So I got a ticket I plan on fighting i think. They ticket is $325 at the intersection of 9th line and 10th Side road Georgetown ON. I havent seen the picture yet but my parents told me in came in. The light had already been red fir 16.9 seconds before I went through!! Now Im thinking the Camera was not functioning properly because 16.9sec in that speed zone is TONS of time for stopping. Like, Im thinking to myself...16.9sec to stop and I went through?? With the way I drive I find it hard to believe and plan to fight it but are looking for input on possible defenses aside from a camera that wasnt functioning correctly. Anyone else ever see a ticket where the light was red already for that long and you went through? The date it said this happened was Dec 29, 2014. Thanks, help help is appreciated.
So I got a ticket I plan on fighting i think. They ticket is $325 at the intersection of 9th line and 10th Side road Georgetown ON. I havent seen the picture yet but my parents told me in came in. The light had already been red fir 16.9 seconds before I went through!! Now Im thinking the Camera was not functioning properly because 16.9sec in that speed zone is TONS of time for stopping. Like, Im thinking to myself...16.9sec to stop and I went through?? With the way I drive I find it hard to believe and plan to fight it but are looking for input on possible defenses aside from a camera that wasnt functioning correctly. Anyone else ever see a ticket where the light was red already for that long and you went through?
The ticket will have all the information you need. Perhaps you should look over the ticket first. It'll usually have a picture of your vehicle behind the line while the light is red and in the intersection while the light is red. It'll also have a picture of your plate. I don't know why you went through the intersection without stopping, but just because it's been red for nearly 17 seconds doesn't prove you're innocent. It's quite a normal occurrence. Maybe you were daydreaming or maybe you made a right turn without stopping. The ticket will help narrow down the possibilities and show you the circumstances. They are verified by an officer before they are sent out. Red light camera tickets don't have an impact insurance. They are not worth fighting 99.9% of the time because they are pretty clear cut and you don't have to worry about your premiums going up. Unless there's something extraordinary going in the photos, you're not going to get very far. Try to get it reduced, save some cash, and call it a day. This ticket isn't going to haunt you. Once it's paid, you'll never hear about it again.
The ticket will have all the information you need. Perhaps you should look over the ticket first.
It'll usually have a picture of your vehicle behind the line while the light is red and in the intersection while the light is red. It'll also have a picture of your plate. I don't know why you went through the intersection without stopping, but just because it's been red for nearly 17 seconds doesn't prove you're innocent. It's quite a normal occurrence. Maybe you were daydreaming or maybe you made a right turn without stopping. The ticket will help narrow down the possibilities and show you the circumstances. They are verified by an officer before they are sent out.
Red light camera tickets don't have an impact insurance. They are not worth fighting 99.9% of the time because they are pretty clear cut and you don't have to worry about your premiums going up. Unless there's something extraordinary going in the photos, you're not going to get very far. Try to get it reduced, save some cash, and call it a day. This ticket isn't going to haunt you. Once it's paid, you'll never hear about it again.
I realize that but the fact that it says the light was red for 16.9sec before i went through it seems like a VERY long time and I just dont buy it. Thats what gets me to think it was not working correctly because I would have stopped with that amount of time because it "should" be safe to do so. The only reason I can think of going through was because of the weather and it wasnt safe to stop but again...if the light was already red for 16.9 sec before I went through it and the weather was indeed bad I would have stopped.I guess I will just have to wait and see the pics when I get home.
Stanton wrote:
The photograph should clearly show if the light was red or not. Your defence options are pretty limited if the camera was working.
I realize that but the fact that it says the light was red for 16.9sec before i went through it seems like a VERY long time and I just dont buy it. Thats what gets me to think it was not working correctly because I would have stopped with that amount of time because it "should" be safe to do so. The only reason I can think of going through was because of the weather and it wasnt safe to stop but again...if the light was already red for 16.9 sec before I went through it and the weather was indeed bad I would have stopped.I guess I will just have to wait and see the pics when I get home.
True enough, Im aiming to have it reduced, its just to me, 16.9sec is a lot of time to stop and thats where I think the camera may be faulty but you're right. i need to look at the picture first.
bend wrote:
The ticket will have all the information you need. Perhaps you should look over the ticket first.
It'll usually have a picture of your vehicle behind the line while the light is red and in the intersection while the light is red. It'll also have a picture of your plate. I don't know why you went through the intersection without stopping, but just because it's been red for nearly 17 seconds doesn't prove you're innocent. It's quite a normal occurrence. Maybe you were daydreaming or maybe you made a right turn without stopping. The ticket will help narrow down the possibilities and show you the circumstances. They are verified by an officer before they are sent out.
