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Ontario Highway Traffic Act

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 2:05 pm 
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Frodamob wrote:
Why does it take two squad cars for a minor traffic infraction?
I have never understood this, why they request/need backup?

Typical daily operations....driving along or see another cruiser stopped with someone, we stop to check on the other unit. Often it is another police service and we stop as well

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I think they're just bored and figure they will help in case they're needed, they are after all Unionized employee's.

We do not have unions

Quote:
This is simply a cash cow, tax collector at work here.

Don't want to see the tax collector, don't break any laws = totally avoidable.
But paying tax on gasoline, food, etc...which is not in your control and don't complain :roll:

Quote:
Look at what it takes to be a police officer ... High School Education and a valid O.A.C.P. Certificate.

There has to be some form of a base for applicants to apply. Just b/c someone meets those criteria does not ensure they will be hired. There are many more stages to go through, then pass OPC and many services have their own Academy up and beyond OPC, that the candidate must also be successful at. Further the officer is on a one year probation with monthly evaluations.

Just b/c someone has a BA or Masters does not make them a good candidate either. They might not have the people skills or the guts to go into situations where everyone else is running out!

Quote:
Traffic cops, at times, can be uneducated tax collectors, AND they are put in a position daily of being judge, jury, and executioner, they are the lowest form of cop, right there with lovely Rita Meter Maid (Parking Warden)

That is offensive!!! :evil: Not only to police but the other professions you grouped in.

To gain more understanding, when an officer comes fresh out of the Academy they are placed with a "coach officer" with many years experience and who guides, supports, mentors the new officer into the policing profession. These officers are the "front line" officers. It generally takes 5 years before an officer can then specialize into an area of their interest (ie: traffic, K9, swat, ident, crime etc..). From those areas of interest the officer can then specialize farther (ie: traffic - enforcement, collision reconstruction, vehicle inspections etc....K9 - tracking, searching, explosives, drugs etc...) Each area requires more and more training and courses to become proficient and hone their expertise in those areas.

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More to my point look at the following article from the star, it talks about a murder, then look at the Street/Stunt Racing laws penalties ... Where the F*** are our priorities?
http://www.thestar.com/unassigned/article/692530.

Oh right one makes money the other costs money.


Traffic collisions cause more deaths per year in Canada than crime.
OPP stats: for 2008
16 homicides
208 deaths in traffic collisions
Would you not want the area with the highest deaths getting the most attention?

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Above is merely a suggestion/thought and in no way constitutes legal advice or views of my employer. www.OHTA.ca


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 6:08 pm 
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Frodamob wrote:
Why does it take two squad cars for a minor traffic infraction? I have never understood this, why they request/need backup?


Several reasons. First, if a person is driving through a high-complaints area at 4:00 in the morning, then starts giving the cop attitude and otherwise acting suspicious, the cop would be nuts NOT to call for backup. (Act like you've got something to hide and they'll dig for it.) Policing is one of the few occupations where's a real possibility that they might not go home at the end of the shift. Second, many drivers are gigantic a-holes and blaze past parked emergency vehicles at high speed without slowing down or moving over. This puts the officer and the person he's stopped in danger. The second vehicle is often there to go after the offender.

Frodamob wrote:
This is simply a cash cow, tax collector at work here. Look at what it takes to be a police officer ... High School Education and a valid O.A.C.P. Certificate. Traffic cops, at times, can be uneducated tax collectors, AND they are put in a position daily of being judge, jury, and executioner, they are the lowest form of cop, right there with lovely Rita Meter Maid (Parking Warden)



:roll:

That's completely uncalled for. Some traffic enforcement is ridiculous (such as speed traps on a deserted expressway at 3:00 AM), but that said, any time you break a law you're at risk of consequences. Only in very few cases are the cops genuinely picking on someone (e.g. Dennis Mahoney-Bruer). If you are speeding, you risk getting a speeding ticket. That's life. I try to help people who get tickets because I think our speed limits are too low, enforcement is often overly-directed at speeding alone, some offences that people are ticketed for caused no harm at all (e.g. ticket for rolling a stop at 2:00 AM), and then we have s. 172. Our criminal justice system is a joke, but with respect to officers ticketing people for traffic offences, it's a red herring.

Also, "uneducated tax collectors"? Think about that for a second. The idea that cops are stupid, uneducated individuals may seem like something to laugh at, but then the people who are pointing at the cops and insulting them are the ones who get caught by them. How ironic.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 9:40 pm 
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Who gets the ticket ? My son was given a ticket for defective brakes but it wasn't his car ?


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 12:11 am 
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Radar Identified wrote:
Frodamob wrote:
Why does it take two squad cars for a minor traffic infraction? I have never understood this, why they request/need backup?


First, if a person is driving through a high-complaints area at 4:00 in the morning, then starts giving the cop attitude and otherwise acting suspicious, the cop would be nuts NOT to call for backup. (Act like you've got something to hide and they'll dig for it.) them. How ironic.


