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Ontario Highway Traffic Act

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149km/h in a 100km/h Zone
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 12:21 pm 
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I was just stopped yesterday by a cruiser on the side of a split highway at 9:35pm. I realized I was speeding at around 140km/h (passenger seat agreed) and when I saw the cruiser in front of me I hit the breaks to slow down to 100km/h. As soon as I was near parallel to him (two lanes) he put on the flashers and pulled me over.

The officer told me that he had me clocked in at 149km/h then 150km/h then 149km/h jumping back and forth and let me know all of the charges I would face with driving at 150km/h. The officer later came back and gave me a ticket for speeding 149km/h in a 150km/h zone. He made it clear to me that he was giving me a break by not impounding my car and laying charges for stunt driving. I didn't argue with the officers accusation at all and just let him know that I did not know I was going 150km/h and thought I was traveling between 135km/h and 140km/h.

Here's a picture of the ticket (the units for the speeds aren't clearly written):

REMOVED

Is there anyway I can fight this? I currently am 18 and attending university next year as a student. I do not currently have a job and have no money to even pay this fine.

I've only received one ticket before this for doing a u-turn and went to court for the ticket with no success.

From my research, the only possibilities of getting this ticket waived is by scheduling a court date and hoping that the officer doesn't show up. If the officer does show up, I have no case as of now.

Any help is much appreciated!


Last edited by murray732 on Mon Nov 30, 2009 5:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 12:45 pm 
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Your mistake was speeding, your bigger mistake was admitting to the cop you were speeding. The help anybody can give now is very limited.
The only hope of beating the ticket is for him not showing up at trial.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 1:03 pm 
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If there's no way to beat the ticket, is there any way to get the cost reduced? Am I able to speak to a judge one and one to explain my I realized my faults, and have no intention of doing it again, and then explain my financial situation?

I would preferably like to schedule a trial to take my chances of the officer not showing up. If the officer does show up then I'd like to try and just get the ticket reduced reasonably.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 1:28 pm 
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You can try to negotiate with the prosecutor down to 15 over. Have a good sob story ready ;)
read http://www.ticketcombat.com

If you have insurance concerns, you may wish to read:
http://www.ontariohighwaytrafficact.com/topic911.html?highlight=insurance

HEY! This ticket just suddenly made me realize that Sec. 172 (50-over) is a bad thing! I mean, here we have 49-over costing $359. But just one more lousy klic and it's about $4,000 in expenses plus a loss of lisence for a week. (and a blurb in the local paper around these parts)

Under this logic, if a guy shoots someone 49 times in the chest, he would get a few years in jail. But if he shoots just one more bullet, he would be immediately executed!


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 2:02 pm 
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Speedometers aren't accurate, especially at speeds of ~140 km/h. Not completely sure, but I think SAE-spec cars (North American and most imports) are allowed +/- 10%, while E-code cars are allowed +5% (some European imports).

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 2:35 pm 
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Squishy wrote:
Speedometers aren't accurate, especially at speeds of ~140 km/h. Not completely sure, but I think SAE-spec cars (North American and most imports) are allowed +/- 10%, while E-code cars are allowed +5% (some European imports).


When the car is produced it is allowed to read plus but not minus, otherwise the car manufacturer is at fault, tsk, tsk.

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http://www.OHTA.ca OR http://www.OntarioTrafficAct.com


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 2:55 pm 
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Only for E-code standards. SAE allows the speedometer to read minus, though most manufacturers have their in-house tolerances.

EDIT: I was partly wrong. I dug up an old post of mine and got the numbers: SAE allows +/-5% (SAE Recommended Practice J1226) and EC allows +10% (ECR-39).

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 7:32 pm 
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Plea-bargaining could definitely work, as Bookm says. You're preparing to attend university, don't have a job and are trying to save money and made a "youthful mistake." Tell that to the Prosecutor and that you're sorry and you've learned your lesson, and you really don't want to drag this whole thing into court and go through a trial, and you're trying to save the Crown's time. At least, that would be what I would say if I were in your shoes. Saves a BIG headache from going to trial. Hopefully you won't get an angry, aggressive-confrontational Prosecutor. Most of them aren't, though. Plea-bargaining gives you a quick resolution. It's also better than going before a Justice with a "plead guilty with an explanation." Some insurers treat anything 45 km/h or more over the speed limit as a major infraction, even if the Justice lowers the fine, the big cost is the insurance!

