...which is not in your control and don't complain :roll: There has to be some form of a base for applicants to apply. Just b/c someone meets those criteria does not ensure they will be hired. There are many more stages to go through, then pass OPC and many services have their own Academy up and beyond OPC, that the candidate must also be successful at. Further the officer is on a one year probation with monthly evaluations. Just b/c someone has a BA or Masters does not make them a good candidate either. They might not have the people skills or the guts to go into situations where everyone else is running out! That is offensive!!! :evil: Not only to police but the other professions you grouped in. To gain more understanding, when an officer comes fresh out of the Academy they are placed with a "coach officer" with many years experience and who guides, supports, mentors the new officer into the policing profession. These officers are the "front line" officers. It generally takes 5 years before an officer can then specialize into an area of their interest (ie: traffic, K9, swat, ident, crime etc..). From those areas of interest the officer can then specialize farther (ie: traffic - enforcement, collision reconstruction, vehicle inspections etc....K9 - tracking, searching, explosives, drugs etc...) Each area requires more and more training and courses to become proficient and hone their expertise in those areas. Traffic collisions cause more deaths per year in Canada than crime. OPP stats: for 2008 16 homicides 208 deaths in traffic collisions Would you not want the area with the highest deaths getting the most attention?
Frodamob wrote:
Why does it take two squad cars for a minor traffic infraction?
I have never understood this, why they request/need backup?
Typical daily operations....driving along or see another cruiser stopped with someone, we stop to check on the other unit. Often it is another police service and we stop as well
I think they're just bored and figure they will help in case they're needed, they are after all Unionized employee's.
We do not have unions
This is simply a cash cow, tax collector at work here.
Don't want to see the tax collector, don't break any laws = totally avoidable.
But paying tax on gasoline, food, etc...which is not in your control and don't complain
Look at what it takes to be a police officer ... High School Education and a valid O.A.C.P. Certificate.
There has to be some form of a base for applicants to apply. Just b/c someone meets those criteria does not ensure they will be hired. There are many more stages to go through, then pass OPC and many services have their own Academy up and beyond OPC, that the candidate must also be successful at. Further the officer is on a one year probation with monthly evaluations.
Just b/c someone has a BA or Masters does not make them a good candidate either. They might not have the people skills or the guts to go into situations where everyone else is running out!
Traffic cops, at times, can be uneducated tax collectors, AND they are put in a position daily of being judge, jury, and executioner, they are the lowest form of cop, right there with lovely Rita Meter Maid (Parking Warden)
That is offensive!!! Not only to police but the other professions you grouped in.
To gain more understanding, when an officer comes fresh out of the Academy they are placed with a "coach officer" with many years experience and who guides, supports, mentors the new officer into the policing profession. These officers are the "front line" officers. It generally takes 5 years before an officer can then specialize into an area of their interest (ie: traffic, K9, swat, ident, crime etc..). From those areas of interest the officer can then specialize farther (ie: traffic - enforcement, collision reconstruction, vehicle inspections etc....K9 - tracking, searching, explosives, drugs etc...) Each area requires more and more training and courses to become proficient and hone their expertise in those areas.
More to my point look at the following article from the star, it talks about a murder, then look at the Street/Stunt Racing laws penalties ... Where the F*** are our priorities?
Several reasons. First, if a person is driving through a high-complaints area at 4:00 in the morning, then starts giving the cop attitude and otherwise acting suspicious, the cop would be nuts NOT to call for backup. (Act like you've got something to hide and they'll dig for it.) Policing is one of the few occupations where's a real possibility that they might not go home at the end of the shift. Second, many drivers are gigantic a-holes and blaze past parked emergency vehicles at high speed without slowing down or moving over. This puts the officer and the person he's stopped in danger. The second vehicle is often there to go after the offender. :roll: That's completely uncalled for. Some traffic enforcement is ridiculous (such as speed traps on a deserted expressway at 3:00 AM), but that said, any time you break a law you're at risk of consequences. Only in very few cases are the cops genuinely picking on someone (e.g. Dennis Mahoney-Bruer). If you are speeding, you risk getting a speeding ticket. That's life. I try to help people who get tickets because I think our speed limits are too low, enforcement is often overly-directed at speeding alone, some offences that people are ticketed for caused no harm at all (e.g. ticket for rolling a stop at 2:00 AM), and then we have s. 172. Our criminal justice system is a joke, but with respect to officers ticketing people for traffic offences, it's a red herring. Also, "uneducated tax collectors"? Think about that for a second. The idea that cops are stupid, uneducated individuals may seem like something to laugh at, but then the people who are pointing at the cops and insulting them are the ones who get caught by them. How ironic.
