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Ontario Highway Traffic Act

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 12:41 pm 
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Ouch! (It was the "sobbing" comment, wasn't it)


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 1:08 pm 
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Bookm wrote:
Ouch! (It was the "sobbing" comment, wasn't it)


well I gotta have fun at "ME".....you had fun with "COP" ....so it's not as big of an ouch as one might think :wink: more of a "prick" :lol: :lol: :lol:

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 4:22 pm 
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hwybear wrote:
Bookm wrote:
Ouch! (It was the "sobbing" comment, wasn't it)


well I gotta have fun at "ME".....you had fun with "COP" ....so it's not as big of an ouch as one might think :wink: more of a "prick" :lol: :lol: :lol:


Now a moderator and being a "prick"..... :D
<<<<<<<<<<<<
Next thing you know all posts except for 'bears will be gone....... :shock:



edit: where did that sentence in the middle go???? Bear stop it.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 7:17 pm 
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Hahahahahahaha

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 9:00 pm 
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Well bookm in response to your post.

Now let's say this is a 2 lane highway and you guys are the only 2 cars plus the officer.

In that case he would check the speed of both vehicles. Sure it may not " be vehicle specific: and he can not be 100 % sure its you but what he can do is check the speed of your vehicle (faster one) and the speed of the vehicle you are passing (slower one).

This would be possible with Genesis 2 or the Stalker i beleive. He can do this in motion. He could definitely get both vehicles speed by being directly behind them.

While this guys ticket was very un lucky and perhaps a not so nice officer he can definitely get that.

Now if this was a 3 lane highway with lots of traffic and he was on the side of the road that may be different.

But when they get you for speeding while they are moving that is always radar and they would have to be in front of behind of your car.

I am not 100 % sure but after reading lots upon radar/lidar in the past this seems to be.

Radar is not vehicle specific but i dont think it is like that. It sure as hell isnt as good as lidar where they target your car and get a exact reading.

Here is a youtube video of a office using a radar unit.



Watch when he is on the highway. If this is the case i put no faith into it.

Maybee where hwybear patrols in Chatam where it is only 2 lanes and light traffic.

But in and around toronto this is unfair.

I mean lets say you have a group of multiple cars on the road. They are all exceeding the speed limit and getting to close. This is common in the GTA. Youll have cars racing up 130-140 only to get stopped by someone slower in the left lane.

Now when the road is packed with all cars slowing down, speeding up, changing speeds, changing lanes how does a unit like this work?

I mean if you have a bunchof cars doing this how can he be sure at that exact time it was your vehicle going that speed. He might think you are faster cause you accelerated but the radar unit got the guy who has now speed up for example.

My post is a bit confusing on this unit but in some situations i dont get how this would work and the court would not have any argument to how it works.

This is not lidar. Secondly back the post topic from the sounds it was on a smaller 2 lane highway in an off peak time and the officer was behind them using on moving radar. He watched the whole thing and got the speed of the faster vehicle (guy who passed) and charged him with speeding.

From what i understand Radar can be moving (installed) and hand held. Lidar is always hand held.

It is my best guess if the officer is facing the same direction of traffic on the side of the road he is using one of those built in units. For lidar he is facing you. And if they feel like it they can drive and check your speed at the same time.

From what i understand a Radar/Lidar unit sends out small pulses of light or radio waves in the case of radar and it calculates the time it takes them to get back or the difference in the time it gets them to take back.

That is why with radar you can detect it and the officer can get info on the side of the road such as fastest vehicle for example. Although with lidar since it is sending out small pulses of light it has to be vehicle specific.

I find with lidar they are facing the front of your vehicle aiming the laser at your front plate. With radar in the GTA they always seem to hide under a bridge etc and face the same way you are and check your speed one you pass by them (radar i assume).

I am guessing with heavy traffic radar is the choice while in lighter traffic and off peak times laser is more useable?

I am not sure on all of this. There is another thread where hwybear responded to some of my questions about radar/lidar that was very good.

Although with most police officers it is my guess if they are not sure its you then they are not going to charge you with speeding. You need to remember they are trained to use these units and have experience, practice, and education using them.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 9:05 pm 
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Sorry that post was a bit long.

I watched this video again it's very good.



So my question to hwybear is lets say this was 3 lanes and the cars were all travelling really fast between eachother. I mean a lets say they are all going 125-130. It looks like its hard to tell exactly who is the one.

So does the officer take that reading or speed up and watch him?

Where the cars pass fast in groups i have no idea how you could use laser....

I mean obviously if you have some nut bar weaving across all the lanes going 175 and everyone else is less than 130 you have your culprit but when they are going similar speed (Speeding together in a group) i dont know how they can tell EXACTLY who the culprit was.

I wonder how the hell they do it on hwy 400 when everyone is flying by speeding way over the limit. Pick the ones that stick out like a sore thumb going well over 50?

I realize i am going into exact detail perhaps over analyzing it but i wonder how officers do speed enforcement on busy 3/4 lane highways (one direction) with a concrete median and they are flying by in groups close together exceeding the limit.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 6:50 am 
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Lidar is easy no matter how many lanes or volume of traffic. Only trick in heavy traffic is getting to the offending vehicle.