That said, do you want to try to fight this all the way or is plea-bargaining something you'd prefer?


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 2:11 pm 
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How do you plea bargaining? I don't see that as any of the options on my ticket.

I've read through TicketCombat the past two days and have learned a lot, and will also go watch a few trials weekly to make sure i'm solid if I do decide to fight this.

If me saying I thought I was going 35 over is in the officer's notes then I don't have much of a defence in court except to denie that I made that statement (also illegal am i right?). I could try and force a "voir dire" by saying that the officer threatened me into making this statement by threatening to impound my car saying I was going 50 over. That's about it, and I'm not sure if that will even hold since i'm not experienced in this.

I live in a small town (North Bay) so I assume the courts are pretty quick with few traffic violations. I don't think it would be possible to delay the trial for 18 months to argue my rights were violated.

If I could plea to bargain and get the ticket scratched, or even knocked down to 15 over I would be happy. Anything less I would rather take this to trial.

And a few questions:
Is it possible to plea to bargain the day of trial? (Just incase the officer doesn't show up)
If I apply for a stay, how long is that stay in motion for?

Thanks everyone!


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 2:58 pm 
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My own recent experience:

- make photo copy of both sides of ticket for your records.
- Plead Not Guilty on ticket (check off "officer present for questioning")
- take ticket (or registered mail) to court address as shown on ticket
- lay on couch and watch TV for several weeks until court date arrives in mail.
- print out disclosure request as downloaded from internet
(I use this one http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/333/disclosure.jpg)
- Fill in blanks and fax or registered mail it back to same court address.
- Return to couch and wait several weeks for Disclosure package to arrive in mail.

In my case, a form came in the disclosure package with a written plea bargain offered by the prosecutor. I have to attend on my trial date and have the option at that time to accept his offer, make a counter offer, or reject the offer and go to trial. This all happens right before court opens for the day, so be there early enough to speak with him first. If you both work out a deal, you stand before the JP and the prosecutor withdraws the original charge and replaces it with the "agreed to" charge. You plead guilty to THAT charge when the JP asks, and you go pay at the clerks office and be on your way (back to couch).


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 3:22 pm 
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I'm definitly leaning towards taking this to court unless I can get it reduced to a charge of 15 over. The only two reasons I wouldn't want to take this to court is:

1) Have the officer amend the charge back to stunt driving
2) Losing the trial and not receiving a plea-bargain

How likely is it that those occur?

Also, knowing that i'm 18, do you think that they would be less likely to offer me a plea-bargain and more likely to let me defend myself in court?


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 4:16 pm 
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murray732 wrote:
1) Have the officer amend the charge back to stunt driving


Not going to happen.

murray732 wrote:
2) Losing the trial and not receiving a plea-bargain


Likely. Your admission to guilt at roadside is very difficult to overcome. A pleasant attitude towards the prosecutor before court (and a convincingly sad story to him) and you just MIGHT get that 15-over deal worked out.

murray732 wrote:
Also, knowing that i'm 18, do you think that they would be less likely to...


18-Shmanteen. Good manners work at any age. Allow just the tiniest hint of disrespect or arrogance to slip out your mouth and they'll eat you alive!


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2009 1:31 pm 
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Alright so it seems my best bet is to plea-bargain. I luckily bumped into an old police officer on my friend's boat yesterday who worked with the crown-attourney and even he told me to file a court date, ask for disclosure, and then plea-bargain it down to 15 or 20 over.

Just a few questions:

Is plea-bargaining something I can request, or something they offer?
If it is requestable, where do I do that?

I vaguely remember the police officer on the boat telling me to go to the crown-attourney's office to talk with her, is this where I go to plea-bargain?


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2009 8:25 pm 
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The plea bargain usually takes place 15 mins before the JP enters the court room and during the break.
In many cases the Crown will offer a lower charge, if the Crown does not you can initiate the plea bargain. Don't forget to check for the cop's presence before taking the Crown's offer.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 1:07 pm 
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Alright thank you everyone! I now have all of the information I need to fight this ticket.


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