Frodamob wrote:
Why does it take two squad cars for a minor traffic infraction? I have never understood this, why they request/need backup?
Several reasons. First, if a person is driving through a high-complaints area at 4:00 in the morning, then starts giving the cop attitude and otherwise acting suspicious, the cop would be nuts NOT to call for backup. (Act like you've got something to hide and they'll dig for it.) Policing is one of the few occupations where's a real possibility that they might not go home at the end of the shift. Second, many drivers are gigantic a-holes and blaze past parked emergency vehicles at high speed without slowing down or moving over. This puts the officer and the person he's stopped in danger. The second vehicle is often there to go after the offender.
Frodamob wrote:
This is simply a cash cow, tax collector at work here. Look at what it takes to be a police officer ... High School Education and a valid O.A.C.P. Certificate. Traffic cops, at times, can be uneducated tax collectors, AND they are put in a position daily of being judge, jury, and executioner, they are the lowest form of cop, right there with lovely Rita Meter Maid (Parking Warden)
That's completely uncalled for. Some traffic enforcement is ridiculous (such as speed traps on a deserted expressway at 3:00 AM), but that said, any time you break a law you're at risk of consequences. Only in very few cases are the cops genuinely picking on someone (e.g. Dennis Mahoney-Bruer). If you are speeding, you risk getting a speeding ticket. That's life. I try to help people who get tickets because I think our speed limits are too low, enforcement is often overly-directed at speeding alone, some offences that people are ticketed for caused no harm at all (e.g. ticket for rolling a stop at 2:00 AM), and then we have s. 172. Our criminal justice system is a joke, but with respect to officers ticketing people for traffic offences, it's a red herring.
Also, "uneducated tax collectors"? Think about that for a second. The idea that cops are stupid, uneducated individuals may seem like something to laugh at, but then the people who are pointing at the cops and insulting them are the ones who get caught by them. How ironic.
First, if a person is driving through a high-complaints area at 4:00 in the morning, then starts giving the cop attitude and otherwise acting suspicious, the cop would be nuts NOT to call for backup. (Act like you've got something to hide and they'll dig for it.) them. How ironic. So when a cop pulls me over under HTA and asks my passengers for ID (WTF DO YOU NEED HIS ID FOR???) and i question it, Im giving him attitude? How bout the part where they stopped me was a dirt road and before he stopped me he put his spotlight on my truck and i couldnt see, AND it was foggy, and left the spotlight on for ill wager at least 5 seconds before putting his emergency lights on. He put the cherries on about the exact time i SLAMMED ON MY BREAKS for a stop sign i didnt see and stopped about 2 feet short of a car going down the highway from my left doing at least 60km/h. Wreckless endangerment? I also broke my mirror in half fumbling for it trying to move it so i could see while this D-bag was following me with a giant 10 million candle power spotlight blinding me. They always talk abnout attitude. I wasn;t doing anything suspicious. he followed me down a street. I drive down MY street every night between 12:00am and 3am.
Radar Identified wrote:
Frodamob wrote:
Why does it take two squad cars for a minor traffic infraction? I have never understood this, why they request/need backup?
First, if a person is driving through a high-complaints area at 4:00 in the morning, then starts giving the cop attitude and otherwise acting suspicious, the cop would be nuts NOT to call for backup. (Act like you've got something to hide and they'll dig for it.) them. How ironic.