The video is a Kustom Signals Golden Eagle, which I have not used for 10yrs or so. I can not remember the functions/capabilities of that particular unit. I have also never patrolled on hwys with more than 2 lanes in either direction other than a handful of times.

So having said that stationary radar in that video appears very difficult and looking at that video I would not have confidence in correct speed to vehicle matching (due to lack of my experience in that type of traffic and the old radar I have not used in yrs). I would much rather be moving and let the traffic catch me.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 8:36 am 
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tdrive2 wrote:
..He could definitely get both vehicles speed by being directly behind them.


The cop wasn't following behind. He was coming in the opposite direction.

jorge wrote:
...the oncoming vehicle turns out to be a cop...


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 9:46 am 
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It would depend on which radar unit the officer had and what mode it was in

Correct me if I'm wrong but newer units have a "fastest" speed mode where it will display the fastest reading.....

However if the unit reads and displays all speeds and there was more then 2 cars on the road the information would then be null and void........

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 2:43 pm 
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Thanks bear i totally agree with what you just said.

Reflections your right on I beleive the Decatuer Genesis 2 has that or its the stalker i dont remember. I think its the genesis 2 i have seen alot of those in OPP cars.

If you wanna see some new OPP vics if you look up the mississauga detachment off the QEW there is a tim hortons literally 1 km before the highway.

THERE IS ALWAYS OPP in that parking lot. One time the guy was quite nice i was just asking him some general questions. go take a look at the cars i don't remember what radar unit he had but they definately do have that option.


Hwybear here is my question with lidar. Where you patrol and it is 2 lanes i agree lidar would work. However let's say your on the QEW at like 9 am and everyone is flying past you going between 130-110 which is very common here with no accidents or construction.

The cars ride so close and everyone is in a rush for work. 3 lanes can't handle traffic anymore here. So there is to much room for error with radar to be sure and then it would be dangerous for the patrol officer to get up to the car.

But how would he use lidar. The cars would be travelling so close together if he was on the shoulder as soon as he aimed for a license plate a car in the 2 right most lanes would get in the way.

I know lidar is fast as hell (speed of light) but it must be hard to pick a target and get a reading in a situation like this.

Now mind you sure you could have an officer on a over pass doing this with a lidar unit and have 2 cars waiting underneath but in the GTA this would be crazy. It would cause everyone to slam on the breaks and freak out when they saw 2 marked cars on the side of the road.

As to that video doing enforcement like that. If that was you bear in that car on the side of the road, what kind of unit radar/lidar would you use and how would you be sure you had the right target when they all fly by fast in a group? (just asking for info not to be a smart ass :lol: )


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 2:48 pm 
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Hey bookm sorry i didnt see your post.

In that way the officer got a reading coming the opposite direction????

Here is the problem how could he then check the speed of both your vehicles driving in the opposite way and not be sure he had the one that was driving infront of him?

Was there a lot of traffic when this happened?

Bookm it is very possible he could have got a reading on the passing one. Especially if this was like where hwybear patrols with 2 lanes, light traffic, and a median he could easily turn around at to get at him. Although it depends on how much traffic there was and he had to be sure of the vehicle infront.

Although i hope this guy if he goes to court thinks about some of this kind of stuff. Start questioning the reliability of the radar unit, to be sure he had you, etc, the officers training for the unit, etc...


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 2:56 pm 
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Reflections wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong but newer units have a "fastest" speed mode where it will display the fastest reading.....

However if the unit reads and displays all speeds and there was more then 2 cars on the road the information would then be null and void........

Yes, newer units have the "fast" mode.
Readings do not become null and void with more than 2 vehicles on the road

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 3:01 pm 
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Bookm wrote:
tdrive2 wrote:
..He could definitely get both vehicles speed by being directly behind them.


The cop wasn't following behind. He was coming in the opposite direction.

jorge wrote:
...the oncoming vehicle turns out to be a cop...


Can obtain speeds on both oncoming vehicles

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 3:15 pm 
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tdrive2 wrote:
However let's say your on the QEW at like 9 am and everyone is flying past you going between 130-110 which is very common here with no accidents or construction.

The cars ride so close and everyone is in a rush for work. 3 lanes can't handle traffic anymore here. So there is to much room for error with radar to be sure and then it would be dangerous for the patrol officer to get up to the car.

But how would he use lidar. The cars would be travelling so close together if he was on the shoulder as soon as he aimed for a license plate a car in the 2 right most lanes would get in the way.

Tdrive2 can you rephrase that or clarify....you are talking of lidar and radar....don't want to misunderstand.

Quote:
As to that video doing enforcement like that. If that was you bear in that car on the side of the road, what kind of unit radar/lidar would you use and how would you be sure you had the right target when they all fly by fast in a group? (just asking for info not to be a smart ass :lol: )


video: I'm guessing the officer is behind a bridge, using front antenna and tracking on rear of vehicles. Danger of this is trying to pull out from behind a bridge to even get going. I would not recommend this for speed enforcement purposes.....rather a way to check who has a "radar detector" which could be what is happening here, although there is usually high activations of radar for that.

I personally would find a more suitable location (for my safe merging) and use lidar only.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 7:36 pm 
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Quote:
Readings do not become null and void with more than 2 vehicles on the road


2 vehicles 2 speeds the results are obvious............3 vehicles 3 speeds which one goes where??

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