Failure to sign permit in ink - $110 fine.

I figured pleading not guilty is the same as saying it was signed which is stupid. A friend of mine told me I could plead guilty with explanation and try to get the fine reduced when I come in.

Can anyone comment on this, is this true at all?

Plead guilty with an explanation is still pleading guilty. What is your permit signed with? Pencil? Usually the cops would let you sign that permit and be done with that.

Were you charged with 8(1)? Look here and see if it says anywhere that the permit must be signed in any manner. Nowhere. That is how you defeat the charge - it was mislaid.

HTA OREG 628 Vehicle Permits

8. (1) It is a condition applying to every permit, that it bear the signature of the holder thereof, written in ink.

(2) Where the permit holder is a corporation, the signature of a person authorized to sign on behalf of the corporation is compliance with subsection (1).

*********************

I always get the owner to sign the permit if the owner is present (to prevent repetition of offence), however, does not mean they will not receive a ticket.

racer wrote:Plead guilty with an explanation is still pleading guilty. What is your permit signed with? Pencil? Usually the cops would let you sign that permit and be done with that.

It wasn't signed at all. Normally they would tell you to sign it at the Ministry, but this time the dealer took care of the paperwork and just gave me the plates and the ownership. So I never signed, just checked my name is written correctly on it.

They explained me at the court house, that people plead guilty with an explanaition if they want the charge to be reduced or postponed. That's what I am going to do, as I don't see any defense here.

Insuranse company doesn't care about convictions like that?

Insuranse company doesn't care about convictions like that?

Fail to sign ownership in ink, no. There are one or two very weird insurance companies that would but the overwhelming majority don't care. That particular offence seldom, if ever, will have any effect on your rates.

Speeding tickets, yes, but up to 15 km/h over the limit for first offence in a three year period, most of them just let it go. Second offence for 15 or less over, they usually start raising rates or add a small surcharge.

Radar Identified wrote:

Speeding tickets, yes, but up to 15 km/h over the limit for first offence in a three year period, most of them just let it go. Second offence for 15 or less over, they usually start raising rates or add a small surcharge.

Provided that you pass they're credit check!

hwybear wrote:HTA OREG 628 Vehicle Permits

8. (1) It is a condition applying to every permit, that it bear the signature of the holder thereof, written in ink.

(2) Where the permit holder is a corporation, the signature of a person authorized to sign on behalf of the corporation is compliance with subsection (1).

*********************

I always get the owner to sign the permit if the owner is present (to prevent repetition of offence), however, does not mean they will not receive a ticket.

Which OHTA are you quoting? This is Sect 8.

Permit limitations

8. (1) Where the fee prescribed by the regulations for a permit or validated permit for a motor vehicle is calculated with regard to specific limitations or restrictions on the use of a vehicle, the owner of the vehicle shall not drive or cause or permit the vehicle to be driven on a highway except in accordance with the limitations or restrictions. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 8 (1).

Penalty

(2) Every person who contravenes subsection (1) is guilty of an offence and on conviction is liable to a fine of not less than $100 and not more than $500. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 8 (2).

Provided that you pass they're credit check!

Using someone's credit history or rating to set the insurance rate is illegal in Ontario.

racer wrote:

hwybear wrote:HTA OREG 628 Vehicle Permits

8. (1) It is a condition applying to every permit, that it bear the signature of the holder thereof, written in ink.

(2) Where the permit holder is a corporation, the signature of a person authorized to sign on behalf of the corporation is compliance with subsection (1).

*********************

I always get the owner to sign the permit if the owner is present (to prevent repetition of offence), however, does not mean they will not receive a ticket.

Which OHTA are you quoting? This is Sect 8.

Permit limitations

8. (1) Where the fee prescribed by the regulations for a permit or validated permit for a motor vehicle is calculated with regard to specific limitations or restrictions on the use of a vehicle, the owner of the vehicle shall not drive or cause or permit the vehicle to be driven on a highway except in accordance with the limitations or restrictions. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 8 (1).

Penalty

(2) Every person who contravenes subsection (1) is guilty of an offence and on conviction is liable to a fine of not less than $100 and not more than $500. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 8 (2).

You referred to HTA section 8.......

there is an an HTA, Ontario Regulation 628....that is up/beyond HTA sec 8.

(something like driver's licences are section 32, but there is an HTA OREG 340/94). There are also quite a few permit stipulations in HTA sec 7.

hwybear wrote:You referred to HTA section 8.......

there is an an HTA, Ontario Regulation 628....that is up/beyond HTA sec 8.

(something like driver's licences are section 32, but there is an HTA OREG 340/94). There are also quite a few permit stipulations in HTA sec 7.

Oh man, which ones do I have to read on top of OHTA itself then?

guess a way to look at it is that the HTA itself is basic. To clarify some sections the gov't (in their wisdom ) adds in a regulation which now supersedes the HTA or clarifies the HTA.

ontario elaws, then search, instead of typing in HTA, click on the letter "H". scroll down to the Highway Traffic Act, then click on the "plus" sign, this will show a *EDIT* load of regulations.

want weird stuff.....just read HTA 62(17) and see how many bicycles are in compliance......maybe 0.1%

hwybear wrote:guess a way to look at it is that the HTA itself is basic. To clarify some sections the gov't (in their wisdom ) adds in a regulation which now supersedes the HTA or clarifies the HTA.

ontario elaws, then search, instead of typing in HTA, click on the letter "H". scroll down to the Highway Traffic Act, then click on the "plus" sign, this will show a *EDIT* load of regulations.

want weird stuff.....just read HTA 62(17) and see how many bicycles are in compliance......maybe 0.1%

So, as much as the OHTA itself then?

8. (1) Where the fee prescribed by the regulations for a permit or validated permit for a motor vehicle is calculated with regard to specific limitations or restrictions on the use of a vehicle, the owner of the vehicle shall not drive or cause or permit the vehicle to be driven on a highway except in accordance with the limitations or restrictions. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 8 (1).

I was reading these lines over and over again trying to understand what fee is calculated based on what specific restrictions.

Even if I've read the HTA before I wouldn't be able to understand that, so the only way for me to learn and understand that is to pay 110 dollars.

The other thing it states that the permit is not valid without the signature, so basicly the officer let me go without the valid permit yet with the ticket, good job![/quote]

shmeli wrote:

8. (1) Where the fee prescribed by the regulations for a permit or validated permit for a motor vehicle is calculated with regard to specific limitations or restrictions on the use of a vehicle, the owner of the vehicle shall not drive or cause or permit the vehicle to be driven on a highway except in accordance with the limitations or restrictions. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 8 (1).

I was reading these lines over and over again trying to understand what fee is calculated based on what specific restrictions.

The fee that is mentioned pertains to how much the MTO will charge for validation on plates. In short it goes by weight/use of the vehicle. All the fees are located on HTA OREG 628 in schedules.

The ticket fine is set by the Ontario courts.

So, as much as the OHTA itself then?

Rename the web site

Ontario Traffic Confussion

Rules you may understand one day