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Disobey Stop Sign Ticket
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 11:01 am 
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Hello all,

I've decided to fight a traffic ticket for stop sign violation. The offense was 12 months ago, and I've got a court date for next Tuesday. I've requested disclosure and, although a bit last minute, received it two weeks before my court date.

Upon reviewing the case materials, there isn't much of a defense I can find -based on the cop having an obstructed view, or any mistakes in the legal process- so I was hoping to bargain with the Prosecutor:

In your opinion, how successful would I be in asking for a By-Law infringement ticket?

The main goal here is to protect my driving record, but I have no problem paying a fine, so I've read that a by-law ticket (such as "disobey official by-law sign", or something along those lines) could be enforced.

Thoughts? and anyone have reference to by-law codes in Peel Region? I can't seem to find them online.

Thanks.


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Re: Disobey Stop Sign Ticket
PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 7:47 am 
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mischief wrote:
In your opinion, how successful would I be in asking for a By-Law infringement ticket?


What exactly is a "by-law"?

How can it not affect your insurance record?

There's this HOV lane on Don Mills, that begins south of Finch. If a cop tickets me, is that also a by-law infringement?

Interesting...


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 10:32 am 
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I might be a little too late in replying, but you can certainly try to plea-bargain to a by-law infraction. That's probably your best choice. The Prosecutor will likely offer you a deal before the trial starts.

diehard wrote:
What exactly is a "by-law"?


Laws that are set by the cities/municipalities. Things like local parking laws, noise, etc...

diehard wrote:
How can it not affect your insurance record?


Because MTO doesn't put by-law infractions on your driver abstract, your insurance company won't find out about them. By-law infractions aren't HTA. Many cities have by-laws relating to traffic, for example Ottawa has things like "disobey traffic signal" and "disobey official sign," which officers can use to ticket motorists if they don't want to hit them with a full HTA charge.

You could get ticketed for improperly using the HOV lane on Don Mills with both an HTA charge, or a municipal charge. Depends on what the officer wants to charge you with.

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* The above is NOT legal advice. By acting on anything I have said, you assume responsibility for any outcome and consequences. *
http://www.OntarioTicket.com OR http://www.OHTA.ca


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 1:50 pm 
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Location: Hamilton, ON
.
..
Hi Radar:

Radar Identified wrote:
...try to plea-bargain to a by-law infraction. That's probably your best choice. The Prosecutor will likely offer you a deal before the trial starts.

By-law infractions aren't HTA. Many cities have by-laws relating to traffic, for example Ottawa has things like "disobey traffic signal" and "disobey official sign," which officers can use to ticket motorists if they don't want to hit them with a full HTA charge.

You could get ticketed for improperly using the HOV lane on Don Mills with both an HTA charge, or a municipal charge. Depends on what the officer wants to charge you with.


This is actually quite interesting. I was reviewing the Law Commission of Ontario's POA Consultation Paper and I can see there is a tendency to remove parking and some HTA violations from the POA jurisdiction.

You can check the following links:

http://www.lco-cdo.org/en/provincial-of ... sectionIII

and

http://www.lco-cdo.org/en/provincial-of ... tion-paper

They propose to implement an Administrative Monetary Penalties (AMPs) system whereas offences classified for it will be no longer dealt with under the Provincial Offenses Act.

Most likely Part II - Parking tickets will be removed entirely. Fines will be paid with no further consequences. I believe you can still defend the charge, but I am still confused about it.

You see more and more prosecutors going for a deal amending the certificate of offence to reflect a by-law violation, which defendants take happily.

Cheers.
..
.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 7:32 pm 
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Biron wrote:
You see more and more prosecutors going for a deal amending the certificate of offence to reflect a by-law violation, which defendants take happily.


In Peel Region, they don't do this; apparently, Peel Region doesn't have a general "Disobey sign" ticket By-Law. SO if anyone is reading this, don't bother trying it.

I pleaded Guilty to a slightly lesser charge, but I still got a ticket. Driving record; tarnished for 9 years, and counting. What a pathetic cash-grab of a system we live with.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 12:31 am 
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Biron: That's an interesting development... Keep me posted...

mischief: Sorry it didn't work out for you, although a lesser charge is still better than the original charge, IMO...

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* The above is NOT legal advice. By acting on anything I have said, you assume responsibility for any outcome and consequences. *
http://www.OntarioTicket.com OR http://www.OHTA.ca


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 4:37 pm 
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Location: Hamilton, ON
Radar Identified wrote:
Biron: That's an interesting development... Keep me posted...


Sure; I will.

You can read the entire POA Consultation Paper at:
http://www.lco-cdo.org/en/provincial-of ... tion-paper

And you can give feedback and let them know how you feel about it at the following link:
http://www.lco-cdo.org/content/tell-us-what-you-think

Maybe we could convince Symon Boris to give us his opinion. :wink: :D

Cheers.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 03, 2010 10:15 am 
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I would be happy to give my opinion, I just needed some time to read the consultation paper.

The paper is huge and covers a lot of issues so I'll keep my comments general.

First of all, I think that the idea of reforming and modernizing the POA is an excellent idea. In a lot of ways it is outdated and this leads to a lot of inefficiency in both the functioning and enforcement of the Acts.

I love the idea of AMP's for certain offences, especially matters under Part II of the POA (parking). In fact, I think that Part II should be removed completely and parking matters should be under the sole discretion and control of municipalities.

I also think that extending AMP's to other certain other offences would go a long way to alleviating the burden in the courts. I can't tell you the number of times I've been to court for something like a val tag ticket wondering, "Why am I even here?". For charges regulatory and licencing charges like that I think an AMP might be more appropriate.

In summary, POA reform...great idea!

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 03, 2010 10:45 am 
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Simon Borys wrote:
In summary, POA reform...great idea!


Thanks Simon. I'm sorry I misspelled you name switching the Y and the I.

Cheers.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 03, 2010 11:12 am 
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No problem :)

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 04, 2010 9:26 pm 
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Introducing AMPs would be a great idea, from what I see. There are so many issues which should be dealt with in an administrative manner instead of the court system.

Keeping a good part of the HTA under the court system is probably a good idea, though. I think the state of New York handles a large number of its traffic tickets as administrative issues, with a bureau overseeing the system in most of NY's bigger cities. :shock:

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* The above is NOT legal advice. By acting on anything I have said, you assume responsibility for any outcome and consequences. *
http://www.OntarioTicket.com OR http://www.OHTA.ca


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