So when a cop pulls me over under HTA and asks my passengers for ID (WTF DO YOU NEED HIS ID FOR???) and i question it, Im giving him attitude? How bout the part where they stopped me was a dirt road and before he stopped me he put his spotlight on my truck and i couldnt see, AND it was foggy, and left the spotlight on for ill wager at least 5 seconds before putting his emergency lights on. He put the cherries on about the exact time i SLAMMED ON MY BREAKS for a stop sign i didnt see and stopped about 2 feet short of a car going down the highway from my left doing at least 60km/h. Wreckless endangerment? I also broke my mirror in half fumbling for it trying to move it so i could see while this D-bag was following me with a giant 10 million candle power spotlight blinding me.

They always talk abnout attitude. I wasn;t doing anything suspicious. he followed me down a street. I drive down MY street every night between 12:00am and 3am.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 6:31 am 
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Quote:
Traffic collisions cause more deaths per year in Canada than crime.
OPP stats: for 2008
16 homicides
208 deaths in traffic collisions
Would you not want the area with the highest deaths getting the most attention?


This is an interesting statistic, however it's fairly biased. I would bet that most tickets are given out in the areas where the least deaths occur. This would be in town where the only crimes that are ever solved are traffic. Almost every weekend there is some form of vandalism on my street, however there are no police patrolling. Still seems to me that the traffic act is a tax collection for the unfortunate.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 6:36 am 
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davec wrote:
Quote:
Traffic collisions cause more deaths per year in Canada than crime.
OPP stats: for 2008
16 homicides
208 deaths in traffic collisions
Would you not want the area with the highest deaths getting the most attention?


This is an interesting statistic, however it's fairly biased. .


How can actual deaths in the same allotted time frame be biased?

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Above is merely a suggestion/thought and in no way constitutes legal advice or views of my employer. www.OHTA.ca


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 7:07 am 
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hwybear wrote:
davec wrote:
Quote:
Traffic collisions cause more deaths per year in Canada than crime.
OPP stats: for 2008
16 homicides
208 deaths in traffic collisions
Would you not want the area with the highest deaths getting the most attention?


This is an interesting statistic, however it's fairly biased. .


How can actual deaths in the same allotted time frame be biased?


Simple...

The homicides occur in towns/cities. The majority of traffic fatalities I am guessing do not. There are far more police resources consumed monitoring traffic in highly populated areas where the fewest fatalities occur and the majority of homicides and all other forms of crime occur.

Bias may not be the correct word, but it's still misleading.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 1:24 pm 
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From Stats Canada - they are couple years behind

2006
2889 traffic fatalities = 83 % http://www.tc.gc.ca/roadsafety/tp/tp3322/2006/page1.htm

606 Homicides = 17 %
http://www40.statcan.gc.ca/l01/cst01/legal12a-eng.htm

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 11:04 pm 
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ponyboyt wrote:
So when a cop pulls me over under HTA and asks my passengers for ID (WTF DO YOU NEED HIS ID FOR???) and i question it, Im giving him attitude?


And how did you respond to the officer asking your passenger for ID? Was it closer to: "Why?" or was it more like: "Why the f*** do you need his ID, you fat pig?"

Also, from your post under speeding 30-49 km/h over the limit:

ponyboyt wrote:
This is my 12th ticket in 3 months.


Well... good luck in court.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 8:39 am 
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hwybear wrote:
From Stats Canada - they are couple years behind

2006
2889 traffic fatalities = 83 % http://www.tc.gc.ca/roadsafety/tp/tp3322/2006/page1.htm

606 Homicides = 17 %
http://www40.statcan.gc.ca/l01/cst01/legal12a-eng.htm


Fatalities by road type ... as of 2003 http://www.ccmta.ca/english/pdf/collisi ... s_03_e.pdf

Urban 936 ( defined by metropolitan or speeds below 60km/h at collision site)
Rural 1539 ( primary or secondary hwy speeds exceeding 60km/h at collision site)

A more relevant statistic is the number of injuries,

Urban 110,511, Rural 41,639

One could argue that since it costs the taxpayer more for injuries than fatalities that the extra resources required in rural areas to police traffic are warranted, however I doubt that speed is an issue in rural collisions. I would guess it's driver training, experience etc.

Regardless if your argument is that more fatalities on the road than homicides justifies all the policing of highways, then the majority of the police resources should be concentrated on rural roads as defined above.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 8:45 am 
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Radar Identified wrote:
And how did you respond to the officer asking your passenger for ID? Was it closer to: "Why?" or was it more like: "Why the f*** do you need his ID, you fat pig?"

My exact words were "why do they need ID?" With more of a shocked tone than anything.

Also, from your post under speeding 30-49 km/h over the limit:

ponyboyt wrote:
This is my 12th ticket in 3 months.


