I followed the procedures mentioned in the previous threads regarding the disclosure and received it today. My court date is November 5 2009 in Whitby. After going through the notes I realized 2 things: 1- the notes are horribly illegible and difficult to read 2- I have notes from two different officers. Now I am not sure if this means that both the officers will be at court for the hearing or will it suffice to have only one officer appear. THe disclosure notes for the 2nd cop provides me the notes state the following: 1800hrs On Duty 1815 hrs Test Laser Atlanta Speedlaser #02-029L OK now the notes that were provided to me jump directly to the following: 2310hrs Obsa a Beige Pot Montana - L3 ???? laser 151 1100- 227m PC Camron stopp it I w pass blank blank blank It seems as if they have not provided me with the complete disclosure. I am not sure what to say. What do you guys think of this..
I followed the procedures mentioned in the previous threads regarding the disclosure and received it today. My court date is November 5 2009 in Whitby. After going through the notes I realized 2 things:
1- the notes are horribly illegible and difficult to read
2- I have notes from two different officers.
Now I am not sure if this means that both the officers will be at court for the hearing or will it suffice to have only one officer appear.
THe disclosure notes for the 2nd cop provides me the notes state the following:
1800hrs On Duty
1815 hrs Test Laser Atlanta Speedlaser #02-029L OK
now the notes that were provided to me jump directly to the following:
2310hrs Obsa a Beige Pot Montana - L3 ????
laser 151 1100-
227m PC
Camron stopp it
I w pass
blank blank blank
It seems as if they have not provided me with the complete disclosure. I am not sure what to say. What do you guys think of this..
What I can decipher from this... (perhaps the officers on the forum can help clarify)... At 23:10 hours (11:10 PM local time), observed a beige Pontiac Montana in Lane 3, laser at a distance of 1100 to 227 metres recorded a speed reading of 151 km/h, Camron (possibly the name of the other officer) stopped it. And I don't know about the rest. If one officer took the reading and the other did the traffic stop, both will be required for court. As for disclosure, they must provide you with a copy of, or access to, the laser manual if the evidence from the device is going to be used "testimonially" in court.
What I can decipher from this... (perhaps the officers on the forum can help clarify)...
At 23:10 hours (11:10 PM local time), observed a beige Pontiac Montana in Lane 3, laser at a distance of 1100 to 227 metres recorded a speed reading of 151 km/h, Camron (possibly the name of the other officer) stopped it.
And I don't know about the rest.
If one officer took the reading and the other did the traffic stop, both will be required for court. As for disclosure, they must provide you with a copy of, or access to, the laser manual if the evidence from the device is going to be used "testimonially" in court.
that is what I would guess.....and/or 2 readings of 151km/hr (one at 1100m and the 2nd at 227m)
Radar Identified wrote:
At 23:10 hours (11:10 PM local time), observed a beige Pontiac Montana in Lane 3, laser at a distance of 1100 to 227 metres recorded a speed reading of 151 km/h, Camron (possibly the name of the other officer) stopped it..
that is what I would guess.....and/or 2 readings of 151km/hr (one at 1100m and the 2nd at 227m)
Above is merely a suggestion/thought and in no way constitutes legal advice or views of my employer. www.OHTA.ca
Is there note for testing the laser after the infraction or at the end of the shift? If not, then you can use it to question the reliability of the laser reading.
Is there note for testing the laser after the infraction or at the end of the shift? If not, then you can use it to question the reliability of the laser reading.
According to the notes provided the laser was testes at 1815hrs. I was not given any notes between 1815hrs and the time of the infraction. Additionally no mention of the test after the infraction. Now is it possible that they did not provide me with the full disclosure because I have no info abour the hours prior to the infraction and after the 1815hrs? The disclosures provided were very chopped up, as if they are covering their notes and photocopying the portions that relate to my specific event. This way I have no odea whether they had snagged someone between the hours not mentioned that will necessitate another test for my capture.
According to the notes provided the laser was testes at 1815hrs. I was not given any notes between 1815hrs and the time of the infraction. Additionally no mention of the test after the infraction. Now is it possible that they did not provide me with the full disclosure because I have no info abour the hours prior to the infraction and after the 1815hrs?
The disclosures provided were very chopped up, as if they are covering their notes and photocopying the portions that relate to my specific event. This way I have no odea whether they had snagged someone between the hours not mentioned that will necessitate another test for my capture.
that is what we do. We photo copy our notes and eliminate other investigations and incidents out. All there needs to be is a test PRIOR and AFTER the offence.
gotsnagged1st wrote:
The disclosures provided were very chopped up, as if they are covering their notes and photocopying the portions that relate to my specific event.
that is what we do. We photo copy our notes and eliminate other investigations and incidents out.
