Hello all, my husband was recently stopped by a member of the OPP SAVE team near our home while riding a "2 UP" ATV. The 2 UP is designed and comes from the manufacturer to carry a passenger but at this time is considered an ORV(off road vehicle) under the current ORV Act. Just to give a bit of background......our home is situated near an ATV trail system run by an area ATV club. There are a few entrances to get on to the trail system near by but you need to take the road to get there. Our local OPP work well with the club and don't usually stop or give anyone problems as long as your wearing a helmet and not acting stupid. There have recently been complaints by landowners of dirt bikes on the trails which aren't allowed. Being that this was in our area my husband has been patrolling the trails and on this particular day he was stopped on his way to the trail. The road that we take to the trail is an unlined township road that we drive on the shoulder until reaching the trail. The officer of this special unit was also in the area this day to set up check points due to the complaints but was not a local OPP. Though my husband explained where he was going and for what reason and the fact that the local OPP are good with it the officer was not lenient and issued to tickets. 1 for unlawfully driving ORV on highway contrary to HTA Ont Reg 316/03 and number 2 ORV speeding more than 20km/hr when speed limit is 50km/h or less, contrary to HTA Reg 316/03. My husband says he wasn't speeding because as soon as he turned onto the road you could see the checkpoint where the officer was standing in the middle of the road stopping traffic. He certainly didn't speed up to the officer. So being that this is an off road vehicle we are unsure how this affects things compared to tickets received for a regular vehicle. 1. Do we have any leg to stand on in fighting the tickets or getting them quashed? 2. How is this type offences processed and does this affect his licencing record and insurance? Any insight you can provide on the above or in general would be helpful, we are have 5 days left to choose an option for the tickets. Thank you.
Hello all, my husband was recently stopped by a member of the OPP SAVE team near our home while riding a "2 UP" ATV. The 2 UP is designed and comes from the manufacturer to carry a passenger but at this time is considered an ORV(off road vehicle) under the current ORV Act. Just to give a bit of background......our home is situated near an ATV trail system run by an area ATV club. There are a few entrances to get on to the trail system near by but you need to take the road to get there. Our local OPP work well with the club and don't usually stop or give anyone problems as long as your wearing a helmet and not acting stupid. There have recently been complaints by landowners of dirt bikes on the trails which aren't allowed. Being that this was in our area my husband has been patrolling the trails and on this particular day he was stopped on his way to the trail. The road that we take to the trail is an unlined township road that we drive on the shoulder until reaching the trail. The officer of this special unit was also in the area this day to set up check points due to the complaints but was not a local OPP. Though my husband explained where he was going and for what reason and the fact that the local OPP are good with it the officer was not lenient and issued to tickets. 1 for unlawfully driving ORV on highway contrary to HTA Ont Reg 316/03 and number 2 ORV speeding more than 20km/hr when speed limit is 50km/h or less, contrary to HTA Reg 316/03. My husband says he wasn't speeding because as soon as he turned onto the road you could see the checkpoint where the officer was standing in the middle of the road stopping traffic. He certainly didn't speed up to the officer. So being that this is an off road vehicle we are unsure how this affects things compared to tickets received for a regular vehicle.
1. Do we have any leg to stand on in fighting the tickets or getting them quashed?
2. How is this type offences processed and does this affect his licencing record and insurance?
Any insight you can provide on the above or in general would be helpful, we are have 5 days left to choose an option for the tickets. Thank you.
You need a license, plate (blue), and insurance specifically for highway use. You need a plate (green) and insurance for off road use anywhere that isn't your own private property. You can either pay for insurance that will cover you everywhere, or just insurance for use on the trails. I'm going to assume your husband hadn't been equipped with the proper plates or insurance for highway considering the whole incident caught him off-guard. No insurance on an off road vehicle is no different than your every day car, a $5000 fine plus surcharge. If the officer really wanted to nail you, he could have.
You need a license, plate (blue), and insurance specifically for highway use. You need a plate (green) and insurance for off road use anywhere that isn't your own private property. You can either pay for insurance that will cover you everywhere, or just insurance for use on the trails.
I'm going to assume your husband hadn't been equipped with the proper plates or insurance for highway considering the whole incident caught him off-guard. No insurance on an off road vehicle is no different than your every day car, a $5000 fine plus surcharge. If the officer really wanted to nail you, he could have.
My apologies if you misunderstood but we are well aware of the requirements to licence and insure our off road vehicles. Yes we do have a plate (green) and yes we do have insurance through our auto insurance company. As I explained a 2 UP machine defined under the HTA Regulation 316-3 it is considered an ORV and not an ATV even though the only difference between them is the ability to carry a passenger. Under the current regulation ORV's such as 2 ups and side by sides are illegal on the road. Thank you for your response Bend but it has nothing to do with what I asked about.
My apologies if you misunderstood but we are well aware of the requirements to licence and insure our off road vehicles. Yes we do have a plate (green) and yes we do have insurance through our auto insurance company. As I explained a 2 UP machine defined under the HTA Regulation 316-3 it is considered an ORV and not an ATV even though the only difference between them is the ability to carry a passenger. Under the current regulation ORV's such as 2 ups and side by sides are illegal on the road. Thank you for your response Bend but it has nothing to do with what I asked about.