So when a cop pulls me over under HTA and asks my passengers for ID (WTF DO YOU NEED HIS ID FOR???) and i question it, Im giving him attitude? How bout the part where they stopped me was a dirt road and before he stopped me he put his spotlight on my truck and i couldnt see, AND it was foggy, and left the spotlight on for ill wager at least 5 seconds before putting his emergency lights on. He put the cherries on about the exact time i SLAMMED ON MY BREAKS for a stop sign i didnt see and stopped about 2 feet short of a car going down the highway from my left doing at least 60km/h. Wreckless endangerment? I also broke my mirror in half fumbling for it trying to move it so i could see while this D-bag was following me with a giant 10 million candle power spotlight blinding me.
They always talk abnout attitude. I wasn;t doing anything suspicious. he followed me down a street. I drive down MY street every night between 12:00am and 3am.
This is an interesting statistic, however it's fairly biased. I would bet that most tickets are given out in the areas where the least deaths occur. This would be in town where the only crimes that are ever solved are traffic. Almost every weekend there is some form of vandalism on my street, however there are no police patrolling. Still seems to me that the traffic act is a tax collection for the unfortunate.
Traffic collisions cause more deaths per year in Canada than crime.
OPP stats: for 2008
16 homicides
208 deaths in traffic collisions
Would you not want the area with the highest deaths getting the most attention?
This is an interesting statistic, however it's fairly biased. I would bet that most tickets are given out in the areas where the least deaths occur. This would be in town where the only crimes that are ever solved are traffic. Almost every weekend there is some form of vandalism on my street, however there are no police patrolling. Still seems to me that the traffic act is a tax collection for the unfortunate.
This is an interesting statistic, however it's fairly biased. . How can actual deaths in the same allotted time frame be biased? Simple... The homicides occur in towns/cities. The majority of traffic fatalities I am guessing do not. There are far more police resources consumed monitoring traffic in highly populated areas where the fewest fatalities occur and the majority of homicides and all other forms of crime occur. Bias may not be the correct word, but it's still misleading.
hwybear wrote:
davec wrote:
Traffic collisions cause more deaths per year in Canada than crime.
OPP stats: for 2008
16 homicides
208 deaths in traffic collisions
Would you not want the area with the highest deaths getting the most attention?
This is an interesting statistic, however it's fairly biased. .
How can actual deaths in the same allotted time frame be biased?
Simple...
The homicides occur in towns/cities. The majority of traffic fatalities I am guessing do not. There are far more police resources consumed monitoring traffic in highly populated areas where the fewest fatalities occur and the majority of homicides and all other forms of crime occur.
Bias may not be the correct word, but it's still misleading.
And how did you respond to the officer asking your passenger for ID? Was it closer to: "Why?" or was it more like: "Why the f*** do you need his ID, you fat pig?" Also, from your post under speeding 30-49 km/h over the limit: Well... good luck in court.
ponyboyt wrote:
So when a cop pulls me over under HTA and asks my passengers for ID (WTF DO YOU NEED HIS ID FOR???) and i question it, Im giving him attitude?
And how did you respond to the officer asking your passenger for ID? Was it closer to: "Why?" or was it more like: "Why the f*** do you need his ID, you fat pig?"
Also, from your post under speeding 30-49 km/h over the limit:
Fatalities by road type ... as of 2003 http://www.ccmta.ca/english/pdf/collisi ... s_03_e.pdf Urban 936 ( defined by metropolitan or speeds below 60km/h at collision site) Rural 1539 ( primary or secondary hwy speeds exceeding 60km/h at collision site) A more relevant statistic is the number of injuries, Urban 110,511, Rural 41,639 One could argue that since it costs the taxpayer more for injuries than fatalities that the extra resources required in rural areas to police traffic are warranted, however I doubt that speed is an issue in rural collisions. I would guess it's driver training, experience etc. Regardless if your argument is that more fatalities on the road than homicides justifies all the policing of highways, then the majority of the police resources should be concentrated on rural roads as defined above.
Urban 936 ( defined by metropolitan or speeds below 60km/h at collision site)
Rural 1539 ( primary or secondary hwy speeds exceeding 60km/h at collision site)
A more relevant statistic is the number of injuries,
Urban 110,511, Rural 41,639
One could argue that since it costs the taxpayer more for injuries than fatalities that the extra resources required in rural areas to police traffic are warranted, however I doubt that speed is an issue in rural collisions. I would guess it's driver training, experience etc.
