Improper Left Turn: Harbor & Yonge St

bijelodugme
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Improper Left Turn: Harbor & Yonge St

Unread post by bijelodugme on

Hi, last summer I was pulled over when I made a left turn from he middle lane at Harbor and Yonge Street (heading east on the Gardiner and taking the Yonge exit). I swear they nabbed about 10 people in 5 minutes. Anyways, I decided to challenge in court, my court date is in April and I have just submitted my request for discolsure today. I know that this is a police nabbing hotspot and was wondering if anyone had any experience challenging this offense.

Just a few details, it was mid afternoon, I was heading downtown to meet some clients and was following my boss's car. When he turned left, I followed, and we both got booked. I feigned innocence to the officer who told me to: "Choose option 3, you can go to court and at least you won't lose points." My guess is that they are going to gather everyone who got ticketed that day in a giant room and offer a plea bargain of a reduced fine and no demerit points to everyone (which I do not wish to accept, but that will depend on several things, including the details of the disclosure)


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hwybear
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Unread post by hwybear on

Just used google maps and "street view". If I follow your description. There is a designated "left turn" lane (marked with road markings and with signs). Centre and right lane have "straight ahead" road markings.
Above is merely a suggestion/thought and in no way constitutes legal advice or views of my employer. www.OHTA.ca


bijelodugme
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Unread post by bijelodugme on

Yes, that is correct. I turned from the centre lane [improper], so I'm just wondering if anyone has any advice for challenging this or if someone has been ticketed at the same intersection and gone through the court process. I will outline the disclosure summary once I receive it.

Thanks


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Unread post by dhbb on

Hello gurus :-)
Are there any success stories on plea bargaininig against the improper left turn on that particular intersection at Harbor and Yonge Street?
Any by-laws applicable to the intersection?

Thank you,
D.


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Radar Identified
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Unread post by Radar Identified on

Best bet is to look for a municipal by-law infraction under Toronto by-law 32-92. See what the Prosecutor offers you.
* The above is NOT legal advice. By acting on anything I have said, you assume responsibility for any outcome and consequences. *
http://www.OntarioTicket.com OR http://www.OHTA.ca


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Unread post by dhbb on

Thanks for the hint. So sad, can't find that by-law original full text, anywhere. Going to try neighbourhood library on the weekend, any other bets? Maybe someone has a link?


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Unread post by dhbb on

Still no luck with finding the base text of Toronto by-law 32-92. So any help there is greatly appreciated. :wink:

Never the less, is it possible to use in defence that the change was not really recommended until the environment study and other stuff in bold below?

Source: http://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2008 ... -17081.pdf
---------------
...
RECOMMENDATIONS
Transportation Services recommends that City Council:
2. Not alter the lane designations on eastbound Harbour Street at Yonge Street at
this time, pending consideration of such changes in the current Environmental
Assessment.
... more detail ...
If the dual left-turn movement is changed, these drivers
would be required to make two lane changes in order to be in the proper left-turn lane at
Yonge Street. This section of roadway is much shorter (185 metres) than the section of
Harbour Street between York Street and Bay Street. There is also a significant curve in
Harbour Street between Bay Street and Yonge Street.
With longer queues for the left
turn at Yonge Street, these lane changes would be very difficult. There is a potential ofvehicles stopping in the eastbound lanes of Harbour Street, while waiting to merge with
left-turning traffic, and also of making an illegal dual left-turn movement at Yonge Street
These factors lead us to conclude that the dual left-turn movement should not be changed
at Yonge Street with the existing F.G. Gardiner ramp configurations at this time.
Further
consideration of this proposal should be included in the environmental assessment for
changes to the York and Bay ramps.
----------
I don't think this fact makes one's defence, but still...

So given the facts:
1. These wrong turns were anticipated there due to the following factors (at least):
a. curve, to the distance,
b. the layout of the lanes, when exiting from the Eastbound GHW ramp
c. the distance (that's 185 meters, or 13.32 seconds if driving with 50 km/h,
and
2. The change was not originally recommended
and
3. and yes, still, there is still a lot of people making the same turn from the middle line.

Did not found the final vote on the matter nor the environmental assessment study. Any links from more advanced ladies and gentlemen?

Any thoughts?


bijelodugme
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Unread post by bijelodugme on

I received my disclosure today. All it says is

Nissan Sentra
Blue (that's what it looks like)
L2 to L2
Followed Car

And there's also a second page with a nice little map drawing.

I did not receive complete disclosure; I asked for a copy of the ticket, and for a notice of the offence. Is this worthy of a stay/adjournment argument?
Also, the colour of my vehicle is incorrect, could I bring this up in court and discredit the prosecutor?


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Unread post by Stanton on

bijelodugme wrote:I did not receive complete disclosure; I asked for a copy of the ticket, and for a notice of the offence. Is this worthy of a stay/adjournment argument?
I'm not sure if failing to receive a copy of the ticket would be prejudicial to your defence unless there are additional notes recorded on the back of it. Usually officers record their notes either on the ticket or in their notebooks, not both.
I'm also not sure what you mean by notice of the offence. To me that would be the ticket you received, or are you looking for something else in specific?
bijelodugme wrote:Also, the colour of my vehicle is incorrect, could I bring this up in court and discredit the prosecutor?
It could raise some doubt about the officer's testimony, but probably wouldn't be fatal to the case. What color is your car?


bijelodugme
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Unread post by bijelodugme on

By notice of offence I actually do mean ticket. Not to be a pain or anything, but the original ticket got smudged after I had it in my wallet for a couple of days, it's very illegible.

My car is red (burgundy)


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