Need help with Court date on Jan 18 and discuss preperation

qwert97
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 7
Joined:

Need help with Court date on Jan 18 and discuss preperation

Unread post by qwert97 on

Hi

I got two tickets in April 2012 for:
1. Speeding 82km in a 50 zone.
2. Failure to produce driving license. I had left the wallet had home

Here is my subsequent action:
1. File notice for trial for both tickets immediately.
2. Received court date in Oct for Jan 18, 2013. Immediately filed first disclosure request.
3. Filed 2nd disclosure request on Nov 16, 2012.
4. Received a letter from prosecutor that disclosure is ready. I picked up disclosure on Nov 20th.
5. I had requested prosecution for many things including copy of ticket, copy of notes, calibration records, maintenance records etc,

The prosecution provided only the following:
1. Copy of officer notes - totally illegible and had all short forms etc.( I had requested typed version with explanation of all notes)
2. Copy of notes of an unrelated ticket. The clerk told me this for the time the lidar was calibrated and model number. It was ultralyte LRB. I am not sure if this is admissible since it gives a reference to another car

The other information that I requested like copy of ticket, maintenance records/ calibration records, witness will say statements, officer training records,etc was not provided.


On December 25th I sent another fax to prosecutor stating that disclosure was not complete and requested them so send me the missing information. I could not send it earlier since I was away on business trip between Nov 20th and Dec 20th (can provide copy of air ticket to prosecutor)

My plan is as follows:
In the next week I intend to file form 4F asking to stay the charge to be received by them 15 days before. I will file this form personally.

MY question is :
1. Am I on the right path?
2. Will I expect a push back from prosecutor on Jan 18th, 2013?
3. Is there something else I can do?


User avatar
Decatur
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 697
Joined:

Posting Awards

Moderator

Unread post by Decatur on

The other information that I requested like copy of ticket, maintenance records/ calibration records, witness will say statements, officer training records,etc was not provided.

1)You have a copy of the ticket. (Unless of course you turned it in without making your own copy first)
2)Maintenance/calibration records you will generally not get
3) There are no will say statements for tickets, just the officers notes.
4) You wont get training records.


qwert97
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 7
Joined:

Unread post by qwert97 on

Hi

I have my copy of the ticket but I had specifically asked for copy of officers ticket since it could be different. Also, I assume that I am entitled to explanation of all the short forms used in disclosure since as a common man I do not understand the abbreviations. I had specifically asked that the officers notes be typed up and all abbreviations be explained.

Has anyone filed form 4F under section 7 ?


User avatar
Decatur
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 697
Joined:

Posting Awards

Moderator

Unread post by Decatur on

The officers ticket is a carbon copy of what you have.
Common practice of most courts is to simply give a copy of the officers notes as part of disclosure. A second request is required if the officers notes are not legible and/or abbreviations need to be explained.


qwert97
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 7
Joined:

Unread post by qwert97 on

Should I go ahead and file form 4F for violation of CHarter under section 7 since I have sent them 3 reminders for disclosure (the last one pointing out deficiency in their disclosure) or is it an overkill?


User avatar
Simon Borys
VIP
VIP
Posts: 1065
Joined:
Contact:

Unread post by Simon Borys on

What would be the basis for your s. 7 application? What is it your are claiming is violating your right to full answer and defence? Also, what remedy are you applying for? A stay of proceedings? or disclosure of the items you are asking for? These are the things you need to be clear on if you are considering bringing a s. 7 application. I would suggest it is probably premature to bring it though if you haven't received a final answer from the crown - for example, have you requested an explanation of the illegible parts of the notes and been denied?
http://www.boryslaw.ca
NOTHING I SAY ON HERE IS LEGAL ADVICE.


qwert97
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 7
Joined:

Unread post by qwert97 on

Simon Borys wrote:What would be the basis for your s. 7 application? What is it your are claiming is violating your right to full answer and defence? Also, what remedy are you applying for? A stay of proceedings? or disclosure of the items you are asking for? These are the things you need to be clear on if you are considering bringing a s. 7 application. I would suggest it is probably premature to bring it though if you haven't received a final answer from the crown - for example, have you requested an explanation of the illegible parts of the notes and been denied?

On December 28th, I sent them the third fax letting them know the missing items in disclosure and that I am unable to prepare my defense in the absence of missing items. On 2nd Jan, they sent me another letter asking me to pick up the missing items. When I went to the office they just handed me the copy of my fax (yes my fax!) So basically they did not provide any further info.

By filing 4F, I am claiming violation of my rights to full answer and want a stay of proceedings.


User avatar
Simon Borys
VIP
VIP
Posts: 1065
Joined:
Contact:

Unread post by Simon Borys on

Normally, in a situation like this, you would bring a motion to compel the disclosure of the missing items. It's called a Stinchcombe application. The remedy if the application is granted is that you get the disclosure. You can only get a stay as a remedy in the "clearest of cases", according to the case law, where no lesser remedy would suffice. I'm not sure you're there yet.

If you do bring a Stinchcombe application you must be prepared to articulate why these items are necessary for you to make full answer and defence.
http://www.boryslaw.ca
NOTHING I SAY ON HERE IS LEGAL ADVICE.


qwert97
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 7
Joined:

Unread post by qwert97 on

Can you let me know the process to make the application and where can I find form to make that motion? As far as I know that the only form available is form 4F .


User avatar
Simon Borys
VIP
VIP
Posts: 1065
Joined:
Contact:

Unread post by Simon Borys on

There isn't just a form that you fill out for something like this. Usually you would write and file a factum, along with any supporting affidavits and other materials that form part of your application record. You may also need to file form 4F if, as it says on the forum, you are challenging the constitutional validity of a particular act or section or you are seeking a remedy under s. 24(1). But don't get too caught up with the form, it's the other documents which are likely to make your argument successful. Form 4F is just an additional document providing formal notice in the above noted situations.




http://www.boryslaw.ca
NOTHING I SAY ON HERE IS LEGAL ADVICE.


Post Reply

Return to “Exceeding the speed limit by 30 to 49 km/h”