Regardless if your argument is that more fatalities on the road than homicides justifies all the policing of highways, then the majority of the police resources should be concentrated on rural roads as defined above.
Well... good luck in court. Thus far i've paid 2 of those tickets. 2 were thrown out without a court date ever being set. I have 4 court dates this year and 2 next year. Don't know when this one is yet. It's not like i pull attitude whenever i get stopped. I've been stopped more than a few times where i had a decent enough cop who didn't give me a hard time. But when they stop me and totaly out of the blue start hammering off the wall questions seemingly accusing suspision and talk to me like im an inmate in some facility I will get defensive. Especialy after the time they pulled my girlfriend out of the car to "talk to her" and told er how much of a piece of s**t i was. I havent been in trouble with the police since 1998. Seems not everyone will forget i guess, and i expect to be treated differently. But that doesn't mean i have no rights. The ammount of BS that goes on is retarded. I see it more than the average Joe because of the hours i keep. (I assume thats why). If you read my Niagara story before i pulled it down you would understand my "defensiveness".
Radar Identified wrote:
And how did you respond to the officer asking your passenger for ID? Was it closer to: "Why?" or was it more like: "Why the f*** do you need his ID, you fat pig?"
My exact words were "why do they need ID?" With more of a shocked tone than anything.
Also, from your post under speeding 30-49 km/h over the limit:
ponyboyt wrote:
This is my 12th ticket in 3 months.
Well... good luck in court.
Thus far i've paid 2 of those tickets. 2 were thrown out without a court date ever being set. I have 4 court dates this year and 2 next year. Don't know when this one is yet.
It's not like i pull attitude whenever i get stopped. I've been stopped more than a few times where i had a decent enough cop who didn't give me a hard time. But when they stop me and totaly out of the blue start hammering off the wall questions seemingly accusing suspision and talk to me like im an inmate in some facility I will get defensive. Especialy after the time they pulled my girlfriend out of the car to "talk to her" and told er how much of a piece of s**t i was. I havent been in trouble with the police since 1998. Seems not everyone will forget i guess, and i expect to be treated differently. But that doesn't mean i have no rights. The ammount of BS that goes on is retarded. I see it more than the average Joe because of the hours i keep. (I assume thats why). If you read my Niagara story before i pulled it down you would understand my "defensiveness".
Couple story's: I was out looking for diapers one night at about 12:30 AM. I had slowed down to glance at a shoppers drug mart to see if they were open. At the time i was driving a 1994 red 2 door Grand Prix GTP. It was tinted pretty dark and had fairly loud pipes and a very loud stereo and modified engine. I was being quiet as it was pretty late on a week night. At the time i slowed down there happened to be a cop who looked like he was doing standard patrol checking on the plaza where the Shoppers was. I think he saw me slow down and kinda stick my head out the window to see if the store was open so he stopped me. Long story short, he offered a couple hints as to where i might find diapers this late and gave me a 48 hour warning to fix my headlight. I fixed it the next day and met him on his next shift. He didn't stop me and scream and hollar things like YOU WERE GONA ROB THAT STORE. Maybe that's an exageration.... but to get the point.... Month or so after that stop, i was stopped in my home town on a main street, again at night. The cop told me i couldn't stop where i was and to move my car over a few feet. I complained that there was plowed snow in the way (my car was lowered) and he threatened a ticket for blocking traffic or something... so i drove into the snow bank and ended up turning one of my mufflers loose. I complained about this and he said if the car was in that good shape it would be easy to fix /boggle. No ticket, just 20 minutes of my time wasted. The next night i got stopped for "pipes are too loud and your windows are too dark" i swear every police car in town was there. (population 9000). Stopped about 200 metres up the road from the ngiht before. I was on my way to Tim Hortons for a hot chocolate. I do that when its late and im not tired enoughto sleep. Summing it up, no ticket, bunch of warnings (threats) about an hour and 10 minutes of my time wasted. I don't think i ever got a ticket in that car. I got rid of it cause i was sick of the hassle and bought my STS. Thats when the tickets started rolling in... So much for thinking a grampa car would be safer....
