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Ontario Highway Traffic Act

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how to best handle multiple minor tickets
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2009 10:15 pm 
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Hello, i like many others a bad habit of attracting unwanted attention, and tickets. i drove a dark Eagle Talon that my girlfriend used to call a Bat-mobile. im also under 25 years old. well i drive for a living, and i want to do whatever i can to keep my abstract clean. so i sold the car, and im posting here. if anyone cares to take 5min and post your thoughts i would be delighted.

i do my best to drive safe and be responsible but every now and then i get pulled over and it feels deep down inside like i'm being unfairly punished. but the law tells me this is not true. your either with it or against it.

for example;

case 1) one night i drive home down a small community side road in malvern, Toronto. it is a bad area but i have to cut across it. I am pulled over and the police officer says it looks like im driving fast. i was going exactly the speed limit honest. no real probable cause to pull me over, but he has the right, and the gun\badge.

i did have a drink or two which is a major no no. when administed a breath test i was below 0.08 because i noticed only a letter appeared on the screening device, they told me it was a caution. however they still impounded my car and license for 12 hours.

the 3 tickets:

one for having a license plate in the center of my front bumper instead hanging from a section on the outermost part as the law describes.

another ticket for not surrendering my drivers license. i later found it in my back pocket while sitting in the tow truck.

and another ticket for having my validation sticker in my wallet instead of on the plate like i should have.

SOLUTION?: so far i have set a court date, i can provide pictures of my plates moved to the right spot, i don't want to drill my bumper but i have to. also i put my registry sticker on the back plate and taken a picture for court purposes. My problem is i don't want the fail to surrender license charge as it appears on my abstract. what should i do?meet the prosecutor, pass on the two charges i know i can have dropped in order to ensure i dont get the fail to surrender on my abstract?

note: i did provide photo id, and proof i have an AZ class drivers license.

case 2)

i'm leaving a small plaza in scarborough, (52 division again) and this time im driving a 2008 Dodge Charger R\T im waiting to turn left from a small plaza. a cop car passes by. i put on my seat belt, wait for an opening and drive onto the road. i turn left onto the smaller road and make an immediate right onto a major street. i drive down to the first lights and turn right. i reach a stop sign and my girlfriend spills the food we just ordered. i put my car in park at the stop sign and put on my four way flashers. we get into an argument because she was too busy text messaging instead of making sure we didnt spill the food. a minute or two passes while im stopped at the stop sign and i give the car a little too much gas. the tires squeal, and i drive off. i did not speed, but i acelerated.

the tickets:

$50 HTA 170(12) interfere with traffic. im pretty sure there are no demerit points but does this appear on my abstract?

$85 HTA 75(4) unneccessary noise. does this appear on my abstract?


Solution?: im thinking about setting a court date, then meeting a prosecutor to plead guilty to one ticket and have the second drop.



If anyone can help with what i should do in either situation i would be extremely grateful.

if any law enforcement come accross this, i also ask you directly why they take down a physical description of me for traffic offences?this was done in the first case, i was asked if i have tattoos or peircings ect. in the second case the officers brought up the topic again subtle by saying hey did you change your hair sytle? i feel that im being profiled like a criminal. but i have no criminal record and dont break the law. whats going on here?


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 12:10 am 
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Location: Guelph, Ontario
In case 1, you should be able to have all 3 tickets dismissed
1. Car's front bumper is obviously not designed for placing the license plate on the outermost part. To be honest, there are 3 cars in my family and ALL of them have the plates dead in the centre. Never has been a problem with anyone... What is the subsection on that ticket? I can bet it's not OHTA, but one of the regulations...
2. AZ license implies that you have a G license. You have given the cop the proof of that, so that should not have even been a ticket. You have misplaced a license (from a wallet onto a back pocket, likely when you showed your ID to the bouncer at a bar), and made every reasonable precaution to give proper identification to the cop.
3. Harder one. You can argue that you had just received the new validation sticker that day and was in a hurry home to wipe off your plate clean to make sure that the sticker sticks.

Most cops would give you a "fix-it" ticket whereby you would have to proove you license and affix the sticker. They usually give a 3-day leeway. Have you chosen to fight all 3? You have excellent chances of beating all of them.


case 2.
1. Exactly how did you interfere with the traffic? Raise that question and have a story. I hope there was not a single car on the road...
2. Noise - wouldn't be sure on how to fight that one. You might arge that your car is a new powerful vehicle, and you have made an honest mistake of giving it just a bit too much gas by an accident.

