The officer seems to have written "60" where "50" should appear in the calibration section of the disclosure sheet. Is it a viable defense to claim that the radar unit might have been out of calibration?

Topic
by: ElectricMayhem on
18 Replies
Post ReplyCalibration discrepancy or sloppy writing - viable defence?
The officer seems to have written "60" where "50" should appear in the calibration section of the disclosure sheet. Is it a viable defense to claim that the radar unit might have been out of calibration?

Re: Calibration discrepancy or sloppy writing - viable defen
just to clarify for you it is not a "calibration" section.
It is the speedometer comparison section, which is the correlation between the speedometer and the reading on the "patrol" area of the radar, which confirms the unit is working properly. Now is the unit malfunctioning at 50km/hr or did the officer error and perform the test at 60/hr instead of 50km/hr as in the typed version of the notes? Appears the 80km/hr is proper.
Re: Calibration discrepancy or sloppy writing - viable defen
It certainly looks more like 60 then 50. If the officer testified at trial that there was a discrepancy between the radar/speedometer, that would certainly raise reasonable doubt, but more likely they'll just confirm it's a sloppy 50. An experienced paralegal might get a bit more mileage out of a mistake like that, but I'm not sure it's enough on its own if the officer confirms it should read 50.
Re: Calibration discrepancy or sloppy writing - viable defen
Without any context, I would definitely think 60 at first glance. But if you look carefully, there is an extra stroke at the top of the first digit, almost making the 0 look like an 8. Also, notice how straight the horizontal stroke is - most people would not pause on the loop of a 6 in order to straighten out the top.
It looks like a '5' written with one of those gel pens where the ink follows for a long time after a pen lift. You can certainly call it into question but I think, like Stanton, that the officer will just confirm that it is '50'.
Re: Calibration discrepancy or sloppy writing - viable defen
Oh PLEASE!
Using a speedometer to "calibrate" or even "verify" a laser unit is like using your foot to calibrate/verify a tape measure. It's even less pertinent than the self-check. OK, the speedo and the radar agree, but which one would be taken out of service if they didn't? Without independent certified calibrations to trace to Known Standards, the very real possibility exists that they are both wrong.
The speedometer is subject to so many potential and unknowable errors as to be only a rough indication of road speed. Tire wear, tire slippage due to different pavements, headwinds as well as lag on speed change, just to name a quick few.
And strapping the car to a dynamometer is no guarantee of true speed indication either. How does the coefficient of friction between the tire and the driven drum compare to actual pavement and driving conditions? When was the dynomometer last calibrated, by what lab and how?
Although none of this may be of any use when speaking to a JP/judge with zero measurement expertise, it goes to the question of enforcement/prosecution being held to the same standard of diligence and compliance as all other industries/services.
Good luck.
Re: Calibration discrepancy or sloppy writing - viable defen
That's funny. I don't see any mention of a "laser" being used or anything on the disclosure about "calibration" I see a Decatur Electronics Genesis II being used.
Re: Calibration discrepancy or sloppy writing - viable defen
Watcher, your opinions are well known, but those standards go well beyond what the Court requires, and aren't really much help to the OP. You're correct in that he'd probably have no chance of using those thoughts as an actual defence in Court, whereas a discrepancy between the speedo/radar would be accepted, regardless of scientific merit. I just want that clear for the OP if/when he goes to Court. To challenge the entire standards used for speed measurement would not be a matter for the faint of heart. You'd require a supreme understanding of the topic and lots of patience to fight the Crown tooth and nail (assuming they simply don't withdraw the charge). It would make for an interesting case though, I'd watch it. ![]()
Re: Calibration discrepancy or sloppy writing - viable defen
At least whoever created the form got it right, calling it "comparison" not calibration. But it gets treated as a calibration, as there is no actual calibration. Sorry, no points this round.
Why should the defendant have to educate the police, prosecution and court on such a basic concept? Those who dare to judge must first judge themselves.
