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Ontario Highway Traffic Act

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144 (18) - Should I plea Not guilty -OR- Do Nothing?
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 3:42 pm 
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Location: milton
I was charged 2 days ago with RED LIGHT - FAIL TO STOP and set fined $150 and I guess 3 points. I was driving turning left on the intersection with a traffic light, and when I jst about to turn left the light turned to orange and I didn't have enough time to stop. Once I turned I saw the light turned to red and 2seconds later I saw a police beacon flashing through my rear-view mirror. It happened on 9:45pm when its dark and the traffic was not busy at all.
The moment the officer came he said I failed to stop on the red light. I told him that it was still orange and I didn't have enough time to stop and once I turned the light turned red. The officer insisted I was guilty and kept asking my ID and the insurance paper. Once I handed to him he left me and cameback 2' later with a ticket. My wife who sits at the back said sorry to the officer and he replied that he's talking to the driver (passanger has no right to speak?). I told him again that I was not guilty as it was still orange when I turned. He replied that I can choose option 3 for the trial and he left.
Once I got home I realized he wrote my home address incorectly. But anything-else like set fine, drive licence #, time, location, etc are correct.
After I reviewed the ticketcombat website,I read if I choose to do nothing that minor mistake of home address can become a fatal error and there's a possibility my ticket can be squash. But it also written that it depends on the decision of the person who review the ticket (or something). So there's no guarantee.
Can anyone give some sugestion what should I do?
Choose option 3 or Do Nothing?


Last edited by ohta09 on Sat Nov 21, 2009 3:03 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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Re: 144 (18) - Help / sugestion needed
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 10:59 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2008 11:31 pm
Posts: 502
ohta09 wrote:
I was charged 2 days ago with RED LIGHT - FAIL TO STOP and fined $150 and I guess 3 points. I was driving turning left on the intersection with a traffic light, and did it when the light just turned to orange and I didn't have enough time to stop. Once I turned I saw the light turned to red and 2seconds later I saw a police beacon flashing through my centre mirror. It happened on 9:45pm when its dark and the traffic was not busy at all.
The moment the officer came he said I failed to stop on the red light. I told him right away that it was still orange and I didn't have enough time to stop and once I turned the light turned red. The officer insisted I was guilty and kept asking my ID and insurance paper. But once I handed to him he left me and back to his car. He cameback 2' later with a ticket. My wife who sits at the back said sorry to the officer and he replied that he's talking to the driver (passanger has no right to speak?). I told him again that I was not guilty as it was still orange when I turned. He replied that I can choose option 3 for the trial. I said "sure, as I believe I wasn't guilty". Then he left.
Once I got home I realized he wrote my home address incorectly. But anything-else like set fine, drive licence #, time, location, etc are correct.
After I reviewed the ticketcombat website,I read if I choose to do nothing that minor mistake of home address can become a fatal error and there's a possibility my ticket can be squash. But it also written that it depends on the decision of the person who review the ticket (or something). So there's no guarantee.
Can anyone give me some opinions what should I do? Choose option 3 or Do Nothing?
Before I read the ticketcombat website I was sure to choose option 3 as I believe I was not guilty. And maybe my wife can become a witness (can she?).
But honestly I have no previous experience and Again I need some sugestions from all of you. As this is gonna be my 1st time to fight my ticket.
Thanks in advance.


Where was your car when the yellow started?(was it at,on,over the large white stop line?)
How fast were you going?

Cheers
Viper1

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"hang onto your chair when reading my posts
use at your own risk"


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Re: 144 (18) - Help / sugestion needed
PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 9:47 am 
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Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2009 11:00 am
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Location: milton
My car was at the white stop line. I was going around 40km/h
and it was late to do a full stop.

Regarding the home number error on my ticket, do you think it
can become a fatal error if I choose to "do nothing"?

thanks
-----------------------------
Where was your car when the yellow started?(was it at,on,over the large white stop line?)
How fast were you going?

Cheers
Viper1[/quote]


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 12:27 pm 
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Joined: Fri Apr 11, 2008 2:49 pm
Posts: 1490
Location: somewhere in traffic
Quote:
Regarding the home number error on my ticket, do you think it
can become a fatal error if I choose to "do nothing"?


No luck on that one.

However if you can prove that the light turned yellow the moment you entered the intersection, this ticket is toast.

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http://www.OHTA.ca OR http://www.OntarioTrafficAct.com


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Red Light ticket
PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 12:05 am 
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Joined: Sat Oct 03, 2009 8:25 pm
Posts: 97
Location: Toronto
The minor errors are not fatal to the charge, and will not get the ticket canceled. Minor mistakes are fixable by the prosecutor at the court. Take what you read on Ticket Wombat with caution, its not always right and open to interpretation...