Well... good luck in court.


Thus far i've paid 2 of those tickets. 2 were thrown out without a court date ever being set. I have 4 court dates this year and 2 next year. Don't know when this one is yet.

It's not like i pull attitude whenever i get stopped. I've been stopped more than a few times where i had a decent enough cop who didn't give me a hard time. But when they stop me and totaly out of the blue start hammering off the wall questions seemingly accusing suspision and talk to me like im an inmate in some facility I will get defensive. Especialy after the time they pulled my girlfriend out of the car to "talk to her" and told er how much of a piece of s**t i was. I havent been in trouble with the police since 1998. Seems not everyone will forget i guess, and i expect to be treated differently. But that doesn't mean i have no rights. The ammount of BS that goes on is retarded. I see it more than the average Joe because of the hours i keep. (I assume thats why). If you read my Niagara story before i pulled it down you would understand my "defensiveness".


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 9:06 am 
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Couple story's:

I was out looking for diapers one night at about 12:30 AM. I had slowed down to glance at a shoppers drug mart to see if they were open. At the time i was driving a 1994 red 2 door Grand Prix GTP. It was tinted pretty dark and had fairly loud pipes and a very loud stereo and modified engine. I was being quiet as it was pretty late on a week night. At the time i slowed down there happened to be a cop who looked like he was doing standard patrol checking on the plaza where the Shoppers was. I think he saw me slow down and kinda stick my head out the window to see if the store was open so he stopped me. Long story short, he offered a couple hints as to where i might find diapers this late and gave me a 48 hour warning to fix my headlight. I fixed it the next day and met him on his next shift. He didn't stop me and scream and hollar things like YOU WERE GONA ROB THAT STORE. Maybe that's an exageration.... but to get the point....

Month or so after that stop, i was stopped in my home town on a main street, again at night. The cop told me i couldn't stop where i was and to move my car over a few feet. I complained that there was plowed snow in the way (my car was lowered) and he threatened a ticket for blocking traffic or something... so i drove into the snow bank and ended up turning one of my mufflers loose. I complained about this and he said if the car was in that good shape it would be easy to fix /boggle. No ticket, just 20 minutes of my time wasted.

The next night i got stopped for "pipes are too loud and your windows are too dark" i swear every police car in town was there. (population 9000). Stopped about 200 metres up the road from the ngiht before. I was on my way to Tim Hortons for a hot chocolate. I do that when its late and im not tired enoughto sleep. Summing it up, no ticket, bunch of warnings (threats) about an hour and 10 minutes of my time wasted.

I don't think i ever got a ticket in that car. I got rid of it cause i was sick of the hassle and bought my STS. Thats when the tickets started rolling in... So much for thinking a grampa car would be safer....


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 9:23 am 
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davec wrote:
hwybear wrote:
From Stats Canada - they are couple years behind

2006
2889 traffic fatalities = 83 % http://www.tc.gc.ca/roadsafety/tp/tp3322/2006/page1.htm

606 Homicides = 17 %
http://www40.statcan.gc.ca/l01/cst01/legal12a-eng.htm


Fatalities by road type ... as of 2003 http://www.ccmta.ca/english/pdf/collisi ... s_03_e.pdf

Urban 936 ( defined by metropolitan or speeds below 60km/h at collision site)
Rural 1539 ( primary or secondary hwy speeds exceeding 60km/h at collision site)

A more relevant statistic is the number of injuries,

Urban 110,511, Rural 41,639

One could argue that since it costs the taxpayer more for injuries than fatalities that the extra resources required in rural areas to police traffic are warranted, however I doubt that speed is an issue in rural collisions. I would guess it's driver training, experience etc.

Regardless if your argument is that more fatalities on the road than homicides justifies all the policing of highways, then the majority of the police resources should be concentrated on rural roads as defined above.


Damn dave, you come armed with numbers.... :D

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 10:15 am 
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ponyboyt wrote:
I havent been in trouble with the police since 1998. Seems not everyone will forget i guess, and i expect to be treated differently. But that doesn't mean i have no rights.


Given the number of times you've been stopped/ticketed lately, you might want to consider hiring a lawyer. The lawyer could do a bit of digging and see if your vehicle/plate has been flagged for some reason. If you haven't been in trouble since 1998 and now you're getting pulled over basically every week, something's going on. Type of car... maybe. Did your STS come with new plates, or did you just transfer the plates to the new vehicle?


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 10:46 am 
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not new plates.

I started to blame the car. Its flashy. Its tinted. I figure Niagara was looking for drugs when they got me. It's weird though that when they stop me they always ask me about stuff that has nothing to do with what i was in trouble for in the past. Makes me think they don't see my record. Like maybe its bumped off the computer. When i was in the cruiser in Niagara he ran my name and i didnt see anything, not that i know the software and what to look for....

I have thought about a lawyer looking into it for me. But what would that do other than tell me why they stop me?


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