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Ontario Highway Traffic Act

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Ticket for speeding on highway 401 (125 km/h)
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:19 pm 
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Hey,
This morning I had an exam for university. I was studying the entire night and i wanted to catch like maybe 1-2 hours of sleep before the exam so i went to sleep. I woke up like 5 hrs after and realize that I was about to miss my exam. I still could have made it so I asked my dad for his car since I was in a huge rush and he gave it to me.

I went on the highway and I was going at 135 km/h but when I speed I don't speed for long for example, I speed the car up for a couple seconds and than lessen the speed back to normal and than do that again and again. I also tend to speed up a lot when I'm changing lanes because that's just a habit for me, when I was a new driver I used to change lanes and slow down and I heard that your not supposed to do that so I made it a habit to speed a bit before changing lanes.

I was trying to merge into the express lane so as I was changing lanes I quickly speed up the car to 135 km/h, my normal driving speed is 120 km/h
So I changed the lane and merged onto the express road and this mofo behind me pulls me over, I explained my situation to him and he lessened the ticket to 125 km/h.

I told him that I only sped up to change lanes and he said he doesn't really care, speeding is speeding.

Ticket was issued by Ontario Police Officer (OPP).

What would be the best thing to do?

I'm 20 years old and insurance is already really high for me, this is going to make my insurance to a rate i can't even afford.
I was going to pay the ticket but I didn't because my friend told me the best choice is to take it too court.


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Re: Ticket for speeding on highway 401 (125 km/h)
PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 9:11 pm 
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Request a trial. Once you receive your notice of trial, request disclosure in writing and pick it up. Then, review the officer's notes for any errors. Then, attend your trial date. You might be one of only a few who get lucky if the officer doesn't show up. Don't expect any offer from the prosecution---in fact, expect that they will amend the charge back up to 135km.

If everything is in order and the officer does show up, then you can either choose to pay your ticket at the counter (as is) or if the prosecutor puts you on notice that they are 'amending' the charge back up to 135km, then simply request an adjournment (which you are entitled). That will at least buy you some more time to save up $$$ for the fine.

Then, try your luck on the 2nd appearance (maybe the officer won't show up that time). If he/she does----them simply pay your ticket at the counter and go home. Don't plead guilty in the court (since it will cost you more money that way because they use the statutory rates).

As for a defence---you have none. No one cares about your exam or your driving habits. There was nothing life-or-death that necessitated you to speed. So, plan on paying the ticket if the above tactics don't pan out for you. Good luck!


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Re: Ticket for speeding on highway 401 (125 km/h)
PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 9:49 pm 
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Don't count on an adjournment on your trial date if the officer is there and you have received your disclosure. Your trial notice is just that. The date for a trial. The JP may or may not allow a request for an adjournment.


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Re: Ticket for speeding on highway 401 (125 km/h)
PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 9:51 pm 
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Wait so is it better to just pay it, if they bring the traffic ticket back up to 135 km/h?

I didn't even think they were allowed to do that?

A friend of mine was telling me to give it to xcoppers.


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Re: Ticket for speeding on highway 401 (125 km/h)
PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 10:33 pm 
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They certainly CAN amend up and regularly do so. The Court of Appeal decision in R. v. Winlow allows that. In paragraph 75 of that decision, you will also notice that the court recommends the accused be given an adjournment when they are notified that there will be an amendment to the speed on that day. That is why I stated that you WILL get an adjournment on your first trial date.

After all, even if the officer shows up and the prosecution is ready to proceed, since you would not have had an 'early resolution meeting' and the prosecution likely would not have notified you of the amending up anytime sooner, then your "Winlow notice" would likely take place on your first trial date. As such, you'll be entitled to an adjournment (as per para 75 of Winlow).

Keep in mind though that such adjournment will not necessarily go in your favour for any section 11b (unreasonable delay) arguments. There's 2 schools of thought on that issue. Still, it buys you more time to save up for the fine and try your luck once again with the officer not appearing on the 2nd trial date.

As for going to XCoppers or another paralegal, it never hurts to hear their professional opinion. However, if everything is in order, you are unlikely to get any reduction on the speed (since you had a roadside reduction), so it likely means paying them to go to trial with not the greatest odds of success.


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Re: Ticket for speeding on highway 401 (125 km/h)
PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 10:37 pm 
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So you think it's better to just pay the ticket than risk going to court?
This happened in Scarborough btw.


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Re: Ticket for speeding on highway 401 (125 km/h)
PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 11:15 pm 
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I'm not sure this is really stressing me out because my insurance is going to go up a lot with this ticket :(
I'm only 20.


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Re: Ticket for speeding on highway 401 (125 km/h)
PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2015 12:36 pm 
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Can anyone reply and help me out?