Couple story's:
I was out looking for diapers one night at about 12:30 AM. I had slowed down to glance at a shoppers drug mart to see if they were open. At the time i was driving a 1994 red 2 door Grand Prix GTP. It was tinted pretty dark and had fairly loud pipes and a very loud stereo and modified engine. I was being quiet as it was pretty late on a week night. At the time i slowed down there happened to be a cop who looked like he was doing standard patrol checking on the plaza where the Shoppers was. I think he saw me slow down and kinda stick my head out the window to see if the store was open so he stopped me. Long story short, he offered a couple hints as to where i might find diapers this late and gave me a 48 hour warning to fix my headlight. I fixed it the next day and met him on his next shift. He didn't stop me and scream and hollar things like YOU WERE GONA ROB THAT STORE. Maybe that's an exageration.... but to get the point....
Month or so after that stop, i was stopped in my home town on a main street, again at night. The cop told me i couldn't stop where i was and to move my car over a few feet. I complained that there was plowed snow in the way (my car was lowered) and he threatened a ticket for blocking traffic or something... so i drove into the snow bank and ended up turning one of my mufflers loose. I complained about this and he said if the car was in that good shape it would be easy to fix /boggle. No ticket, just 20 minutes of my time wasted.
The next night i got stopped for "pipes are too loud and your windows are too dark" i swear every police car in town was there. (population 9000). Stopped about 200 metres up the road from the ngiht before. I was on my way to Tim Hortons for a hot chocolate. I do that when its late and im not tired enoughto sleep. Summing it up, no ticket, bunch of warnings (threats) about an hour and 10 minutes of my time wasted.
I don't think i ever got a ticket in that car. I got rid of it cause i was sick of the hassle and bought my STS. Thats when the tickets started rolling in... So much for thinking a grampa car would be safer....
Fatalities by road type ... as of 2003 http://www.ccmta.ca/english/pdf/collisi ... s_03_e.pdf Urban 936 ( defined by metropolitan or speeds below 60km/h at collision site) Rural 1539 ( primary or secondary hwy speeds exceeding 60km/h at collision site) A more relevant statistic is the number of injuries, Urban 110,511, Rural 41,639 One could argue that since it costs the taxpayer more for injuries than fatalities that the extra resources required in rural areas to police traffic are warranted, however I doubt that speed is an issue in rural collisions. I would guess it's driver training, experience etc. Regardless if your argument is that more fatalities on the road than homicides justifies all the policing of highways, then the majority of the police resources should be concentrated on rural roads as defined above. Damn dave, you come armed with numbers.... :D
Urban 936 ( defined by metropolitan or speeds below 60km/h at collision site)
Rural 1539 ( primary or secondary hwy speeds exceeding 60km/h at collision site)
A more relevant statistic is the number of injuries,
Urban 110,511, Rural 41,639
One could argue that since it costs the taxpayer more for injuries than fatalities that the extra resources required in rural areas to police traffic are warranted, however I doubt that speed is an issue in rural collisions. I would guess it's driver training, experience etc.
Regardless if your argument is that more fatalities on the road than homicides justifies all the policing of highways, then the majority of the police resources should be concentrated on rural roads as defined above.
Damn dave, you come armed with numbers....
http://www.OHTA.ca OR http://www.OntarioTrafficAct.com
Given the number of times you've been stopped/ticketed lately, you might want to consider hiring a lawyer. The lawyer could do a bit of digging and see if your vehicle/plate has been flagged for some reason. If you haven't been in trouble since 1998 and now you're getting pulled over basically every week, something's going on. Type of car... maybe. Did your STS come with new plates, or did you just transfer the plates to the new vehicle?
ponyboyt wrote:
I havent been in trouble with the police since 1998. Seems not everyone will forget i guess, and i expect to be treated differently. But that doesn't mean i have no rights.
