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Moore St near Bayview (HTA 182 (2)) A couple of questions...
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 5:00 pm 
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Got my first ticket last Thursday and I have a couple of questions. I was driving westbound on Moore St. (west of Bayview) and made a left onto a residential street at a 4-way stop sign. It was my first time driving through that area - was driving my girlfriend to a wisdom tooth surgery.
The police were set up to catch people, as that intersection had a no left turn sign from 7-9 am (buses excepted)...that I just did not see.
Was charged with: 182 (2) - Disobey Sign.

Questions:
1. What's the difference between 182 (2) and 144 (9)? To me, 144 (9) would seem a more appropriate charge...

2. I am planning on choosing option 3 (trial). I have heard that it is good to ask for "disclosure". When and how do I request this?

3. If I speak to a prosecutor before hand, what is the likelyhood that they will lower it to a charge that won't go on my driving record (e.g., like a municipal by-law)? I'm not overly concerned about the fine or demerit points...just the record. Any suggestion on what to ask for??

4. If I don't like the prosecutor's offer, I will fight it. Any suggestions based on my circumstance? I have the receipt from the surgery to prove where I was going (that this isn't my daily route)...my record is/was clean...there were two signs posted across the street at the 4-way stop. Not overly obvious especially when you are checking for other cars and are somewhat lost. Moreover, it wasn't "dangerous", nor was I holding anyone up (since every car had to stop). I can only guess that sign is there to keep that particular street clear from cars in rush hour.

I appreciate you help...thanks.


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Re: First Ticket (HTA 182 (2)) A couple of questions...
PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 6:21 pm 
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bpassand wrote:
To me, 144 (9) would seem a more appropriate charge...


that section is for intersections controlled by a traffic control signal (traffic lights)

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Above is merely a suggestion/thought and in no way constitutes legal advice or views of my employer. www.OHTA.ca


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 8:23 pm 
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Take some pictures, refer to guidelines: http://www.ontariohighwaytrafficact.com/topic1765.html

You want to show that the tree is obstructing the view of the sign. It is the responsibility of the city to make sure that the signs are visible.

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"The more laws, the less justice" - Marcus Tullius Cicero
"The hardest thing to explain is the obvious"

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 11:13 am 
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Your best bet would be to go to first attendance, they will probably knock it down to zero points and a lesser fine.

DJ


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 12:18 pm 
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Probably a simple question, but what is "first attendance"? Is that the actual trial date, or should I set up a meeting with the prosecutor ahead of time?

Thanks


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Prohibited Turn
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 8:11 am 
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If you go to first attendance they might take of the demerit points but the ticket will still go on your driving record for 3 years. Best to set a trial date.

The disclosure is going to tell you that there is a a sign there, and your vehicle disobeyed it....

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Retired Toronto Traffic Officer, Hit & Run Squad Detective,
Breathalyzer Tech, Radar/Highway Patrol
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 9:35 pm 
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First attendance is meeting with the prosecutor. He/she can offer you a lower charge. It is NOT a trial date, it is before the trial though, and you have a few dates during which you can go to see him/her. Basically you are agreeing to plead guilty without a fight and the prosecutor cuts you a deal in terms of penalty/actual charge you are agreeing to admit. You will receive a few (as in a score) of FA meeting dates in your court documents for the trial date.

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"The more laws, the less justice" - Marcus Tullius Cicero
"The hardest thing to explain is the obvious"

www.OHTA.ca & www.OntarioHighwayTrafficAct.com


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 1:45 am 
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each early attendance is different.

They dropped it right there after I spoke to them.

I think you should never take there first offer.

It looks scary but nothing to it.

Cheers
Viper1
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 11:16 pm 
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viper1 wrote:
each early attendance is different.

They dropped it right there after I spoke to them.

I think you should never take there first offer.

It looks scary but nothing to it.

Cheers
Viper1
.


I'm still kind of confused. When I get my court date in the mail, the documents provided will include multiple "early attendace dates"? If I go on one of those dates and don't like the offer, can I refuse it? Do I then have the option of going to another early attendance date or would I need to go to court at that point?


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