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Ontario Highway Traffic Act

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*Updated, excerise my option to speak to a proscutor or tria
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PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2009 6:14 pm 
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Got a speeding ticket, but I know I wasn't doing that speed, but I don't know how I would go about defending it.
i was pulling out of gas station and less than 30 seconds i hit the speed trap and they said i was going 86 in a 60 zone.

i had trucks flying by me to get on the on ramp of the 401 heading west. and they were under the tunnel for people going east.

from the gas station to where they are, I would say it would take less than 5 minutes to walk to there destination.

got gas filled up, got my receipt, washed the windows, waited in line to get onto the road. made it to the center divider before i can merge onto traffic. and than boom cop comes out and points me aside and said i was going 86 in a 60.

now on the back of the ticket it says there's an option 4: to speak to a prosecutor. should i speak to the prosecutor and explain my case and if they find me guilty is that it, i can't accept what they offer me and go to trial anyways? is this like a First Attendance like toronto?


I even have the receipt of the shell gas station with the time and the time the officer gave me my ticket weather it was the time she was writing it or when I actually "committed" the infraction. The time between the two are a matter of 6 minutes. Cause I also added freon for the ac for the drive home.

any help would be appreciated.
thanks.


Last edited by jbody on Wed May 13, 2009 9:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2009 10:35 pm 
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As for "option 4: speaking to the Prosecutor," I can't say for sure if it is First Attendance or not. (Probably is.) Technically speaking, it wouldn't be so much a case of the Prosecutor "finding you guilty" as refusing to accept your offer. May be worthwhile placing a phone call and finding out what the option means.

Were there multiple officers running the speed trap?

If you choose to fight the ticket (probably not a bad idea), be sure to make a disclosure request ASAP. Ask for a copy of the manual of the speed measuring device that was used to track your speed. You should also get the officer's notes. If the distance between the point where you joined the road and the point where you got stopped was ridiculously short (as in, no chance to get up to 86), would be worthwhile going back and photographing the area to use as evidence later.

The disclosure of the manual is one way to derail the proceedings. If they don't do it, that's grounds for a stay. Nonetheless, it's worthwhile getting a look at the evidence against you and then making a decision as to whether you want to go the route of a plea bargain or fight it. Depending on your insurance company, some view any speeding ticket from 1-49 over the limit as a "minor" conviction and will raise your rates, but some of them (like mine) view one ticket for up to 15 over the limit as a freebie, so depending on who you have, plea bargaining may be an option to save some additional $$$ on your insurance.

For the most comprehensive information on fighting a traffic ticket, check out this website:

www.ticketcombat.com


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PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2009 10:48 pm 
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hey radar,
thanks i was looking into your site actually. lots of reading material.

yeah it was a multiple officer speed trap. 3 officers were there, each in their separate vehicle. only using 1 radar/laser.

however, the ticket does not have a yes checked beside the witness box, which makes me think the person that originally started the trap is the owner of the equipment.

i have 2 speeding tickets that are 15 exactly, one is going away in a month or 2, and the other one in a year.

while merging, i would've have to floor my crappy little civic to get it up to 86 within the distance.

here's the address, to get a better understanding.
4574 King E
Kitchener, ON

perhaps i will give the option 4 a call tomorrow to see what that is, cause if i can't defend or explain myself, i would sure like to go to court for a trial.


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PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2009 12:07 am 
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Couple of points: Be careful about "explaining" yourself to the Prosecutor. Some people in First Attendance meetings admit that they were speeding or whatever, the Prosecutor immediately stops all attempts to accept a bargain and goes right to court, then uses that statement against them! Not saying you would make that error, but it has happened! Don't admit to exceeding the speed limit in your meeting with the Prosecutor. Likely the Prosecutor will offer you a deal, but if you want it completely off your record, it's going to take more work. I'm sure they've heard the point that "I couldn't have been speeding" hundreds of times before, so the actual evidence that you could not have got your car up to 86, or that the device that measured your speed was probably tracking someone else, will likely have to wait until later. Just maintain your innocence.

If you are comfortable having two 15 km/h-over tickets on your record, you can plea bargain to 15 over in the meeting. That's because by the time the meeting happens and the paperwork gets filed, the first ticket you had for 15 over should drop off your record. So ultimately, should not change your insurance rates, which is the big risk here.

The disclosure package will be the biggest help to you. You might want to take notes of your version of events, as well. Speeding tickets usually are tricky to beat in court, but the best way to proceed right now is to get as much info from the Crown as you can, so you can then make a decision as to how you want to proceed, or see if they goof up in the disclosure package or the officer's notes are very sloppy or the device wasn't tested or something else interesting pops up...

jbody wrote:
thanks i was looking into your site actually.


