Hi all, Yesterday on the 401 I received two tickets: 1) Speeding over 40km/h, and 2) Drive motor vehicle, no currently validated permit. I would obviously very much like to fight both of these, and have them both dropped, since my insurance would skyrocket if not. Regarding 2), I actually did have the sticker on the license plate, but I just forgot to place it on the ownership form as well. My questions are: 1) What would be the best course of action going forward? 2) Is there any way to treat these tickets seperately? For example, could I choose option 2 for the DMV ticket, go in and show the validated permit, and have them drop that one? Then choose option 3 for the speeding ticket? Thank you.
Hi all,
Yesterday on the 401 I received two tickets:
1) Speeding over 40km/h, and
2) Drive motor vehicle, no currently validated permit.
I would obviously very much like to fight both of these, and have them both dropped, since my insurance would skyrocket if not. Regarding 2), I actually did have the sticker on the license plate, but I just forgot to place it on the ownership form as well. My questions are:
1) What would be the best course of action going forward?
2) Is there any way to treat these tickets seperately? For example, could I choose option 2 for the DMV ticket, go in and show the validated permit, and have them drop that one? Then choose option 3 for the speeding ticket?
The law was changed a few years ago and you are NOT required to have a sticker on the ownership, only on the plate, so you should definitely fight this one as it will get dropped. For speeding, you can not know how to fight it until you get disclosure. I recommend you plead not guilty and request a trial with the officer present. Once you get your notice of trial with a trial date, then you can request disclosure. Once you get the disclosure, post it here.
The law was changed a few years ago and you are NOT required to have a sticker on the ownership, only on the plate, so you should definitely fight this one as it will get dropped.
For speeding, you can not know how to fight it until you get disclosure. I recommend you plead not guilty and request a trial with the officer present. Once you get your notice of trial with a trial date, then you can request disclosure. Once you get the disclosure, post it here.
Thank you for the reply. Do you mean to select option 3 for both tickets then (I take it that's what you mean by "fight this one")? The only concern I have with that is that it might look bad in court with two tickets. Is there any way I can resolve the permit ticket without going to trial?
jsherk wrote:
The law was changed a few years ago and you are NOT required to have a sticker on the ownership, only on the plate, so you should definitely fight this one as it will get dropped.
For speeding, you can not know how to fight it until you get disclosure. I recommend you plead not guilty and request a trial with the officer present. Once you get your notice of trial with a trial date, then you can request disclosure. Once you get the disclosure, post it here.
Thank you for the reply.
Do you mean to select option 3 for both tickets then (I take it that's what you mean by "fight this one")? The only concern I have with that is that it might look bad in court with two tickets. Is there any way I can resolve the permit ticket without going to trial?
I would choose option 3 for both tickets. Since one of them is not a proper charge it will have no effect with regards to the speeding charge. Once you get your notice of trial for both tickets and request disclosure for both tickets and get the disclosure back, you can then write a letter to prosecutor asking if they will drop the permit one because it is not a proper charge.
I would choose option 3 for both tickets.
Since one of them is not a proper charge it will have no effect with regards to the speeding charge.
Once you get your notice of trial for both tickets and request disclosure for both tickets and get the disclosure back, you can then write a letter to prosecutor asking if they will drop the permit one because it is not a proper charge.
Thank you jsherk - much appreciated. Something that just came to mind - would it be possible to make a deal where I pay the permit charge, but the speeding ticket is dropped entirely? I ask because I don't believe the permit charge will affect my insurance, and if I can guarantee the speeding ticket is dropped, that would be a great relief.
jsherk wrote:
I would choose option 3 for both tickets.
Since one of them is not a proper charge it will have no effect with regards to the speeding charge.
Once you get your notice of trial for both tickets and request disclosure for both tickets and get the disclosure back, you can then write a letter to prosecutor asking if they will drop the permit one because it is not a proper charge.
Thank you jsherk - much appreciated. Something that just came to mind - would it be possible to make a deal where I pay the permit charge, but the speeding ticket is dropped entirely? I ask because I don't believe the permit charge will affect my insurance, and if I can guarantee the speeding ticket is dropped, that would be a great relief.
I wouldn't be so sure. Paperwork charges like showing your wrong insurance slip or leaving your license at home is no different than speeding 40km. All minor offenses with the same surcharge. If you want, you can contact your insurance provider and ask. I highly doubt they'd drop the speeding ticket for it anyways.
I wouldn't be so sure. Paperwork charges like showing your wrong insurance slip or leaving your license at home is no different than speeding 40km. All minor offenses with the same surcharge.