All there needs to be is a test PRIOR and AFTER the offence.
Above is merely a suggestion/thought and in no way constitutes legal advice or views of my employer. www.OHTA.ca
You get notes related to your stop and your stop only...so you get the test at the start of shift( or when ever that was) and then note related to your stop...You do not get to access to what was going on in between or after.. I test At start of shift and at the end of shift. I do not test after each stop... Here that seems to be sufficient... OPS
You get notes related to your stop and your stop only...so you get the test at the start of shift( or when ever that was) and then note related to your stop...You do not get to access to what was going on in between or after..
I test At start of shift and at the end of shift. I do not test after each stop... Here that seems to be sufficient...
No training record and no manual disclosed to you is ground for a stay application based on isufficient disclosure (s.7 charter violation). No note of testing after is a point to bring up at trial to disregard the laser reading as it was not reliable at the time. So there is a winning chance but expect rough road ahead
No training record and no manual disclosed to you is ground for a stay application based on isufficient disclosure (s.7 charter violation).
No note of testing after is a point to bring up at trial to disregard the laser reading as it was not reliable at the time.
So there is a winning chance but expect rough road ahead
Both would have to be present. Send another disclosure request specifically asking for the manual. Indicate that access to it is required for you to make a full answer and defence. See how they respond. If they continue to stonewall or don't respond... sets up a stay motion for incomplete disclosure.
gotsnagged1st wrote:
If two cops were involved at the time of the conviction, they both have to show up to court or is one cop sufficient?
Both would have to be present.
Send another disclosure request specifically asking for the manual. Indicate that access to it is required for you to make a full answer and defence. See how they respond. If they continue to stonewall or don't respond... sets up a stay motion for incomplete disclosure.
Wow these guys at the Whitby office are tough. Well I sent the send disclosure request and received a letter that stated the following I am not sure whther to send a 3rd disclosure request citing the various cases for the specific information required or just wait till the court date to talk tot he Justice?
Wow these guys at the Whitby office are tough.
Well I sent the send disclosure request and received a letter that stated the following
In response to your letter of Sep. 29 2009, please be advised that on Sept. 24th 2009 our office provided all the relvant disclosure to you by regular mail. If you feel there is further disclosure that was not provided, you may make an application to the Trial Justice for production.
I am not sure whther to send a 3rd disclosure request citing the various cases for the specific information required or just wait till the court date to talk tot he Justice?
No, just argue stay due to incomplete disclosure. They are probably rubber-stamping all disclosure requests, and send out the same information to people.
No, just argue stay due to incomplete disclosure. They are probably rubber-stamping all disclosure requests, and send out the same information to people.
"The more laws, the less justice" - Marcus Tullius Cicero
"The hardest thing to explain is the obvious"
I got ticket for failing to stop at stop sign in Toronto. i heard that the police officer must see the stop line, if there is one, from where he was sitting. That is exactly my case, Is it a strong case? If so do i need a picture to show that there is a stop line and a picture to show that he could not see the stop line from where he was sitting?
I got a ticket, Disobey stop sign, sec 136.1.a on dec 6th
I made a left in an intersection and was pulled over by a police officer in an unmarked car who had been sitting down the road. A classic fishing hole situation. I was genuinely surprised when he stopped me and told me I went through a stop sign without even slowing down. I know to shut up and be polite and take the ticket. I…
Yesterday morning, I rear-ended someone. I was going the speed limit. The sun was directly in front of me and it blinded my windshield and my eyes. At the same time, the person in front of me stopped/slowed down (also due to the sun). I started to slow down but didn't stop and I hit them since I couldn't see anything. I was not driving too close initially. I…
I was driving in the county at night and hit a limousine stretched out side ways across the road. The limo had its lights on and had side lighting as well. The police officer charged me with careless driving because it was "fully lit up".
It took me to the next day to figure out what had happened - what I remember made no sense. What I had run across was a "false visual reference" illusion.
I was on hwy 37 trying to make my girlfriends ganadmas mass and I live an hour away and I had an hour to get there so I was going fast but not 50 over untill some idiot got on my tail soo close that I was to concentrated on him that I kept going faster untill I got pulled over at 147 on an 80 km hwy.
I alreaddy lost 3 points and this time was just the…
Hello, got stopped today for rolling a stop sign. Ticket says failure to stop, but quotes hta 1361b.
Doesn't 1361b mean failure to yield?
