I was driving on highway 40 today and a police officer was in an unmarked vehicle, purposefully going about 90/95 trying to bait people to pass him. When I performed a safe pass - doing pretty much everything by the books (signaling, waiting for dotted line, clear traffic, barely speeding up) etc. The officer decided he couldn't write me for doing an unsafe pass, so he wrote for speeding instead; by taking the reading my vehicle was traveling at while passing and creating a safe following distance. When I pressed him for an answer as to why the ticket was written he say "it's too busy, you shouldn't be passing on this road". Which is a bit hypocritical considering he was trying to impeded the flow of traffic, within the confines of the law. A very significant portion of vehicles travel faster than his rate of speed including other police officers on this road. And when you drive just above 80, people gun it up to 120 very often to perform a quick pass.
There doesn't appear to be any fatal errors on the ticket (Set fine $97.50, Total payable $122.50). Are these correct? Given how speeding is an absolute liability offensive, is there anything that would stand up in court for a case like this? I haven't received disclosure yet, but will definitely be pleading not guilty and requesting it. There's nothing to lose as a reduction wasn't handed out.
lol. On a single lane highway, you decided to pass an officer who was already doing 15km over the limit. Did you ever stop to think this might not be a good idea?
stickz wrote:Which is a bit hypocritical considering he was trying to impeded the flow of traffic, within the confines of the law.
Not sure I follow. How is the officer, who is on a single lane highway and travelling over the limit, impeding traffic by the confines of the law?
You can always wait for disclosure and go from there.
He was travelling slower than the average speed on that highway. Just like the 400 series, most people drive 20 over by default on that highway. He was in an unmarked vehicle, I had no clue until after the fact. The situation was largely circumstantial to the point where he was literally waiting for people to take the bait and pass him. Essentially provoking then hammering for speeding. This is an example of bad law enforcement because they do things to try and trigger people then punish them for it.
What I meant to say, is that it's perfectly legal to drive the speed limit or near it. But it ticks people off and congests a lot of traffic to the point where people behind you are forced to go slower. Essentially, impeding traffic but doing it legally.
I missed the part about being an unmarked car. That's my mistake.
Your assumptions however of the officers intentions I feel are a little off base. The officer didn't need bait you into speeding. You're already speeding when you're following him at a pace greater than the speed limit. Had the officer really wanted to pull you over at that moment, they would have. The officer didn't. They didn't need to wait for you to be in front. The fact that the officer wasn't dead set at 80 but allowed you to follow more comfortably, in my opinion, is rather cool of the officer. The point where you pass an officer using the opposite lane going nearly 30km over the speed limit, you kind of leave him with no choice.
I'm not sure the reason why you feel combative during the stop, and in your words, are pressing him for an answer to why a ticket was being written. You're not exactly doing yourself any favours. The road side isn't a court room and you just passed an officer on a single lane highway doing well over the limit. Be a little more humble. No, you don't have to admit to speeding but at least don't give him a reason to do everything by the book.
As far as the ticket goes, you've announced your decision to plead not guilty. You can wait for your notice of trial and then have your disclosure request ready. You can choose to use a template you found online. In my opinion, don't. They are usually bloated with request 99% of people can't explain why they need them or how they're relevant. Usually the forms provided by the provincial are good enough. If not, you can use that as a template and add additional requests relevant to your charge. Take a look their website as they may have the information of the prosecution office like an email address, fax, etc. If not, call the court offices and ask. There isn't much you can do until then.
So you passed a police car on a single lane highway at 26 km/h over the posted limit.... funny how that works.
In Ontario speeding is absolute liability meaning you either were or you were not speeding. Somebody driving slower than everybody else is not a reason to speed. Officer in unmarked car is irrelevent. Speed limit was 80, so even if you pass at 81 then you were speeding.
Police are allowed to speed while on duty because somehow they are safer drivers than the rest of us, but I digress.
I would still plead NOT GUILTY and request a trial with the officer present. Once you get your Notice of Trial, then you can request disclosure (officers notes, manual for radar). Once you get the notes then you can decide if you have a case or not.
just to reiterate what jsherk has said,
I've seen a few threads on this, if you "speed" to overtake your still speeding.
a trick to spotting unmarked
* They are almost always GM's
* Any colour
* on the back they have 3 (I think they are antennas) 1 in the middle which is about 4" and looks like a mobile aerial 2 either side, small square about the size of your palm, like a cigarette box,
boxes are usually body coloured
every car that meets thoes, when I've driven past has a cop with a laptop in it
jsherk wrote:In Ontario speeding is absolute liability meaning you either were or you were not speeding. Somebody driving slower than everybody else is not a reason to speed. Officer in unmarked car is irrelevent. Speed limit was 80, so even if you pass at 81 then you were speeding.
* NO you cant touch your phone
* Speeding is speeding
* Challenge every ticket
* Impaired driving, you should be locked up UNDER the jail
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