Real simple, ANY measuring device MUST be independently compared to a more accurate/precise known, traceable standard on a regular basis. Documentation to certify this was done must be maintained and be available upon request. Certifications/calibrations older than one years don't count except to support current certifications/calibrations. Operators must do regular standardized tests/checks to detect any out-of-tolerance variation in readings, but these do not replace regular certified calibrations.
What is SO hard about that?
As to the OP's issue, I'll leave the handwriting analysis and inevitable legal loophole gyrations to more qualified people. I only know about silly stuff like measzurin thingys.
Re: Calibration discrepancy or sloppy writing - viable defen
Decatur wrote:
That's funny. I don't see any mention of a "laser" being used or anything on the disclosure about "calibration" I see a Decatur Electronics Genesis II being used.
That's very funny... to me all those Magic Speed Reading Boxes are the same, no matter which electronics company made them. They could use psychic energy to measure speed and tarot cards for calibration for all I care. As long as you can find an independent lab to certify the Magic Boxes read speed correctly every time they are used under all potential operating conditions, I'm a happy camper.
Radar, laser, speedometer, stopwatch... whatever... if it ain't independently certified/calibrated it could be wrong.
Re: Calibration discrepancy or sloppy writing - viable defen
hwybear wrote:
just to clarify for you it is not a "calibration" section.
It is the speedometer comparison section, which is the correlation between the speedometer and the reading on the "patrol" area of the radar
Just to clarify for you, whenever you compare the reading of a measuring device to a reference you trust for the purpose of adjusting the scale or deciding whether it's garbage, what you are doing is called "calibration," at least where I went to engineering school.
The prosecutor was quite intimidating before the trial, saying that the court always goes his way and he would raise the charge, which the court always allows (it did).
I ended up winning, emphasizing that there was reasonable doubt that the unit was functioning properly. As for the 80 being correct, I simply said that even a broken watch is correct twice a day.
Good luck to anyone in a similar situation that reads this in the future!
Re: Calibration discrepancy or sloppy writing - viable defen
ElectricMayhem wrote:
hwybear wrote:
just to clarify for you it is not a "calibration" section.
It is the speedometer comparison section, which is the correlation between the speedometer and the reading on the "patrol" area of the radar
Just to clarify for you, whenever you compare the reading of a measuring device to a reference you trust for the purpose of adjusting the scale or deciding whether it's garbage, what you are doing is called "calibration," at least where I went to engineering school.
that is not how the manuals are written, nor how the course is taught, nor can a speedometer calibrate a radar
Re: Calibration discrepancy or sloppy writing - viable defen
I would have to with Squishy and say that the number we are talking about is a 5, if you look closely you will see that what looks like the back part of a 6 is actually the letter "r" from the end of the word radar on the form. I think all that has happened here is that the officer wrote the number 50 a little too close to the edge of the space and it overlapped the word radar a bit.
Re: Calibration discrepancy or sloppy writing - viable defen
hwybear wrote:
nor can a speedometer calibrate a radar
![]()
The only time this would be a true "calibration" is if the officer subsequently started tinkering with the radar after there was a discrepancy with the speedometer reading.
Anyway the officer's notes made it look more like a "60" instead of "50" so reasonable doubt was raised in this case in my opinion...
Re: Calibration discrepancy or sloppy writing - viable defen
Radar Identified wrote:
hwybear wrote:
nor can a speedometer calibrate a radar
The only time this would be a true "calibration" is if the officer subsequently started tinkering with the radar after there was a discrepancy with the speedometer reading. .
you got it backwards....we carry the multi-tool so back in the old day we put on a set of coveralls, go under the car and readjust the speedometer cable
however modern technology is a little easier with the pop open dash panels, so reach in and just readjust, kinda like the clock on the wall
![]()
Re: Calibration discrepancy or sloppy writing - viable defen
Looks like 60 to me
Re: Calibration discrepancy or sloppy writing - viable defen
Reflections wrote:
Looks like 60 to me
How about now? ![]()

Re: Calibration discrepancy or sloppy writing - viable defen
That's tampering with evidence.