If you want, you can contact your insurance provider and ask. I highly doubt they'd drop the speeding ticket for it anyways.
If you were travelling more than 40 kms/hr over the limit there is no way they are going to drop that. The best you can reasonably hope for is a reduction to 29 kms/hr over.
If you were travelling more than 40 kms/hr over the limit there is no way they are going to drop that. The best you can reasonably hope for is a reduction to 29 kms/hr over.
Former Ontario Police Officer. Advice will become less relevant as the time goes by !
Thank you bend and argyll. So I guess the best course of action will be to fight both. Best case scenario: the permit ticket is dropped, and I can hopefully find some fault in the disclosure. More likely: the permit ticket is dropped, and I get a reduction in the speed. Does this seem reasonable?
Thank you bend and argyll. So I guess the best course of action will be to fight both.
Best case scenario: the permit ticket is dropped, and I can hopefully find some fault in the disclosure.
More likely: the permit ticket is dropped, and I get a reduction in the speed.
It would appear that the registration ticket is simply an error on the part of the officer so that can be taken out of the equation. Assuming a reasonable driving history I'd be very surprised in the Crown didn't offer you a reduction in the speed to avoid a trial. The truth is they schedule far more trials on any given day than there is time for so it is in the Cown's interest to settle cases.
It would appear that the registration ticket is simply an error on the part of the officer so that can be taken out of the equation.
Assuming a reasonable driving history I'd be very surprised in the Crown didn't offer you a reduction in the speed to avoid a trial. The truth is they schedule far more trials on any given day than there is time for so it is in the Cown's interest to settle cases.
Former Ontario Police Officer. Advice will become less relevant as the time goes by !
Once again, thank you all for the replies. I will be mailing in the ticket, with option 3 selected for both. In the case of the permit ticket, how exactly do I go about that? How exactly do I prove that there was indeed a license plate sticker, but that I just forgot to add the ownership sticker? Thank you.
Once again, thank you all for the replies. I will be mailing in the ticket, with option 3 selected for both.
In the case of the permit ticket, how exactly do I go about that? How exactly do I prove that there was indeed a license plate sticker, but that I just forgot to add the ownership sticker?
If you ask for disclosure, the officers notes should say there was not sticker on the ownership portion. Then just show them the section in the HTA that says it is not required.
If you ask for disclosure, the officers notes should say there was not sticker on the ownership portion. Then just show them the section in the HTA that says it is not required.
Just be aware that I don't believe the court decision regarding the permit having to be valid isn't a binding decision. The section you were charged with was probably 7(1)(a) it states: 7. (1) No person shall drive a motor vehicle on a highway unless, (a) there exists a currently validated permit for the vehicle; The regulation pertaining to Permits (628) has also been amended to fix the error that was in a prior version where it said that a permit "may" be validated. 6. (1) A permit for a motor vehicle shall be validated by means of evidence of validation provided by the Ministry. You still may be able to get this one dropped for a plea to the other though.
Just be aware that I don't believe the court decision regarding the permit having to be valid isn't a binding decision.
The section you were charged with was probably 7(1)(a) it states:
7. (1) No person shall drive a motor vehicle on a highway unless,
(a) there exists a currently validated permit for the vehicle;
The regulation pertaining to Permits (628) has also been amended to fix the error that was in a prior version where it said that a permit "may" be validated.
6. (1) A permit for a motor vehicle shall be validated by means of evidence of validation provided by the Ministry.
You still may be able to get this one dropped for a plea to the other though.
Yes but right under 6. (1) you need to read 6. (2) that says: "6. (2) Evidence of validation for a permit shall be affixed to a number plate for the vehicle in accordance with this Regulation, and the portion of the evidence of validation not intended for the number plate may be affixed in the appropriate space provided on the permit for the vehicle." shall means that you MUST put it on the plate and that it is required. may means that it is OPTIONAL on the permit and is not required. You don't need any court decisions, just this regulation... it is very clear that it is not required on the permit.
Decatur wrote:
Just be aware that I don't believe the court decision regarding the permit having to be valid isn't a binding decision.
Yes but right under 6. (1) you need to read 6. (2) that says:
"6. (2) Evidence of validation for a permit shall be affixed to a number plate for the vehicle in accordance with this Regulation, and the portion of the evidence of validation not intended for the number plate may be affixed in the appropriate space provided on the permit for the vehicle."
shall means that you MUST put it on the plate and that it is required.
may means that it is OPTIONAL on the permit and is not required.
You don't need any court decisions, just this regulation... it is very clear that it is not required on the permit.
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