Also I'm only 20 and currently a secondary driver on my dads vehicle, I was going to get my own car and go primary during the summer.

How much do you think this speeding ticket would increase my insurance by? 125 km/h is considered a minor.


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Re: Ticket for speeding on highway 401 (125 km/h)
PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2015 1:05 pm 
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I'm not quite sure what you want anyone to tell you. The decision really is yours to make.

It all depends upon how much time/energy you are willing to invest in this. While the likelihood of winning these types of cases are usually not much higher than say 30%, that's still enough for some folks to be willing to try their luck. If the officer did their job correctly, then its quite rare to win on these cases unless you do so by luck like the officer not showing up (which IS quite rare but can happen). A lot of folks think that arguing the device readings are the way to go, but that's really a long shot. After all, officers only need to follow the manufacturer's instructions as an operator. They don't need to be technicians nor know the inner workings of the device. Much like a microwave----you may be qualified to operate it, but that doesn't mean you need to know how to diagnose, fix or even explain how it works! :) That requires a different standard---usually requiring experts.

So, bottom line: keep a very open mind-set that your chances for winning on this are not very good. But, if you are prepared to delay and exhaust every option on the fluke that luck may come your way, then it doesn't hurt to plead not guilty and proceed. I just wouldn't invest too much money on a paralegal on this one----instead, save it to pay the fine and the higher insurance premium. As for how much your insurance will go up, no one can really answer that. It all depends upon your policy terms and your insurer.


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Re: Ticket for speeding on highway 401 (125 km/h)
PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2015 4:19 pm 
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Okay thanks for the advice.
I'm currently 20 and my insurance company told me if i keep a clean record till 25 my insurance will be super cheap.

This ticket will stay on my driving record till I'm 23 so do you think by the time I'm 25 Ill still get a cheap insurance rate?


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Re: Ticket for speeding on highway 401 (125 km/h)
PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2015 4:22 pm 
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I will most likely fight this ticket all the way though, I don't want this showing up on my insurance because my rates are already really high.


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Re: Ticket for speeding on highway 401 (125 km/h)
PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2015 5:04 pm 
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If you're found guilty or plead guilty, then you won't have a clean driving record. You would have the conviction on your driving abstract. The demerit points are removed after 2 years, but your insurance company is able to use the conviction for their purposes for longer. Some use 3 years; others use 5-7 years! Each company is different. So, I'm not quite following why you think you would still be getting super cheap insurance at 25. That would only happen if you are not guilty on any charge.

I think you need to clarify things with your insurance company. After all, I think they are merely stating that if you are clean for the next 5 years (i.e. from now when you are 20 till when you turn 25), then at 25 your rates will be cheaper. However, that wouldn't be the case if you are found guilty or plead guilty---after all, your record wouldn't have been clean for the 'previous 5 years'.


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Re: Ticket for speeding on highway 401 (125 km/h)
PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2015 8:32 pm 
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Oh okay
so if this ticket is removed from my record at age 23 (3 years), than it would count clean 5 years after that assuming i don't get anymore tickets?

So it would be 28 when my insurance goes cheaper?


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Re: Ticket for speeding on highway 401 (125 km/h)
PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2015 8:34 pm 
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I don't think they were stating that clean for the next 5 years, i think they were trying to say insurance rates are cheaper for people age 25+


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Re: Ticket for speeding on highway 401 (125 km/h)
PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2015 8:48 pm 
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Insurers do generally provide a discount to individuals 25 or over. Just as they do if you are retired, don't commute to work, have your home insurance also with them, are a university student, have been with them for several years, etc. Those are merely discounts. So, you may qualify for one or more.

However, regardless of how old a person is----if they have convictions or claims within a certain period of time they are considered higher risk---and thus their premiums are higher to reflect that higher risk. While you likely will still qualify for some of those discounts, you still end up paying more because your base premium also went up. Does this make sense? If not, let's use numbers.

Let's say you get a 10% discount when you turn 25 and let's assume your insurance currently costs : $2000.

At 25, you would get the 10% discount (which equals $200 off) and would end up paying $1,800 (i.e. $2000-$200)

However, if you had claims or convictions within the last 5 years, your insurer might say your base premium is now $2500.
At 25, you might still qualify for the 10% discount (which equals $250 (i.e. 10% of $2500)), so now you would end up paying $2,250 (that is, $2500-$250).

So, while you WOULD have paid $1,800 if you had a clean record, you end up paying $2,250 because your base premium was higher.

Bottom line: don't worry so much about what happens when you are 25---worry more about the increase to your base premiums for the next few years!


Last edited by highwaystar on Fri Feb 06, 2015 8:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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