![]()
Re: Calibration discrepancy or sloppy writing - viable defen
Enhancing the evidence.
![]()
Re: Calibration discrepancy or sloppy writing - viable defen
"Enhancing" the Crown's case by "tampering" with the evidence. ![]()
TORONTO STAR 6MAY10
Tony Van Alphen
Business Reporter
The Mazda dealership in Orangeville may have given new meaning to the automakers slogan of "zoom, zoom, zoom" for motorist Madeline Leonard.
Leonard walked into the dealership wanting to replace the tires on her 2004 car.
By the time she left she was on the hook for a spiffy, black 2010 Mazda6 sedan at the eye-popping price of almost $66,000, after…
The fine is not the issue but I am worried about insurance rates. First speeding ticket in my life
Any suggestions on how to handle this? I can't afford to spend a day at the court
![]()
So was at court today in Orillia for a friend, and I had submitted a couple notice of motion a couple weeks ago that I wanted to deal with before arraignment. I met with prosecutor before hand, and it went something like this:
Prosecutor: "Do you have the case law?"
Me: "What do you mean?"
Prosecutor: "Do you have the case law for your motion?"
Me: "All the case law is quoted in the motion that I…
ok so I do have some weblinks to explore, but your personal advise as always is welcome
* I want to get a dashcam for my car, any recomendations OR suppliers in the Miss. area or general GTA ?
Question
If I'm in an accident and say police attend, if I say (lets say it's not my fault) hey I have dashcam footage.
would they confiscate it because it's potential evidence.
I'd want to view any footage…
So I got one two weeks ago on a nice Friday 13th... ![]()
Last week I went to the Offences Office and submitted Option 3 (plead not guilty). Trial date to be sent in approximately 6 months.
My intention is to delay as much as I can.
When should I request the disclosure?
According to Ticket Combat, it should be done right away.
I called the office this morning and the lady said I should wait a few…
I have a trial tomorrow for two tickets
1)failure to change address on license (i got married a couple of months earlier and moved)
2) license plate not fully visible
I got pulled over because I had 2 letters peeling off my license plate. I know ignorance isn't a defense, but I really had no idea that this was an issue. Plus, you see many cars on the road with peeling plates. I got both tickets and…
Planning on going to the US (NY from TO) for about a week, next year;
so some questions and points,
1> Do I need to get special cover from my insurance
2> My car speedo is in KM's , would it help to put a couple of stickers to note where the MPH limits are
3> IF I get a ticket, do I have to go back to NY, to deal with it?
4> If I ignore it can I be extradited or fined…
I was driving around 140km/h on a 100km/h posted on the highway. I was in the fast lane. The officer was very nice and reduced it to no points and just 15km/h over.
I only have my G2.
1. Will this affect me taking the G test next month?
2. I am very grateful for the officer lowering the ticket... should I just pay the 52.5$ and leave it as is.. I am a secondary driver under my dads name and we have…
Hi, thanks in advance for the help. Been driving for 10 years, clean record until today when I got slapped with two tickets. First: going 135 at 100 on the 401, second: not having a valid sticker (I recently moved and completely forgot about it)
My friend tells me I should fight the speed ticket, if anything to reduce the fine and points. Would be alot of help if anyone could walk me through…
so I have a cell phone on a dash mount, (so I can see it)
I have a bluetooth handsfree in the visor.
If I'm driving, and the phone goes, if I press the button on the bluetooth device to take a call and just talk into the mic
Will you be ticketed ?
I think you can set it for auto or voice answer but my phone doesnt support that
Also I heard somewhere that you can't have the phone in sight ?
Is talking…
My wife, who has never had a traffic ticket in her life, just got 11 points.
Two tickets: "following too closely" and "failure to stop"
She was on a residential street and was behind a car at a crosswalk waiting for a pedestrian. Pedestrian crossed, they continued. Cop was drivig towards them down a side street , and as they passed he went after my wife.
At the next block there was a red light.…
I was driving on Hwy 401 Cambridge at 5PM.
