Recently, I got a ticket for disobey sign. (Fail to yield left turn traffic on a green light). When I got pull over, I cannot find my permit and insurance paper which I got another 2 tickets for. But when I got home, I found that my wife put the permit and insurance paper inside her sun glass case (in the car) :( which I had not search. I decided I will pea not guilty on these 2 cases. I know the first ticket will be hard for me to fight even I just move to area. But since I am going to the court anyway. Should I pea not guilty to the disobey sign too? Thanks
Recently, I got a ticket for disobey sign. (Fail to yield left turn traffic on a green light).
When I got pull over, I cannot find my permit and insurance paper which I got another 2 tickets for.
But when I got home, I found that my wife put the permit and insurance paper inside her sun glass case (in the car) which I had not search.
I decided I will pea not guilty on these 2 cases.
I know the first ticket will be hard for me to fight even I just move to area.
But since I am going to the court anyway. Should I pea not guilty to the disobey sign too?
Were you charged with failure to surrender the permit and the insurance? If so, going in and saying "but I had them in the car" is not good enough; you need to give them to the officer when you are stopped. There is a chance the Prosecutor may withdraw one of the charges, but that all depends on how generous the Prosecutor is feeling that day.
jetpack wrote:
But when I got home, I found that my wife put the permit and insurance paper inside her sun glass case (in the car)
Were you charged with failure to surrender the permit and the insurance? If so, going in and saying "but I had them in the car" is not good enough; you need to give them to the officer when you are stopped. There is a chance the Prosecutor may withdraw one of the charges, but that all depends on how generous the Prosecutor is feeling that day.
* The above is NOT legal advice. By acting on anything I have said, you assume responsibility for any outcome and consequences. *
http://www.OntarioTicket.com OR http://www.OHTA.ca
Yes, I got charged for "failure to surrender the permit and the insurance" But should still try and hope for the best. Is it best for me to just pea guilty on the "disobey sign" ticket then? Thanks.
Yes, I got charged for "failure to surrender the permit and the insurance"
But should still try and hope for the best.
Is it best for me to just pea guilty on the "disobey sign" ticket then?
I would choose NOT GUILTY on all three of them and ask for a trial with the officer present. Once you get your notice of trial, you then want to ask for disclosure (copy of officers notes). Once you get the notes, then you can decide better how to proceed. Probably you could do this: Ask for a meeting with prosecutor before the trial date. Take your insurance and registration with you to the meeting. Do NOT tell them you are going to plead guilty to the disobey sign charge. Do not even mention this charge. I say again, do not even mention this charge. Start with your sob story about the insurance and registration being in your wife's sun glasses case and show the prosecutor that you have them both and they are valid and that they were also valid at the time you were pulled over. Maybe, if the prosecutor is in a good mood, they might (no guarantees) offer you some kind of plea deal like "plead guilty to disobey and I will drop the other two". Sometimes prosecutors are more likely to drop the "paperwork" charges if you plead to the real charge. Again, no guarantees, but that is what I would do!
I would choose NOT GUILTY on all three of them and ask for a trial with the officer present. Once you get your notice of trial, you then want to ask for disclosure (copy of officers notes).
Once you get the notes, then you can decide better how to proceed.
Probably you could do this:
Ask for a meeting with prosecutor before the trial date.
Take your insurance and registration with you to the meeting.
Do NOT tell them you are going to plead guilty to the disobey sign charge. Do not even mention this charge. I say again, do not even mention this charge.
Start with your sob story about the insurance and registration being in your wife's sun glasses case and show the prosecutor that you have them both and they are valid and that they were also valid at the time you were pulled over.
Maybe, if the prosecutor is in a good mood, they might (no guarantees) offer you some kind of plea deal like "plead guilty to disobey and I will drop the other two".
Sometimes prosecutors are more likely to drop the "paperwork" charges if you plead to the real charge.
Again, no guarantees, but that is what I would do!
"Do NOT tell them you are going to plead guilty to the disobey sign charge. Do not even mention this charge. I say again, do not even mention this charge". Really? It's not like the prosecutor doesn't know about it...The prosecutor will be looking at the total package, they know that charge exists, you can't hide it...Your driving record will likely determine what kind of deal you will get. Disobey sign is 2 points, the other two are no points. Perhaps take a stab at pleading guilty to the two paper charges and dropping the disobey sign.
"Do NOT tell them you are going to plead guilty to the disobey sign charge. Do not even mention this charge. I say again, do not even mention this charge".