Red light camera tickets don't have an impact insurance. They are not worth fighting 99.9% of the time because they are pretty clear cut and you don't have to worry about your premiums going up. Unless there's something extraordinary going in the photos, you're not going to get very far. Try to get it reduced, save some cash, and call it a day. This ticket isn't going to haunt you. Once it's paid, you'll never hear about it again.
True enough, Im aiming to have it reduced, its just to me, 16.9sec is a lot of time to stop and thats where I think the camera may be faulty but you're right. i need to look at the picture first.
If the light was red for 17s, then you most likely weren't paying attention or you're one of those drivers that lead light? I see people edge into to the intersection against a red in anticipation for a green.
If the light was red for 17s, then you most likely weren't paying attention or you're one of those drivers that lead light? I see people edge into to the intersection against a red in anticipation for a green.
A red light being red for 17sec is a HUGE time frame and I know the kind of driver I am and i just dont see that happening with how I drive is what Im saying. Unless it was unsafe to stop I dont see a reason why I would go through it. Im not one of those drivers that races around trying to get somewhere in a hurry.
iFly55 wrote:
If the light was red for 17s, then you most likely weren't paying attention or you're one of those drivers that lead light? I see people edge into to the intersection against a red in anticipation for a green.
A red light being red for 17sec is a HUGE time frame and I know the kind of driver I am and i just dont see that happening with how I drive is what Im saying. Unless it was unsafe to stop I dont see a reason why I would go through it. Im not one of those drivers that races around trying to get somewhere in a hurry.
Right now we are all just speculating, we will know more once you have looked at the ticket. Feel free to post a scanned copy of the ticket here, with your personal information blocked out, and then we can comment further on what seems to be going on.
Right now we are all just speculating, we will know more once you have looked at the ticket. Feel free to post a scanned copy of the ticket here, with your personal information blocked out, and then we can comment further on what seems to be going on.
Well, I dont know what to say...the light was red for 15sec already and Im not sure what the hell happened. Pics posted but looks like I pulled a houdini...now you see me now you dont. Looks like I'll just pay it unless anyone has any insight or thoughts. Not sure even if I might have turned right on that day (from the center lane which is an improper lane change) but whatever the case.
Well, I dont know what to say...the light was red for 15sec already and Im not sure what the hell happened. Pics posted but looks like I pulled a houdini...now you see me now you dont. Looks like I'll just pay it unless anyone has any insight or thoughts. Not sure even if I might have turned right on that day (from the center lane which is an improper lane change) but whatever the case.
So I had a sleep on it trying to remember what I did that day and I actually turned right. I remember cause I was on my way to a date lol and there was a gas station quicker in that direction. Doubt it makes a difference. Should I say anything about it? Like prove I went through the lights opposed to going right?
So I had a sleep on it trying to remember what I did that day and I actually turned right. I remember cause I was on my way to a date lol and there was a gas station quicker in that direction. Doubt it makes a difference. Should I say anything about it? Like prove I went through the lights opposed to going right?
They don't have to prove you went straight. You either stopped or you didn't. Going right doesn't negate your responsibility to stop before making that turn on a red. You have to stop either way. You didn't stop. You didn't even come close to stopping. You were traveling at 31km when you were on the line. One second later and your car is gone. This is not going to do anything to your driving record and/or affect the other drivers under the insurance policy. You got to pick your battles. This isn't really one of them. They don't know who is driving, therefore the conviction can't be assign to a license. The fine goes against the plates. If you ignore the fine, you can't renew your plates until you pay. That's all. This piece of paper they sent you has has everything they need to convict you and then some. Go to the courthouse and try to have it reduced. You'll probably end up paying something like $150 versus $325. Go through a trial and you'll pay the full fine, especially with these defenses you're putting out there.
Pardy wrote:
Like prove I went through the lights opposed to going right?
They don't have to prove you went straight. You either stopped or you didn't. Going right doesn't negate your responsibility to stop before making that turn on a red. You have to stop either way.
You didn't stop. You didn't even come close to stopping. You were traveling at 31km when you were on the line. One second later and your car is gone.
This is not going to do anything to your driving record and/or affect the other drivers under the insurance policy. You got to pick your battles. This isn't really one of them. They don't know who is driving, therefore the conviction can't be assign to a license. The fine goes against the plates. If you ignore the fine, you can't renew your plates until you pay. That's all. This piece of paper they sent you has has everything they need to convict you and then some. Go to the courthouse and try to have it reduced. You'll probably end up paying something like $150 versus $325. Go through a trial and you'll pay the full fine, especially with these defenses you're putting out there.