Is this a fatal error? Or could it be amended at trial. How can I prepare a defence if I don't know if I'm defending the failure to stop or the failure to yield?
After he was providing me with a ticket for failure to obey to the stop sign (I am pretty sure I stopped but less than 3 seconds recommended by my driver ed. instructor), I know everybody say that..as an excuse.
Then he stopped me again to return the documents.
Any advice and feed back would be really appreciated.
Can you get evidence for whether someone had an advanced green at an intersection? My dad was making a right turn on a red (after stopping) into a plaza parking lot. He got hit by someone making a left turn from the opposite lane. The driver told the officer called to the collision that he had an advance green. My dad said he came out of nowhere which makes me…
So i was driving on Eglinton Avenue East near Rosemount Ave.
The school bus was on the the curb on the opposite side of the road while i was travelling on the middle lane of the three-laned Eglinton Avenue East (five lanes apart plus a raised median island seperating the traffic)
I could not see the school bus as my view of the bus was being obstructed by the cars in front of me and on my left hand…
Lots of good information on getting disclosure from the Crown here.
Now, I am just wondering if I will be relying upon evidence of my own at trial... do I have to voluntarily send this material to the Crown in a reasonable time before the trial, or only if they request disclosure from me?
This morning I had an exam for university. I was studying the entire night and i wanted to catch like maybe 1-2 hours of sleep before the exam so i went to sleep. I woke up like 5 hrs after and realize that I was about to miss my exam. I still could have made it so I asked my dad for his car since I was in a huge rush and he gave it to me.
I went on the highway and I was going at 135 km/h but…
the police officer was in in the opesite oncumming lane he was fallowing another car so close that i was not even able to see his cruser till he was buy he said that i was going 111 in a 80 he said he hade me on radar he only asked for me drivers licencs and never asked for my insurence so on the ticket there no insurence dose enyone think i can beat this i wana take it to cort becuse he was…
Hi I have a couple questions so I'll explain my situation and any advice would be appreciated.
Can't remember exact date so lets call it some time in 2008 I got a fine for $5000.00 for driving without in insurance. I never paid the fine and in 2012 I was pulled over and the officer asked to see my license. Although I had it on me I figured it would be under suspension for the unpaid fine from…
Alright, so I did something really stupid the other day, I was driving down a country road and wanted to hit the curves so I passed 3 cars at once, inadvertently making it up to very much past 50 over (80 limit)... Much to my chagrin there was a cop coming in the opposite direction who immediately skidded on the gravel shoulder and who I thought was 100% going to turn around and pull me over,…
Anyone know how backed this courthouse is? I submitted my ticket for trial at the end of August, and still no letter. Im scared it got lost in the mail, can i call the courthouse and find out my courtdate? Or would i have to go in personally?
I recently received a ticket for failure to use low beams - while following - Ticket was issued Sec 168 (
- it was on the 401 and no one was within 500 meters of me, I was warning a oncoming vehicle that there was an officer hiding (which is not illegal or I could not find a law against it) it was a police vehicle travelling at very high rate of speed in the opposite direction with no lights on…
I received a warning letter from MTO for a 2pts ticket.What happened is that the police officer issued a "unsafe left turn" and then changed the ticket to "failed to signal" at the scene, but she submitted both tickets!!! And I !!!ONLY!!! received the latter ticket from her(I requested trial for "failed to signal"). I recently received notice from MTO that I'm convicted for "unsafe left turn".
Hello everyone! I was given a ticket for using a hand-held communication device while driving. It was 3 am, I was at a stop light and the cop saw me with the my phone in my hand. I told him i was just checking the time on it. I received the notes a few weeks ago ill copy them down below. Any help is appreciated although i believe there's no hope for me. The cop recorded me saying what phone i…
I got pulled over about 15 or so days ago the court till this date has not received the summons what is the legal time period that the court has to follow to accept the summons from the office court says its 15 days is the legal timeframe the officer has to serve it on the court
I requested for disclosure of information two months ago.
I received the radar manual after one month, but not others (including maintenance/calibration record of the radar, certificate of police training). On further pursuit, the prosecutor told me that he did not have them and he did not see why I needed these documents. He said he did not know where to get them when I asked.
Last Friday I was pulled over by an OPP motorcycle cop who informed me I was going 134. I was on the SB 404, I did see him parked under a bridge and when I passed him he was not on his bike.
I'm hoping to get some insight for a defense in this case.
I was in lane 1 and I had a car in front of me, and a car behind me, also there was a car speeding down Lane 3 passing everyone and moved quickly into…