To give credit where credit is due, ticketcombat (the author of the website bearing the name) actually posts on this forum. It is a great site, but it's not "mine."


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PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2009 5:57 am 
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Now if I don't decide to go to the option 4 "prosecutor" do all 3 officers have to show up or do they not have to show up as there is no check box under the witness box.


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PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2009 7:27 am 
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jbody wrote:
Now if I don't decide to go to the option 4 "prosecutor" do all 3 officers have to show up or do they not have to show up as there is no check box under the witness box.


There will only be 2 officers at most. The one running the gun and the one that pulled you over. Both have to show up to prove your guilt. Go chat and see whats on the table. If you don't like it then fight the charge and request disclosure....then you'll have an idea as to what you are facing.

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http://www.OHTA.ca OR http://www.OntarioTrafficAct.com


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PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2009 9:02 am 
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Oh I see. So I'm under the assumption that the officer was operaring the gun and flagged me down as the officer wrote no witnesses.

I guess ill see what that prosecuter option is. It might be like a first attendance.


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PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2009 3:06 pm 
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Just a couple of more points.

First, thanks everyone for the positive comments on my site, it's much appreciated.

Second, I've seen this situation before, in Guelph actually. Three cops all taking turns using the same radar gun. Cop 1 uses the gun, pulls someone over, hands the gun to cop 2 before writing the ticket. Cop 2 does the same handing the gun to cop 3. By the time Cop 3 pulls someone over, cop 1 is ready for action again.

This is where it gets interesting. Each cop has to do the radar/lidar gun test, whether it's the self-test button or calibration with tuning forks or distance measurements, otherwise the officer who does the test has to be in court along with the ticketing officer.

If all three officers did their own test, the issue is whether they all got consistent test results. They probably did, but that's not going to stop you from requesting the names of the other two officers and their testing notes, time of test, procedures they followed, etc. in your disclosure request.

Next point, "Officer, were you in care and control of the speed measuring device at all times between your tests?" Of course not, he was doing the hand off. In other words, he did not have complete control of the device between the first test at the start of shift and the second test, perhaps at the end of shift. If it's the self-test button, he likely was not pressing it right after pulling you over but later on, AFTER someone else was using the device.

Image Mr. Bean as cop 2, dropping the device, spilling jelly donut goop on it, cleaning it up and handing it back. Would you trust the accuracy of the device? The test may still produce an "OK" result, but the reliability of it is out the window.

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PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2009 12:17 am 
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ticketcombat:

hose are all very interesting notes. definitely going to read your site very thoroughly as the trial period does start and what not.

i called the office and inquired about the "prosecutor" option and guess what kind of an answer i got. "it is what it called, you'll see the prosecutor"

gee thanks, like i didn't know that already.

however, it is like a first attendance in toronto, where you try to defend yourself and if you don't like the results you can proceed to court.

but i didn't get to deep into my questionaire, in which case i would've asked if i can request disclosure or not, as i have to make an appointment to see the prosecutor. and i wonder how long the estimated waiting period is in Kitchener to receive a court date is. since toronto its an average of 6-8 months due to the volume of traffic tickets that are issued.

now my other question would be, should i go out full force by taking pictures of the distance, with estimated distance from me pulling out of the gas station, to at which point i actually stop prior to being flagged over. cause i stopped at least 6-7 car lengths before there actual spot. as i came to a complete stop and switch 3 lanes over and parked next to them.

i wouldn't have the pictures processed but it'll be on the digital camera along with my receipts stating i purchased gas at the station and would prove my exit point with partial distance.

thanks, might try the prosecutor route and see what happens, if not i'll go straight to the trial.


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PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2009 9:42 pm 
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so for the prosecutor option, i have to go in, set up an appointment, just like a normal trial, and wait until i get a date, and if i don't like the results, i can proceed to a trial.


now should i exercise this option, or should i go straight to trial, they said its estimated to go to trail around September.

i can also request a full disclosure for the prosecutor appointment.

any advice would be helpful thanks.


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PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2009 1:01 am 
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1. Request a trial.

2. Request disclosure.

3. (optional) meet with the prosecutor (a first attendance meeting) to try and REDUCE the charge. The chances of them dropping it are very low.

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PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2009 4:04 am 
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okay so i requested a trial.

i would get a trial date approximately for september.

now do i wait until i get the court date to request full disclosure or do i request it now?

and the cop is going to likely show up as the police station is right next to the court house and they i only have one court room.


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