They don't have to prove you went straight. You either stopped or you didn't. Going right doesn't negate your responsibility to stop before making that turn on a red. You have to stop either way. You didn't stop. You didn't even come close to stopping. You were traveling at 31km when you were on the line. One second later and your car is gone. This is not going to do anything to your driving record and/or affect the other drivers under the insurance policy. You got to pick your battles. This isn't really one of them. They don't know who is driving, therefore the conviction can't be assign to a license. The fine goes against the plates. If you ignore the fine, you can't renew your plates until you pay. That's all. This piece of paper they sent you has has everything they need to convict you and then some. Go to the courthouse and try to have it reduced. You'll probably end up paying something like $150 versus $325. Go through a trial and you'll pay the full fine, especially with these defenses you're putting out there. Fair enough, Im just saying in other photos I've seen of red light tickets I see the cars in the intersection, I dont know why they wouldnt show mine there too. I was also reading but again, Im no lawyer but for the sake of asking it, couldnt I ask for them to prove that the camera was in proper working order during the day of the offense? Just curious.
bend wrote:
Pardy wrote:
Like prove I went through the lights opposed to going right?
They don't have to prove you went straight. You either stopped or you didn't. Going right doesn't negate your responsibility to stop before making that turn on a red. You have to stop either way.
You didn't stop. You didn't even come close to stopping. You were traveling at 31km when you were on the line. One second later and your car is gone.
This is not going to do anything to your driving record and/or affect the other drivers under the insurance policy. You got to pick your battles. This isn't really one of them. They don't know who is driving, therefore the conviction can't be assign to a license. The fine goes against the plates. If you ignore the fine, you can't renew your plates until you pay. That's all. This piece of paper they sent you has has everything they need to convict you and then some. Go to the courthouse and try to have it reduced. You'll probably end up paying something like $150 versus $325. Go through a trial and you'll pay the full fine, especially with these defenses you're putting out there.
Fair enough, Im just saying in other photos I've seen of red light tickets I see the cars in the intersection, I dont know why they wouldnt show mine there too. I was also reading but again, Im no lawyer but for the sake of asking it, couldnt I ask for them to prove that the camera was in proper working order during the day of the offense? Just curious.
It's common for these tickets to show very little of a vehicle if the offense was committed while making a right turn. It's just the nature of making an immediate turn versus continuing straight. You can ask for whatever you want, but it doesn't mean it will be provided. Generally, all you're going to get of any value is a certificate of ownership for the vehicle in question and enlarged photos. They will be the same photos from your ticket. There's nothing in the photos to suggest the camera had been malfunctioning. All the information provided is consistent with the photos. Since you're pretty adamant about proving your innocence, you will want to request a trial. From there you'll receive a notice of trial. At that point you can request disclosure for all the relevant information concerning your case. You'll obviously have to do this alone because no honest paralegal will take your case or recommend you pay money to defend a red light camera ticket.
Pardy wrote:
Fair enough, Im just saying in other photos I've seen of red light tickets I see the cars in the intersection, I dont know why they wouldnt show mine there too.
It's common for these tickets to show very little of a vehicle if the offense was committed while making a right turn. It's just the nature of making an immediate turn versus continuing straight.
Pardy wrote:
I was also reading but again, Im no lawyer but for the sake of asking it, couldnt I ask for them to prove that the camera was in proper working order during the day of the offense? Just curious.
You can ask for whatever you want, but it doesn't mean it will be provided.
Generally, all you're going to get of any value is a certificate of ownership for the vehicle in question and enlarged photos. They will be the same photos from your ticket.
There's nothing in the photos to suggest the camera had been malfunctioning. All the information provided is consistent with the photos.
Since you're pretty adamant about proving your innocence, you will want to request a trial. From there you'll receive a notice of trial. At that point you can request disclosure for all the relevant information concerning your case. You'll obviously have to do this alone because no honest paralegal will take your case or recommend you pay money to defend a red light camera ticket.
Actually, in that offence, the onus is on YOU to provide 'evidence to the contrary' that the vehicle didn't run the red light; not the other way around! They don't have to prove the camera system was working. The mere production of the photos certified by a POA officer is enough proof. Read section 205.15, especially subsection 3 and 4(b). So, if you want to raise doubts as to whether the camera system was working, YOU need to present some evidence to justify that; not the other way around. Speculations are not enough. By the way, going through the red after 17 seconds is not really that extraordinary. I've seen tickets with over 40 seconds and going much faster; some turning right and many proceeding straight through! You'd be surprised how common the 10-20 second range can be! In reading your post, its actually quite funny to see your progression from outright disbelief and denial that this could have happened, to your later recollection of when it did happen and how it happened, to your attempt to find any perceived loophole to walk away. As all of said thus far, I wouldn't waste too much time on this (especially since you know you did it)----I would just negotiate a lower price, plead guilty and move on. There are no consequences other than paying money. After all, if you go to trial, you'll likely just be convicted anyway and just end up paying more. Then again, the time and money is yours to spend and the public coffers could use all the help they can get! :)
Pardy wrote:
... couldnt I ask for them to prove that the camera was in proper working order during the day of the offense?...