I was driving in mid lane and was following a line of cars around speed limit.
The vehicle in front of me was large and I decided to change to the left lane to get better line sight.
As soon as I entered the left lane, I saw the car in front of me approximately 200m away stopped dead (for some odd reason, there was more traffic on the left lane).
I hit the…
Over the last few months I have received several parking tickets from the City of Kitchener. I haven't paid any of them and have attempted to dicuss the situation with the parking authority of the City, however, they're very unreceptive and defensive.
I work at a downtown construction site....ironically a Court House. The site takes up a whole city block, of which ONE side has 2 hour parking…
Here's my story:
I was driving on a teusday night in the rain and fog at whites and highview by St. Mary CSS in Pickering, ON. At the time I was waiting at a red light to make a left north onto whites. There was also a car on the opposite side of the intersection making a left. The cars beams were pointed almost directly at my face and as a result, with the combination of the rain and fog, I…
Cop pulls over an ambulance for not "yielding" to him while there is a patient in the ambulance!
Hi
I am new to this website and this is my first post so please forgive me if I've put this question in the wrong place. Please bear with me until I learn the ropes a bit.
So here are my questions:
Antique cars and hot rods (1930's- early '60's) and seat belt use in Ontario. If these vehicles never came from the respective factories with any seat belts, do they have to be retrofitted ?
Can an…
OK so Jshreck has been taking some heat for the concept of providing the DL as being not required and therefore inadmissable in court. Personally, I think that argument would fall on deaf ears in the lower court and any chance at victory would have to be in the highest court. That would be quite something. When pigs fly I think, but along that line of thought, allow me to continue.......
Back…
Hello everyone,
I have a court date soon and am wondering whether the officers just read off their disclosure notes when interrogated.
Basically, according to the disclosure notes and the said distances and speeds quoted, by doing some simple math it just doesn't add up. My concern is whether the officer can change his story when on the stand after maybe realizing this?
Thanks in advance for your…
Hello Everyone,
Last week I was driving home from college in the sauga area. I drive a 1995 Chevy Monte Carlo v6 which I've owned since 2000, I really haven't done anything to the car except tinted windows (not completely darken) and some rims, and Nothing Engine wise. Anyway I look in my rear view mirror and out of no where i see cherry flashing. When pulled over the officer asked do you…
I was charged 2 days ago with RED LIGHT - FAIL TO STOP and set fined $150 and I guess 3 points. I was driving turning left on the intersection with a traffic light, and when I jst about to turn left the light turned to orange and I didn't have enough time to stop. Once I turned I saw the light turned to red and 2seconds later I saw a police beacon flashing through my rear-view mirror. It…
Failure to sign permit in ink - $110 fine.
I figured pleading not guilty is the same as saying it was signed which is stupid. A friend of mine told me I could plead guilty with explanation and try to get the fine reduced when I come in.
Can anyone comment on this, is this true at all?
So this Friday I was stopped by a local officer for going 110 in a 80zone. He also claims I was going 105 in a 50zone,which we literally passed when he stopped me as I was braking. It has been 3 days already and I can't seem to locate my ticket on their Internet site "pay ticket". Is there a way to determine if he has filed for certificate of offence to the courts? It has been 3 days I presume…
In point form ONLY.....maximum of 5, what is your pet peeves of other drivers...
*********************
1 - Fail to Move LEFT
2 - drinking and driving
3 - expired plates
4 - follow too close
5 - no parking zones
Hi,
My trial date is in a couple days for a speeding ticket (york region) and i am nervous it is my first ticket ever as well as first trial
I did notice my ticket was filed beyond 7 days, 10 days after the day i got the ticket to be exact, which is stamped on the ticket. is this enough to have it dismissed?
Early morning sunrise and t-storm to the south.
Right place, right time and a clean car!!
If you look close enough, beside the drivers' side "A" pillar you will see a white circle = front antenna of Genesis radar......plus look above the dash pad...there is the Spectre RDD.