Given the number of times you've been stopped/ticketed lately, you might want to consider hiring a lawyer. The lawyer could do a bit of digging and see if your vehicle/plate has been flagged for some reason. If you haven't been in trouble since 1998 and now you're getting pulled over basically every week, something's going on. Type of car... maybe. Did your STS come with new plates, or did you just transfer the plates to the new vehicle?
not new plates. I started to blame the car. Its flashy. Its tinted. I figure Niagara was looking for drugs when they got me. It's weird though that when they stop me they always ask me about stuff that has nothing to do with what i was in trouble for in the past. Makes me think they don't see my record. Like maybe its bumped off the computer. When i was in the cruiser in Niagara he ran my name and i didnt see anything, not that i know the software and what to look for.... I have thought about a lawyer looking into it for me. But what would that do other than tell me why they stop me?
not new plates.
I started to blame the car. Its flashy. Its tinted. I figure Niagara was looking for drugs when they got me. It's weird though that when they stop me they always ask me about stuff that has nothing to do with what i was in trouble for in the past. Makes me think they don't see my record. Like maybe its bumped off the computer. When i was in the cruiser in Niagara he ran my name and i didnt see anything, not that i know the software and what to look for....
I have thought about a lawyer looking into it for me. But what would that do other than tell me why they stop me?
Hi so I have a bizzare situation. Today I received a summons for "being the owner of a motor vehicle bearing Vehicle Identification Number ###, failed to submit the vehicle, equipment or drawn vehicle for inspection or tests as required by an officer" for a vehicle I previously owned. Apparently a violation of HTA 82(9).
The date of offense is June 15, the summons was issued on October 26th and I…
Hi, I need some help for the ticket of lmproper left turn.
When i drove my car from east to west, intending to make a left turn and stop in front of stop line. There was a car in front of me, which has turn on yellow light. The light was turning red and then I thought I cannot leave in the intersection and turned, an incoming car was runing the light and hit me. No one got hurt but both cars had…
Have a ticket in which the radar used was a Genesis VP Directional. I had downloaded the manual for a Genesis VP but I now realize that the unit is not the same so it is the wrong manual. My trial is very soon so I do not have time to ask for disclosure of the manual.
Does anyone have access to an electronic version of the manual for Genesis VP Directional?
I was pulled over today in the city of Oakville for going 75 in a 40 zone. However, I am 100 percent certain that I was going only 50 in the 40 zone. When I was pulled over, I was driving my Dad's car which I felt was the reason I was getting stopped since two teenagers driving a 2013 S Class. He asked does I know why I am being pulled over and I…
I really need help on fighting my 9 tickets i received from one police officer. Here is some background of what happened!
I was caught speeding 66km on a 40km (school zone) on January 29, 2010. I was driving my friend's car and turns out she didnt renew the validation on the vehicle and didnt leave the up to date insurance paper on the car.
Hey question that I think here's probably the best place to get the answer:
I was charged with a careless driving offence in oct, trail in early april, so as of right now my insurance record is 100% clean... except the officer did file an accident report at the scene where I was classified at fault due to it being PI (although very minor). The person I hit did not sue etc, so the insurance company…
Very much unintentionally passed a stopped bus, with sign and flashing lights. Didn't realize I had done it until I was at the end of the bus. I'll save you my sob story, but it was truly accidental. I'm generally very cautious and have a perfect driving record. Never been stopped.
While I realize if a cop had seen me that I would have gotten a ticket, there were none in sight. Though I may very…
I was recently pulled over for running a red and I wasnt able to find my wallet in the car at the time to hand over my license. I had a passport in the vehicle that he used. The wallet was in the vehicle, it just fell through the seats. (Tough to find a black leather wallet in a black/black leather truck at night).
The officer still wrote the tickets for both he signed the one ticket (failure to…
I was passing a vehicle that was going slow for me and there was an oncoming vehicle coming at me. I speed up to get around the person I was passing and the oncoming vehicle turns out to be a cop who turns around and tickets me for going 110km in a 80km zone. How does it work with passing a vehicle? Once I passed the vehicle I went back down to my original speed of just under 100. The officer…
I picked up a brand new (old stock) Fuzzbuster a while ago at auction (wopping $5!!) and I want to mount it on the dash of my old GTO as a cool accessory when I show it at car shows. But I'm not sure if it's legal or not.
