Our website is made possible by displaying online advertisements to our visitors.
Please consider supporting us by disabling your ad blocker.

Ontario Highway Traffic Act

Discuss the Ontario Highway Traffic Act.


Post Your Traffic Ticket, and Get Help!


The Ontario Traffic Ticket Forum!


All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 10 posts ] 
Check It Out
No unread posts New Set Fines Starting Sept 1st, 2015! Read and Learn Here.
  Print view

Need help with Court date on Jan 18 and discuss preperation
Author Message
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 10:37 am 
Offline
Newbie

Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2012 10:17 am
Posts: 7
Hi

I got two tickets in April 2012 for:
1. Speeding 82km in a 50 zone.
2. Failure to produce driving license. I had left the wallet had home

Here is my subsequent action:
1. File notice for trial for both tickets immediately.
2. Received court date in Oct for Jan 18, 2013. Immediately filed first disclosure request.
3. Filed 2nd disclosure request on Nov 16, 2012.
4. Received a letter from prosecutor that disclosure is ready. I picked up disclosure on Nov 20th.
5. I had requested prosecution for many things including copy of ticket, copy of notes, calibration records, maintenance records etc,

The prosecution provided only the following:
1. Copy of officer notes - totally illegible and had all short forms etc.( I had requested typed version with explanation of all notes)
2. Copy of notes of an unrelated ticket. The clerk told me this for the time the lidar was calibrated and model number. It was ultralyte LRB. I am not sure if this is admissible since it gives a reference to another car

The other information that I requested like copy of ticket, maintenance records/ calibration records, witness will say statements, officer training records,etc was not provided.


On December 25th I sent another fax to prosecutor stating that disclosure was not complete and requested them so send me the missing information. I could not send it earlier since I was away on business trip between Nov 20th and Dec 20th (can provide copy of air ticket to prosecutor)

My plan is as follows:
In the next week I intend to file form 4F asking to stay the charge to be received by them 15 days before. I will file this form personally.

MY question is :
1. Am I on the right path?
2. Will I expect a push back from prosecutor on Jan 18th, 2013?
3. Is there something else I can do?


Top
 Profile  
 
Re: Need help with Court date on Jan 18 and discuss preperat
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 4:44 pm 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2011 11:31 am
Posts: 682
The other information that I requested like copy of ticket, maintenance records/ calibration records, witness will say statements, officer training records,etc was not provided.

1)You have a copy of the ticket. (Unless of course you turned it in without making your own copy first)
2)Maintenance/calibration records you will generally not get
3) There are no will say statements for tickets, just the officers notes.
4) You wont get training records.


Top
 Profile  
 
Re: Need help with Court date on Jan 18 and discuss preperat
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 6:29 pm 
Offline
Newbie

Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2012 10:17 am
Posts: 7
Hi

I have my copy of the ticket but I had specifically asked for copy of officers ticket since it could be different. Also, I assume that I am entitled to explanation of all the short forms used in disclosure since as a common man I do not understand the abbreviations. I had specifically asked that the officers notes be typed up and all abbreviations be explained.

Has anyone filed form 4F under section 7 ?


Top
 Profile  
 
Re: Need help with Court date on Jan 18 and discuss preperat
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 7:23 pm 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2011 11:31 am
Posts: 682
The officers ticket is a carbon copy of what you have.
Common practice of most courts is to simply give a copy of the officers notes as part of disclosure. A second request is required if the officers notes are not legible and/or abbreviations need to be explained.


Top
 Profile  
 
Re: Need help with Court date on Jan 18 and discuss preperat
PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 8:10 am 
Offline
Newbie

Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2012 10:17 am
Posts: 7
Should I go ahead and file form 4F for violation of CHarter under section 7 since I have sent them 3 reminders for disclosure (the last one pointing out deficiency in their disclosure) or is it an overkill?


Top
 Profile  
 
Re: Need help with Court date on Jan 18 and discuss preperat
PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 7:45 pm 
Offline
VIP
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 30, 2010 10:20 am
Posts: 1065
What would be the basis for your s. 7 application? What is it your are claiming is violating your right to full answer and defence? Also, what remedy are you applying for? A stay of proceedings? or disclosure of the items you are asking for? These are the things you need to be clear on if you are considering bringing a s. 7 application. I would suggest it is probably premature to bring it though if you haven't received a final answer from the crown - for example, have you requested an explanation of the illegible parts of the notes and been denied?