Here is some information that might be worth reading;

The Highway Traffic Act of Ontario states,

"Every driver approaching a traffic control signal showing a circular red indication, or red light and facing the indication shall stop his or her vehicle and shall not proceed until a green indication is shown. "Ontario Highway Traffic Act Section 144.18.

As the wording for Disobeying a Red Light suggests the driver shall stop their vehicle before proceeding through a red traffic signal at an intersection.

So where exactly is a motorist suppose to stop, at the stop line, the line for the crosswalk, or when you enter the intersection? What is the rule, or what does the law say? If you don't know how do you represent yourself in traffic court... Knowing the law can win your case.

For any traffic ticket the Police and Prosecutor must prove the case beyond a reasonable doubt before a conviction can be entered against the driver. This means that the Justice of the Peace must be one hundred percent certain that the motorist committed the offence.

The police are required to prove all the essential elements of the charge described in the Ontario Highway Traffic Act. If the prosecution is not able to prove the charge beyond a reasonable doubt the Justice of the Peace should dismiss the charge.

At the court trial the police officer will have a government appointed prosecutor or lawyer to assist them as counsel.

The Court Prosecutor is the legal representative for the police and municipality, many prosecutors are actual lawyers.

The prosecutors job is to register a conviction (convict) against the motorist. Most Prosecutors are extremely fair individuals; however, they are not in court to help the driver with the traffic ticket.

For most Disobey Red Light violations the prosecutor will want to have a trial, considering a red light ticket a more serious traffic offence.

If you do not know how to run a trial, make legal arguments, or have appeared in traffic court before, the unrepresented motorist will be at a distinct disadvantage, and stands to be convicted of the red light traffic ticket.

To successfully fight a disobey red light charge trial knowledge with technical experience regarding time and distance can win your case.

For example, if a vehicle is traveling at a speed of 50km/h the vehicle is traveling at forty four feet every second. If the officer at trial says the vehicle was one car length behind the line when the light turned red, what the officer is really saying is that for .06 of a second or less the driver violated the traffic lights.

When a trial can involve technicalities of as little as .06 of a second you know that these can be technical cases,

There is a reason people hire professionals....

_________________
Chris Conway
Retired Toronto Traffic Officer, Hit & Run Squad Detective,
Breathalyzer Tech, Radar/Highway Patrol
Licenced Paralegal


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Re: Red Light ticket
PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 6:41 pm 
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Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2009 11:00 am
Posts: 4
Location: milton
I ended up plead not guilty by choosing Trial option (option3)
and challeged the officer to appear on the court.
I've never done it before and don't know what to prepare.

I just believed that I did the right thing by passing intersection
when the light suddenly turned to orange (yellow).

Anyone can give sugestion what to prepare?
Thanks!


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 11:42 pm 
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Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2008 8:26 pm
Posts: 2881
Location: Toronto
Get your trial date, and then request disclosure. Use registered mail, fax, or drop it off at the courthouse. The main thing you want here is the officer's notes. When you get the disclosure package, review it and see what the evidence is against you. Hopefully, the officer indicated in his notes that you were, as you said, already in the intersection when the light became red. If that's the case, don't say anything to the Prosecutor or anyone else. Then you can build a really straightforward defence.

To get a conviction, the officer has to testify that he clearly observed the red signal YOU were facing, and after that observed your vehicle ENTER the intersection, then he stopped you without losing sight of your vehicle, and identified you. It does have to be in that order. See what his notes say. When you have them, you can let us know and we'll try to help you prepare. The focus would be getting the officer to testify that you had already crossed the stop line when the light changed red, and then pointing out that this means that you are not guilty of the offence as charged.

Also, review all of section 144 of the HTA. This tells you about the offence you committed, and where you must stop. Take notes on it so that when the disclosure does arrive you can put together a solid defence. If the officer's notes say differently, that changes the gameplan.

_________________
* The above is NOT legal advice. By acting on anything I have said, you assume responsibility for any outcome and consequences. *
http://www.OntarioTicket.com OR http://www.OHTA.ca


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 5:58 pm 
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Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2009 11:00 am
Posts: 4
Location: milton
Thanks guys for all the info/help.
I will request for disclosure from the courthouse.
Eventhough I'm still not sure how to prepare it later, but I'll try.

Do I also need to request stays application at the same time?
I read this on ticketcombat but it didn't explain it clearly.


Last edited by ohta09 on Fri Dec 18, 2009 6:50 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 6:37 pm 
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Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2008 8:26 pm
Posts: 2881
Location: Toronto
ohta09 wrote:
I will request for disclosure and stays application from the courthouse.
Eventhough I'm still not sure how to prepare it later, but I'll try.


When you do get disclosure, post the info here (edit out the personal details) and we'll see how we can help.

_________________
* The above is NOT legal advice. By acting on anything I have said, you assume responsibility for any outcome and consequences. *
http://www.OntarioTicket.com OR http://www.OHTA.ca


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