Here's my thoughts:
- It is early 70's technology (x-band) so it won't detect modern police radar. That's assuming no police force uses the old x-band frequency.
Hi guys, I'm still a little in shock of getting my first traffic ticket...
On Monday afternoon, I was returning from Toronto to Ottawa on HW416, I was driving about 15 over 100 like always. Then a car came very close to me on the left lane and made me nervous, I speed up unintentionally to pass the car and change lane, but while doing that a police car pull out of the median. He was hiding in…
May i ask this question regarding transport trucks limited to 105 km/h. Moving road blocks or safety?
IMO it isnt speed that kills. I find transport trucks infact help keep the road going. With cars that choose to not move to the right and slow down the middle lane the trucks would try to pass in their passing lane therefore the slower traffic would move right.
Received a notice from the police that a motion is being put forward to adjourn upcoming trial date. Notice indicates that an officer has sworn an affidavit that the crucial witness cannot attend date trial is set for (we know there is a social engagement at 7:30 pm for the witness, trial time is 1:30 pm). This further delay is a big problem to my daughter's case. She is moving away to…
This is what happened. I was travelling west on a four lane city street that was very light with traffic. I was making a left hand turn into a wide driveway of a business. There was traffic lights about 100 yards past the driveway and were red for the east-west traffic. I was in the left lane with my signal on and there was no oncoming traffic due to the red light. I was slowed right down…
I was driving my families older car and got pulled over, and the police officer informed me my plate was dirty. He issued me a ticket of $110 for the 13(2) act and obstruct plate as the offense. He informed me that such a plate could be used to avoid red lights as well as 407 tolls, also that buying a new plate can help to lower the ticket if I fight the charge, and that he also took a picture…
I received a red light camera ticket. In the picture, you see an ambulance in front of me with flashing lights. I had moved to alleviate the traffic behind me for the emergency vehicles coming behind it.
Is this a possible defense, if so, does anyone know any good case law to justify this position?
what happens if they charge someone for driving at 151Km/hr in montreal and they put for trial, appear after some months and sadly lost the trial ?
In montreal its $300 fine and 5demerit points ...
I heard Ontario and Qubec share the information. So once the trial is over ( and when the file moved to ontario) will his car gets towed and licence get suspended for 7days (later to 30 days ) ? and he…
I got a notice in the mail that trial is set four weeks from today, so it's time to request disclosure. I have zero chance of getting an 11b since trial is less than two months after the offense date and the officer did not reduce the charge. I really want to try and create delays on the trial, to reduce the chance of the officer showing up on multiple occasions. Is there any known loop-holes…
This weekend my father was involved in an accident with a transit bus in Burlington, ON. After the police showed up he was charged with "Fail to obey stop sign" Sec. 136(1)(a). At this particular intersection there NO stop signs but there are traffic lights. There is construction going on there so one of the light posts is smaller.
Driving conditions were terribly wet and visibility was low.…
So my boyfriend and I recently started dating. I have a vehicle that was insured. Insurance cost too much and I found it was just as easy to walk to work due to how close it was. But I didn't want to get rid of my car just yet, plus I'm still making payments on it as well. When we moved into our appartment together, I had it towed to my parking spot out back.
I was making a left hand legal turn on a green light, a driver came through the lane I was supposed to be going into ran the red and hit me head on as I was turning into my lane. When the officer came he was telling me that I was racing and driving recklessly because apparently there was reports of street racing in the area. I was not charged on the scene for this but I'm scared i am going to be…
I got a ticket for failure to surrender insurance because I did not have my new insurance stubs with me, just a bunch of expired ones. My policy number has not changed, so I asked the officer to just run the policy number so I could prove that I was in fact insured. He said they don't have that ability, handed me the ticket and reminded me that my car could have been impounded.
So I'm in a bit of a pickle and would appreciate if someone could clarify something for me.
I'm less than a month away (test on April 6th) from getting my full G license, and got a speeding ticket recently. The ticket was for 49km/h over the posted limit of 100km/h on the 403 in Oakville/Halton region, but was reduced from the initial ~60km/h over.
Not only to police but the other professions you grouped in.