_________________
http://www.boryslaw.ca
NOTHING I SAY ON HERE IS LEGAL ADVICE.


Top
 Profile  
 
Re: Need help with Court date on Jan 18 and discuss preperat
PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 7:52 pm 
Offline
Newbie

Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2012 10:17 am
Posts: 7
Simon Borys wrote:
What would be the basis for your s. 7 application? What is it your are claiming is violating your right to full answer and defence? Also, what remedy are you applying for? A stay of proceedings? or disclosure of the items you are asking for? These are the things you need to be clear on if you are considering bringing a s. 7 application. I would suggest it is probably premature to bring it though if you haven't received a final answer from the crown - for example, have you requested an explanation of the illegible parts of the notes and been denied?



On December 28th, I sent them the third fax letting them know the missing items in disclosure and that I am unable to prepare my defense in the absence of missing items. On 2nd Jan, they sent me another letter asking me to pick up the missing items. When I went to the office they just handed me the copy of my fax (yes my fax!) So basically they did not provide any further info.

By filing 4F, I am claiming violation of my rights to full answer and want a stay of proceedings.


Top
 Profile  
 
Re: Need help with Court date on Jan 18 and discuss preperat
PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 11:35 pm 
Offline
VIP
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 30, 2010 10:20 am
Posts: 1065
Normally, in a situation like this, you would bring a motion to compel the disclosure of the missing items. It's called a Stinchcombe application. The remedy if the application is granted is that you get the disclosure. You can only get a stay as a remedy in the "clearest of cases", according to the case law, where no lesser remedy would suffice. I'm not sure you're there yet.

If you do bring a Stinchcombe application you must be prepared to articulate why these items are necessary for you to make full answer and defence.

_________________
http://www.boryslaw.ca
NOTHING I SAY ON HERE IS LEGAL ADVICE.


Top
 Profile  
 
Re: Need help with Court date on Jan 18 and discuss preperat
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 3:37 pm 
Offline
Newbie

Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2012 10:17 am
Posts: 7
Can you let me know the process to make the application and where can I find form to make that motion? As far as I know that the only form available is form 4F .


Top
 Profile  
 
Re: Need help with Court date on Jan 18 and discuss preperat
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 7:22 pm 
Offline
VIP
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 30, 2010 10:20 am
Posts: 1065
There isn't just a form that you fill out for something like this. Usually you would write and file a factum, along with any supporting affidavits and other materials that form part of your application record. You may also need to file form 4F if, as it says on the forum, you are challenging the constitutional validity of a particular act or section or you are seeking a remedy under s. 24(1). But don't get too caught up with the form, it's the other documents which are likely to make your argument successful. Form 4F is just an additional document providing formal notice in the above noted situations.

_________________
http://www.boryslaw.ca
NOTHING I SAY ON HERE IS LEGAL ADVICE.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 10 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Related topics
 Topics   Author   Replies   Views   Last post 
There are no new unread posts for this topic. Can we discuss Debit Card Skimming on here?

Marquisse

3

423

Tue Apr 13, 2010 4:32 pm

Radar Identified View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. court will notify 3-6 mo. about court DATE

rmyly

1

552

Fri Jan 13, 2012 11:40 am

daggx View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Court date - How to tell if Officer is in court?

[ Go to pageGo to page: 1, 2 ]

t3ch9

18

1057

Wed Feb 08, 2017 9:07 pm

jsherk View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Court date

bengaluru

3

631

Tue Sep 21, 2010 12:51 pm

Reflections View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. What can be done before court date?

StressedInBath

1

722

Tue Sep 20, 2011 9:22 pm

Simon Borys View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Pushing up the court date?

FiReSTaRT

11

2247

Fri Apr 17, 2009 12:28 pm

FiReSTaRT View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. once i got my appeal date --what happens at court?

Off_Camber

10

3544

Mon Feb 22, 2010 1:34 pm

ManlyMinute View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. court date next week, please help.

sk8er938

1

597

Thu May 13, 2010 3:06 am

Simon Borys View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Court Date 1+ year old

jamesjones

3

744

Fri Aug 27, 2010 10:04 pm

Reflections View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Disclosure and court date

Ultralyte

10

1205

Tue Nov 30, 2010 3:44 pm

Radar Identified View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. DECEMBER 1 COURT DATE - HELP

jennifer123

4

532

Thu Dec 01, 2011 12:26 am

Stanton View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Court Date Postponement

Terry John

1

684

Tue Aug 13, 2013 8:06 pm

xofeliciaxo View the latest post

 


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Web Development & Search Engine Optimization
Home | Court Listings | Ontario Traffic Ticket

Copyright 2007 - 2017 © Microtekblue Inc. Web Development & Search Engine Optimization Service. We Support phpBB All Rights Reserved.