Hi, I have been through as many related posts as I could and would still like to ask for input. First of all, let me say I understand that I turned left and ultimately I am responsible for seeing the sign. However, I have two issues with my ticket: 1. The infraction. I was travelling south on Hwy 400 and exited at the Hwy 88 Bradford exit about 5:00pm yesterday. I am not from the area and was trying to follow my GPS. As I got half way up the ramp, I noticed two vehicles and a Police bike immediately to the left - where I would be turning. My complete focus at this point became "is there and accident?, can I still get passed, do I have to go right?" Pulling up to hwy 88, I stopped, assessed that the vehicles were mostly on the shoulder and I could proceed. I saw the officer and his bike and was remarking to my young son to look out the window at the police bike as the officer appeared and motioned me over. Eventually he came to the car and told me why I was pulled over, I said I hadn't noticed the sign and that I was looking at him and my son commented on the bike (sitting on the shoulder). He commented that I could get out and take him back to see it (!!) He finished with the 2 cars that were there and then came back to the bike to give me my ticket. He said "there are 3 options on the back, would you like me to take a picture of you and your son on the bike?" I mentioned to him that the signs must be really effective if he can stand beside them and still have a Tim horton's line up up of people violating them in his presence. He went on to tell me how dangerous this bridge was and that only 3 weeks ago a lady was t-boned there (the bridge that now housed my son and I and him (taking pictures). Just to fill out the info, there is a standard sign just behind the stop sign and one across on the other side of Hwy 88, nesteled in with a bunch of other markers and signs. He created the distraction (and IMHO an unsafe environment) when he could have set-up passed the bridge and pulled people over where it was safer. Is his distraction a reasonable defence? 2. The Bull I have since found out that there is a second exit for people exiting east and that the first has been a no left turn for a very long time. Well it isn't working as this officer proved in spades. Standing there lightening people's pockets is not going to save lives! If people are still turning left, the answer failed - take out the left turn lane, put yellow barrels there with a sign, rework the road to blend right only (as it is on the other side of the bridge) This spot is a cash grab fishing hole sold on the guise of safety - it's not any safer.
Hi, I have been through as many related posts as I could and would still like to ask for input.
First of all, let me say I understand that I turned left and ultimately I am responsible for seeing the sign. However, I have two issues with my ticket:
1. The infraction.
I was travelling south on Hwy 400 and exited at the Hwy 88 Bradford exit about 5:00pm yesterday. I am not from the area and was trying to follow my GPS. As I got half way up the ramp, I noticed two vehicles and a Police bike immediately to the left - where I would be turning. My complete focus at this point became "is there and accident?, can I still get passed, do I have to go right?" Pulling up to hwy 88, I stopped, assessed that the vehicles were mostly on the shoulder and I could proceed. I saw the officer and his bike and was remarking to my young son to look out the window at the police bike as the officer appeared and motioned me over. Eventually he came to the car and told me why I was pulled over, I said I hadn't noticed the sign and that I was looking at him and my son commented on the bike (sitting on the shoulder). He commented that I could get out and take him back to see it (!!)
He finished with the 2 cars that were there and then came back to the bike to give me my ticket. He said "there are 3 options on the back, would you like me to take a picture of you and your son on the bike?" I mentioned to him that the signs must be really effective if he can stand beside them and still have a Tim horton's line up up of people violating them in his presence. He went on to tell me how dangerous this bridge was and that only 3 weeks ago a lady was t-boned there (the bridge that now housed my son and I and him (taking pictures). Just to fill out the info, there is a standard sign just behind the stop sign and one across on the other side of Hwy 88, nesteled in with a bunch of other markers and signs.
He created the distraction (and IMHO an unsafe environment) when he could have set-up passed the bridge and pulled people over where it was safer. Is his distraction a reasonable defence?
2. The Bull
I have since found out that there is a second exit for people exiting east and that the first has been a no left turn for a very long time. Well it isn't working as this officer proved in spades. Standing there lightening people's pockets is not going to save lives! If people are still turning left, the answer failed - take out the left turn lane, put yellow barrels there with a sign, rework the road to blend right only (as it is on the other side of the bridge)
This spot is a cash grab fishing hole sold on the guise of safety - it's not any safer.
google maps - street view - when stopped at the proper stopped position both signs would be visible
Torgos_12 wrote:
Hi,Just to fill out the info, there is a standard sign just behind the stop sign and one across on the other side of Hwy 88, nesteled in with a bunch of other markers and signs.
google maps - street view - when stopped at the proper stopped position both signs would be visible
Last edited by hwybear on Tue Apr 06, 2010 4:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Above is merely a suggestion/thought and in no way constitutes legal advice or views of my employer. www.OHTA.ca
Not in this case. Best thing to do, file for the trial option. You might be able to plea-bargain this down to a by-law infraction (doesn't affect your driver record). After you get a trial date set, you can file for disclosure. Disclosure of the Crown's case against you would also show how good the officer's notes were, although they don't have to be extensive for this case.
Torgos_12 wrote:
Is his distraction a reasonable defence?
Not in this case.
Best thing to do, file for the trial option. You might be able to plea-bargain this down to a by-law infraction (doesn't affect your driver record). After you get a trial date set, you can file for disclosure. Disclosure of the Crown's case against you would also show how good the officer's notes were, although they don't have to be extensive for this case.
* The above is NOT legal advice. By acting on anything I have said, you assume responsibility for any outcome and consequences. *
http://www.OntarioTicket.com OR http://www.OHTA.ca
@FyreStorm: I'm not going to connect all the dots, but if you generate revenue for the corporation that employs you and pays your salary... besides as one cop told me "quotas, no, but you sure better be able to justify why you were parked there for 4 hours." So I don't think they want spots like this to dry up. In fairness, it's not the officers fault that the problem persists but since it only benefits the public to fix it, it doesn't get fixed. Unfortunately it's going to take one death too many before this gets the proper attention and some local politician uses it to bolster his/her popularity. @hwybear: (respectfully) Thanks but I never contested the visibility of the signs, but since you took the time to post a reply - go back to your street view and pull up to the line. The camera on these cars is mounted on the roof - ie slightly behind where the driver is. Pan down and notice the line is still well ahead of the vehicle. Now pan right and notice that the sign is behind you. @Radar Identified: Thank you very kindly for the useful information. Will there be instructions for submitting a disclosure request when I get the trial date or should I know how to do that on my own. Also, how/who do I contact for a plea bargain?
@FyreStorm: I'm not going to connect all the dots, but if you generate revenue for the corporation that employs you and pays your salary... besides as one cop told me "quotas, no, but you sure better be able to justify why you were parked there for 4 hours." So I don't think they want spots like this to dry up.
In fairness, it's not the officers fault that the problem persists but since it only benefits the public to fix it, it doesn't get fixed. Unfortunately it's going to take one death too many before this gets the proper attention and some local politician uses it to bolster his/her popularity.
@hwybear: (respectfully) Thanks but I never contested the visibility of the signs, but since you took the time to post a reply - go back to your street view and pull up to the line. The camera on these cars is mounted on the roof - ie slightly behind where the driver is. Pan down and notice the line is still well ahead of the vehicle. Now pan right and notice that the sign is behind you.
@Radar Identified: Thank you very kindly for the useful information. Will there be instructions for submitting a disclosure request when I get the trial date or should I know how to do that on my own. Also, how/who do I contact for a plea bargain?
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