My apologies if you misunderstood but we are well aware of the requirements to licence and insure our off road vehicles. Yes we do have a plate (green) and yes we do have insurance through our auto insurance company. As I explained a 2 UP machine defined under the HTA Regulation 316-3 it is considered an ORV and not an ATV even though the only difference between them is the ability to carry a passenger. Under the current regulation ORV's such as 2 ups and side by sides are illegal on the road. Thank you for your response Bend but it has nothing to do with what I asked about.
I would still probably file for a court date and request disclosure so you can see the officers notes. Once you have that it will be easier to see if there is something to use to build a case. Also even if they have you dead to rights, you can still probably plea bargain to get a reduced penalty. While I can't guarantee what the prosecutor will do, when there are two tickets they are often willing to drop one ticket if you plead guilty to the other one.
I would still probably file for a court date and request disclosure so you can see the officers notes. Once you have that it will be easier to see if there is something to use to build a case. Also even if they have you dead to rights, you can still probably plea bargain to get a reduced penalty. While I can't guarantee what the prosecutor will do, when there are two tickets they are often willing to drop one ticket if you plead guilty to the other one.
You asked if you had any leg to stand on. You also mentioned the officer wasn't lenient with his charge. Green plates and off road insurance are not suffiecent for traveling on Ontario Highways. They are useless in your situation. You can't get a two-up or a side by side blue plated because they are not legal for Ontario Highways to begin with, which means your insurance provider isn't going to cover squat when you're in an accident on the streets. So what is your defense for being on the roads? Your husband is patrolling the streets as a self appointed security guard? That's not a defense. Your husband can watch the neighborhood on his feet or contact the police if there's a bigger issue. You have no plate, insurance, and your vehicle is not considered legal for the roads to begin with. A green plate is restricted to off road use. Sounds like the officer was pretty lenient. As someone pointed out, there's also a possibility for a reduction. As for having a leg to stand on defending your charge during a trial, i'd doubt that. As for the speeding charge, you're building a defense out of assumptions. If you want to request a trial, you can request disclosure and go from there. The officer would have written how/when/where he came up with the speeding charge.
KitKat wrote:
My apologies if you misunderstood but we are well aware of the requirements to licence and insure our off road vehicles. Yes we do have a plate (green) and yes we do have insurance through our auto insurance company. As I explained a 2 UP machine defined under the HTA Regulation 316-3 it is considered an ORV and not an ATV even though the only difference between them is the ability to carry a passenger. Under the current regulation ORV's such as 2 ups and side by sides are illegal on the road. Thank you for your response Bend but it has nothing to do with what I asked about.
You asked if you had any leg to stand on. You also mentioned the officer wasn't lenient with his charge.
Green plates and off road insurance are not suffiecent for traveling on Ontario Highways. They are useless in your situation. You can't get a two-up or a side by side blue plated because they are not legal for Ontario Highways to begin with, which means your insurance provider isn't going to cover squat when you're in an accident on the streets.
So what is your defense for being on the roads? Your husband is patrolling the streets as a self appointed security guard? That's not a defense. Your husband can watch the neighborhood on his feet or contact the police if there's a bigger issue. You have no plate, insurance, and your vehicle is not considered legal for the roads to begin with. A green plate is restricted to off road use. Sounds like the officer was pretty lenient.
As someone pointed out, there's also a possibility for a reduction. As for having a leg to stand on defending your charge during a trial, i'd doubt that.
As for the speeding charge, you're building a defense out of assumptions. If you want to request a trial, you can request disclosure and go from there. The officer would have written how/when/where he came up with the speeding charge.
Yes, thank you, I have taken the relevant points made earlier about fine reduction and requesting disclosure under advisement. Your assumptions are incorrect, he is not patrolling the streets as a self-appointed "security guard" and as for your opening comments they are not entirely correct either. We have dealt with the situation and I consider the matter now closed, I do not wish to continue debating your assumptions. Thanks for your time.
Green plates and off road insurance are not suffiecent for traveling on Ontario Highways. They are useless in your situation. You can't get a two-up or a side by side blue plated because they are not legal for Ontario Highways to begin with, which means your insurance provider isn't going to cover squat when you're in an accident on the streets.
So what is your defense for being on the roads? Your husband is patrolling the streets as a self appointed security guard? That's not a defense. Your husband can watch the neighborhood on his feet or contact the police if there's a bigger issue. You have no plate, insurance, and your vehicle is not considered legal for the roads to begin with. A green plate is restricted to off road use. Sounds like the officer was pretty lenient.
As someone pointed out, there's also a possibility for a reduction. As for having a leg to stand on defending your charge during a trial, i'd doubt that.
As for the speeding charge, you're building a defense out of assumptions. If you want to request a trial, you can request disclosure and go from there. The officer would have written how/when/where he came up with the speeding charge.
Yes, thank you, I have taken the relevant points made earlier about fine reduction and requesting disclosure under advisement. Your assumptions are incorrect, he is not patrolling the streets as a self-appointed "security guard" and as for your opening comments they are not entirely correct either. We have dealt with the situation and I consider the matter now closed, I do not wish to continue debating your assumptions. Thanks for your time.
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This is the officers view of the stop sign i "disobeyed"
Another possible viewpoint, just so i can say that he cant see regardless
As you can see he cannot see the line where i must stop
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