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Ontario Highway Traffic Act

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Out of range LIDAR?
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 6:54 pm 
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I need some help guys.

On the 400 extension EB towards Barrie cops like to hide out under an over pass that is Ski Trails Rd. They tag people as the come over the crest of the hill and that is 900m from where this officer was standing.

I'm confused because I knew this, saw the cop, and checked my speed to make sure I wasn't going to fast but still got a ticket for going 40ish over. The problem is that the LTI 20/20 used has a max range of 610m so even if anyone is speeding coming over that hill they can see the cop and have a 300m slow down range.

How did he get a reading without fabricating information?

Plus, if I was doing 140km/h 610m. away from him, he still walked onto the highway to stop me. That seems a little sketchy giving the time he is allowing me to stop in, assuming I do see him walking onto a 400 series highway :shock: .


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 11:14 pm 
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How do you know thats what LIDAR the officer was using? If it was mounted on a tripod the range will be better. How the officer got you to pull over is not an area of interest to the court.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 11:26 pm 
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Location: Guelph, Ontario
Bear will know more about the specific model of the radar. Lidar makes a fairly small cone of light. Bear writes here:
hwybear wrote:
I start observing vehicles about 1km away (through scope) monitor, then hit the vehicle with lidar around 700m. Then again around 550m. Then my final hit is around 500m-100m. This allows a visual observation, confirmed targetting history. The lidar beam is very concentrated being this close and any smog would be less than minimal affect.

The addition of moisture in the air reduces the effective range of the lidar. ie light rain might reduce my first reading from 700m down to 500m. Snow is just horrible and a waste of my time using a lidar. It is not affecting the accuracy of the readings, just how far away a vehicle can be targetted.

..........

At 100m
Lidar = 30cm beam width
Radar = 20 metres

There is absolutely never any doubt with lidar which vehicle is travelling what speed.


And, from wiki:
Quote:
The use of many reflections and an averaging technique in the speed measurement process increase the integrity of the speed reading. Vehicles are usually equipped with a vertical registration plate that, when illuminated, causes a high integrity reflection to be returned to the LIDAR - despite the shape of the vehicle. In locations that do not require that a front or rear registration plate is fitted, headlamps and rear-reflectors provide almost ideal retro-reflective surfaces overcoming the reflections from uneven or non-compliant reflective surfaces thereby eliminating “sweep” error. It is these mechanisms which cause concern that LIDAR is somehow unreliable.

Most traffic LIDAR systems send out a stream of approximately 100 pulses over the span of three-tenths of a second. A "black box" proprietary statistical algorithm picks and chooses which progressively shorter reflections to retain from the pulses over the short fraction of a second.

Again, in your disclosure request you should ask for the manual, outlining the specifics of the unit, whether or not it was tested properly or not prior and after the shift, and you should also ask for the page(s) which lists technical limitation of the lidar.

In LEO's notes you should look for where the reading was taken, whether or not it is within the range of device, and whether or not he targeted your plate specifically. He might have confirmed your reading at a closer distance.

144 km/hr is 40 m/s, 135 is 37.5 m/s, 120 is 33.333 m/s, and 108 km/hr is 30 m/s. Speed limit is 100 where you were, right?

What were you really doing there, and what did you do next? Were you targeted at, say, 110 in 100, then speed limit drops to 70, and the cop wrote "110 in 70"?

For 600 m it would be 15 seconds at 144. Enough time for you to slow down.

Speeding tickets are some of the hardest to win. You need to exploit every technicality. What is the exact speed listed, and the exact fine?

_________________
"The more laws, the less justice" - Marcus Tullius Cicero
"The hardest thing to explain is the obvious"

www.OHTA.ca & www.OntarioHighwayTrafficAct.com


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 12:11 am 
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Location: In YOUR rearview mirror!
cruzmisl wrote:
How do you know thats what LIDAR the officer was using? If it was mounted on a tripod the range will be better. .


I know of 2 models that end with LTI 20-20. There might be more.

Lidar on a tripod is not a better range per se, but easier to hold steady and focus on vehicles farther away.

I sit x-ways being visible for 2km and people do not notice the cruiser until they are within 500m and most are around the 200-300m mark. Some don't even see the cruiser :shock:

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Above is merely a suggestion/thought and in no way constitutes legal advice or views of my employer. www.OHTA.ca


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 9:55 am 
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Location: somewhere in traffic
First LTI model, the Marksman

http://www.lasertech.com/LTI-Patents.aspx

1994

Next up the Ultralyte:

http://www.lasertech.com/Traffic-Safety-Products.aspx


Then the Truspeed:

http://www.lasertech.com/TruSpeed-Laser-Speed-Gun.aspx

You will notice that all the models have 20/20 in them somewhere.
If the only thing that disclosure tells you is that the officer was using a LTI 20/20 then your disclosure is incomplete.....and we all know what to do with that. :D

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 1:40 pm 
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WOW. Thanks guys.

I did request disclosure about 2 months ago and they have not given me even a phone call yet.

I was in court last week and I picked up disclosure then which was for that trial so if this incidents disclosure was prepared and ready for me back then, then the clerk didn't give it to me. (Therefore not my fault?)

I was doing maby 120km/h (MAX) and that stretch of highway is 100km/h all the way. Some may argue that this is too fast. The officer that pulled me over told me that that would of been an acceptable speed. Seems unprofessional but he did say that.

Other than that the only reason why I said LTI 20/20 is because I recognised it as he put it back in his cruiser, but I may be wrong.

I'm going to have to ask for an adjornment to another day due to no fault of my own and then I'll be able to file an 11b charter motion and this is an area I have some experience in. The trial is this Friday so I'll update then.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 6:26 pm 
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Ok so here is how it went last Friday. I went into the courthouse without any disclosure so the only thing I could do is ask for an adjournment to the next SOONEST possible date. When asked why I told the JP that I had not received my disclosure yet. I also told her that I was in the Provincial Offenses Office a week before to pick it up and it was not given to me.

The prosecutor disagreed and said that I had already picked it up and signed off on it as well. He then showed both the JP and myself a signed off disclosure package.

This is very odd and worrying to me. Someone signed my name, on the disclosure, as "MR._________" and dated it the same day I was in the week before for a different trial. It wasn't my signature. Not even remotely the same style or format. As well nobody in my family knows that I'm even in court.

So I showed the JP what my signature looks like on the 2nd page of my disclosure request and kindly suggested that someone really should crosscheck signatures before releasing disclosure to any person.

Anyways, the trial got postponed to this June and now I am well within the range to file for an 11b motion (12+ months by the next trial). Again. Oh, and the cop used a LASER ATLANTA Speed Laser. Not a LTI. My bad.

What I need to know is:
a) would an office clerk be bold enough to forge my signature?
b) can I request to have the surveillance footage of the office be reviewed to find out who, if anyone, took my disclosure and forged (poorly) my signature?


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 8:14 pm 
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Location: somewhere in traffic
What I need to know is:
a) would an office clerk be bold enough to forge my signature?
---Doubt it......


b) can I request to have the surveillance footage of the office be reviewed to find out who, if anyone, took my disclosure and forged (poorly) my signature?
---
You can ask for anything, just you may not get it. Forgery is a criminal matter and the fact that you brought it up to a JP, the court should look into it. Then again this is the justice system.....

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http://www.OHTA.ca OR http://www.OntarioTrafficAct.com


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