I am not sure about the abstract, but all of the case 1 tickets are non-moving violations, which shouldn't affect your abstract.

170(12) is not a moving violation, neither is 75(4). Let's see what bear says on this topic though.

As a side note, our demerit points system table (labelled "Demerit Points") on the bottom of this (and any) page gives an accurate, up-to date correlation of points with a subsection.

_________________
"The more laws, the less justice" - Marcus Tullius Cicero
"The hardest thing to explain is the obvious"

www.OHTA.ca & www.OntarioHighwayTrafficAct.com


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 12:37 am 
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thanks racer, i was unsure about the fail to surrender my card in case 1.

going back to case 2, i know i have a fighting chance with the interference i made hand signals to cars that pulled up to the 4way to go ahead & i had my flashers on. so i made reasonable effort.

i told the officers the truth about what happened, she was texting and spilled food in the car and we started arguing so stopping was a smart thing to do.

he took my girlfriend out of the car and asked her a zillion questions about me and the nature of our relationship. i've worked security and i know the pocket books you carry to record details. this officer took notes on small square sheets of folded white paper, it looked like a form, i really want to know about that peice of paper, i think i saw it in case 1, and i think its a profiling thing. i expressly said i did not consent to being entered in any database or system that labels me.


but its really my fault for peeling out. it was dirty, the button that cuts the ignition when tires loose grip was turned off.

from another standpoint i remember looking at a post i think bear made... sticking out = empty wallet


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 12:52 am 
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Location: Guelph, Ontario
When did the offence take place? You have 15 days after that to file for challenges. Wait a day or two if you can, then file to dispute the tickets. Make sure to request disclosure.

Also, while your head is still fresh, make you own notes about what had happened.

_________________
"The more laws, the less justice" - Marcus Tullius Cicero
"The hardest thing to explain is the obvious"

www.OHTA.ca & www.OntarioHighwayTrafficAct.com


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 1:55 am 
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Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2008 8:26 pm
Posts: 2881
Location: Toronto
As for the "interfere with traffic" charge, how far back from the STOP sign did you stop and turn on your hazard lights?

cawilso1 wrote:
one night i drive home down a small community side road in malvern, Toronto.


Anyone driving at night in Malvern is going to attract unwanted attention. :evil: Heck, that's the bad part of Scarborough. :shock: I should know that... I also live in Scarborough.

However, you should know that the Prosecutors at the courthouse on Markham Road (which is probably where your cases will be heard) tend to be reasonable so if you do go the route of attempting to plea-bargain, they're usually willing to compromise. That's about all I have to add... BTW the parking lot at that courthouse charges $6, the Montessori school directly across the street from the courthouse parking lot is $5 for the whole day.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 9:50 am 
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Location: In YOUR rearview mirror!
welcome "cawilso1" None of the offences are moving so demerit points will not be assigned. However, any conviction of any will go on your record.

Case #1. A letter appeared on the Approved Screening Device, which was an "A" = Warn. That is a 12hr suspension and nothing goes on the driving record for that. Here is the wordings/sections of acts for this incident...

- licence plate: The number plates for a motor vehicle shall be attached to and exposed in a conspicuous position on the front and rear of the motor vehicle

- driver's licence: Every driver of a motor vehicle shall surrender the licence for reasonable inspection upon the demand of a police officer

- validation:
9. (1) Evidence of validation issued for use on a number plate shall be affixed,
(a) where the permit is for a commercial motor vehicle, in the upper right corner of the number plate exposed on the front of the motor vehicle; and
(b) in all other cases, in the upper right corner of the number plate exposed on the rear of the motor vehicle

The description obtained is very easy to aid for the investigation. You failed to ID with a photo, namely your drivers licence, thus the officer takes down information to ascertain and satisfy requirements that you are who you are. 2nd time could easily be your drivers licence photo. I routinely question drivers if the facial hair has changed, length of hair has changed, addition or removal of glasses. Once in awhile the person has aged (18-24yr) so drastically that it barely looks like the driver. I have also seen someone try to use their older brothers' licence.

Case #2. Unfortunately I do not have city streets in my area or even a stop sign to deal with this type of thing. I have issued the noise one before, but that pertained to a muffler (straight thru). To try and think of this.....was it a "chirp" or was it a "squawkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk" of the tires. I'm not much help either way on this, don't know the that area, and do not patrol the city.

_________________
Above is merely a suggestion/thought and in no way constitutes legal advice or views of my employer. www.OHTA.ca


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 7:47 pm 
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thank you


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