Really? It's not like the prosecutor doesn't know about it...The prosecutor will be looking at the total package, they know that charge exists, you can't hide it...Your driving record will likely determine what kind of deal you will get. Disobey sign is 2 points, the other two are no points. Perhaps take a stab at pleading guilty to the two paper charges and dropping the disobey sign.
@screech - You mis-understand... perhaps I did not explain what I meant very well... the prosecutor will absolutely be aware of the charge, but you don't want to tell him up front you plan on pleading guilty to it. Just deal with the two other charges and then let him make the offer. If he knows you are going to plead guilty to the first one BEFORE he offered to drop the other ones then he might be less likely to drop them.
@screech - You mis-understand... perhaps I did not explain what I meant very well... the prosecutor will absolutely be aware of the charge, but you don't want to tell him up front you plan on pleading guilty to it. Just deal with the two other charges and then let him make the offer. If he knows you are going to plead guilty to the first one BEFORE he offered to drop the other ones then he might be less likely to drop them.
So are you suggesting the person plays lets make a deal on the two paper charges first? Ok, so now the prosecutor says, you plead guilty to one, I will withdraw the other. Now you have to big ticket to deal with...What are you wanting to do with the big ticket Sir? Make a deal? No, there is no bargaining power now, the deal has been made on the other two charges, you have nothing left to do other than pay it or go to trial on it...The prosecutor won't just ignore the big ticket and only focus on the two paper charges. Prosecutors are motivated to make the deals to help get through the docket quicker. The prosecutor will look at the whole case, all 3 charges, that is where your bargaining strength is. Like I said, take a stab at pleading to the 2 paper charges and withdraw the big one...ya don't shoot, ya don't score...
So are you suggesting the person plays lets make a deal on the two paper charges first? Ok, so now the prosecutor says, you plead guilty to one, I will withdraw the other. Now you have to big ticket to deal with...What are you wanting to do with the big ticket Sir? Make a deal? No, there is no bargaining power now, the deal has been made on the other two charges, you have nothing left to do other than pay it or go to trial on it...The prosecutor won't just ignore the big ticket and only focus on the two paper charges. Prosecutors are motivated to make the deals to help get through the docket quicker. The prosecutor will look at the whole case, all 3 charges, that is where your bargaining strength is. Like I said, take a stab at pleading to the 2 paper charges and withdraw the big one...ya don't shoot, ya don't score...
@screech - what you said is exactly what I meant. I am just saying don't walk in the door and say "I am going to plead guilty to this one. What about these two?"
@screech - what you said is exactly what I meant.
I am just saying don't walk in the door and say "I am going to plead guilty to this one. What about these two?"
And I certainly wouldn't take the 2 paper tickets over the moving violation ticket. Points mean nothing unless you are a habitual offender - it's all about the insurance and I'd rather have 1 ticket than 2. They don't care what they are for.
And I certainly wouldn't take the 2 paper tickets over the moving violation ticket. Points mean nothing unless you are a habitual offender - it's all about the insurance and I'd rather have 1 ticket than 2. They don't care what they are for.
Former Ontario Police Officer. Advice will become less relevant as the time goes by !
Agreed with argyll. All three of these fall under the minor conviction category with your insurance provider. They are assessed the same surcharge percentage. Your insurance provider may not charge you for the first conviction, but they'd certainly charge you for the second. If they charge you for the first, then the surcharge percentage increases (eg. 5% first offense, 10% second). So while 2 tickets are just "paper tickets" and the other is the "big one", they really aren't. To your insurance company, they are the same. In this case, it's certainly better to come out with one conviction rather than 2.
screeech wrote:
Like I said, take a stab at pleading to the 2 paper charges and withdraw the big one...ya don't shoot, ya don't score...
argyll wrote:
And I certainly wouldn't take the 2 paper tickets over the moving violation ticket. Points mean nothing unless you are a habitual offender - it's all about the insurance and I'd rather have 1 ticket than 2. They don't care what they are for.
Agreed with argyll.
All three of these fall under the minor conviction category with your insurance provider. They are assessed the same surcharge percentage. Your insurance provider may not charge you for the first conviction, but they'd certainly charge you for the second. If they charge you for the first, then the surcharge percentage increases (eg. 5% first offense, 10% second). So while 2 tickets are just "paper tickets" and the other is the "big one", they really aren't. To your insurance company, they are the same. In this case, it's certainly better to come out with one conviction rather than 2.
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