Actually, in that offence, the onus is on YOU to provide 'evidence to the contrary' that the vehicle didn't run the red light; not the other way around! They don't have to prove the camera system was working. The mere production of the photos certified by a POA officer is enough proof. Read section 205.15, especially subsection 3 and 4(b).
So, if you want to raise doubts as to whether the camera system was working, YOU need to present some evidence to justify that; not the other way around. Speculations are not enough.
By the way, going through the red after 17 seconds is not really that extraordinary. I've seen tickets with over 40 seconds and going much faster; some turning right and many proceeding straight through! You'd be surprised how common the 10-20 second range can be!
In reading your post, its actually quite funny to see your progression from outright disbelief and denial that this could have happened, to your later recollection of when it did happen and how it happened, to your attempt to find any perceived loophole to walk away. As all of said thus far, I wouldn't waste too much time on this (especially since you know you did it)----I would just negotiate a lower price, plead guilty and move on. There are no consequences other than paying money. After all, if you go to trial, you'll likely just be convicted anyway and just end up paying more. Then again, the time and money is yours to spend and the public coffers could use all the help they can get!
Actually, in that offence, the onus is on YOU to provide 'evidence to the contrary' that the vehicle didn't run the red light; not the other way around! They don't have to prove the camera system was working. The mere production of the photos certified by a POA officer is enough proof. Read section 205.15, especially subsection 3 and 4(b). So, if you want to raise doubts as to whether the camera system was working, YOU need to present some evidence to justify that; not the other way around. Speculations are not enough. By the way, going through the red after 17 seconds is not really that extraordinary. I've seen tickets with over 40 seconds and going much faster; some turning right and many proceeding straight through! You'd be surprised how common the 10-20 second range can be! In reading your post, its actually quite funny to see your progression from outright disbelief and denial that this could have happened, to your later recollection of when it did happen and how it happened, to your attempt to find any perceived loophole to walk away. As all of said thus far, I wouldn't waste too much time on this (especially since you know you did it)----I would just negotiate a lower price, plead guilty and move on. There are no consequences other than paying money. After all, if you go to trial, you'll likely just be convicted anyway and just end up paying more. Then again, the time and money is yours to spend and the public coffers could use all the help they can get! :) Thanks but I know for a fact I turned right at the light that day at that time and that light so what I "know" is, it was an illegal lane change. And yes, it did take some time to recollect what I did that day once I checked the calendar etc. If the camera had shown my car in the intersection is one thing but to show me on the line and then gone proves to me nothing. Either way there is no point in fighting as I hear it can be quite time consuming so I'll just pay it off. Thread can also be closed. Thank you everyone for your advice, knowledge and experience.
highwaystar wrote:
Pardy wrote:
... couldnt I ask for them to prove that the camera was in proper working order during the day of the offense?...
Actually, in that offence, the onus is on YOU to provide 'evidence to the contrary' that the vehicle didn't run the red light; not the other way around! They don't have to prove the camera system was working. The mere production of the photos certified by a POA officer is enough proof. Read section 205.15, especially subsection 3 and 4(b).
So, if you want to raise doubts as to whether the camera system was working, YOU need to present some evidence to justify that; not the other way around. Speculations are not enough.
By the way, going through the red after 17 seconds is not really that extraordinary. I've seen tickets with over 40 seconds and going much faster; some turning right and many proceeding straight through! You'd be surprised how common the 10-20 second range can be!
In reading your post, its actually quite funny to see your progression from outright disbelief and denial that this could have happened, to your later recollection of when it did happen and how it happened, to your attempt to find any perceived loophole to walk away. As all of said thus far, I wouldn't waste too much time on this (especially since you know you did it)----I would just negotiate a lower price, plead guilty and move on. There are no consequences other than paying money. After all, if you go to trial, you'll likely just be convicted anyway and just end up paying more. Then again, the time and money is yours to spend and the public coffers could use all the help they can get!
Thanks but I know for a fact I turned right at the light that day at that time and that light so what I "know" is, it was an illegal lane change. And yes, it did take some time to recollect what I did that day once I checked the calendar etc. If the camera had shown my car in the intersection is one thing but to show me on the line and then gone proves to me nothing. Either way there is no point in fighting as I hear it can be quite time consuming so I'll just pay it off.
Thread can also be closed. Thank you everyone for your advice, knowledge and experience.
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