ATV 20km/h speed limit ticket, implications?

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rxtx
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ATV 20km/h speed limit ticket, implications?

Unread post by rxtx on

recently received a speeding ticket (first ticket in ~7 years) on an ATV for exceeding 20k/mh on a 50km/h roadway. (316.03/sec22) ~150$ fine no points.

I recall this provision from 25 years ago as it applies to snowmobiles under the msva, but as I am new to off-roading this was a bit of a suprise.
when I received the ticket the LEO alleged I was travelling in excess of 80km/h....the implication being that the section 316 ticket is a BIG BREAK from the demerit points and fine of a 30km/h-over ticket.

my question is in regards to the application of stunt driving (172?) ..... would 50km/h (stunt driving speed threshold) be considered from 50 (aka 100km/h) or from 20 (aka 70km/h), in which case 20km/h over the limit while a minor infraction in a car, would be a major infraction on a smaller vehicle???

If I am interpreting this right, this dated subsection has staggering implications when combined with some new law sections.

It also seems silly that in a 50 zone it is only "safe" to so 20km/h yet in a 60 zone suddenly "50km/h is safe".... if the goal to maintain a certain speed differential between traffic they certainly do not achieve this, and I dont see much difference in pavement quality between 50km/h roads and 80km/h roads. if nobody tells my atv it is in a 50 zone maybe it will still handle properly? :P


viper1
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Unread post by viper1 on

I believe stunt driving is 50k over posted speed.

Back when I took drivers ed it was double the speed limit to lose your ticket.
(but at that time no rules for off road vehicles)

challenge it and see what offer is.
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use at your own risk"


jsherk
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Unread post by jsherk on

Can you be specific about the charge you got? Exactly how does it read on the ticket and exactly what section does it reference? Can you scan and post the ticket (blank out personal details and officer name/badge).
+++ This is not legal advice, only my opinion +++


screeech
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Unread post by screeech on

The ticket comes from Regulation 316-06 of the Highway Traffic Act. Section 22 reads:

Maximum speed

22. The off-road vehicle shall not be driven at a rate of speed greater than,

(a) 20 kilometres per hour, if the speed limit established under the Act for that part of the highway is not greater than 50 kilometres per hour; or

(b) 50 kilometres per hour, if the speed limit established under the Act for that part of the highway is greater than 50 kilometres per hour. O. Reg. 316/03, s. 22.
Do not worry about a stunt charge...if he was going to lay it, it would have been laid at the time...


rxtx
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Unread post by rxtx on

Screech is correct, and the ticket reads exactly as he stated "speeding- more than 20km/h where the posted speed is 50km/h or less"

I would love to fight it, but I am already pretty lucky, last thing I need is to go to court and have him tell the judge I was driving in excess of 80km/h.

I'm not worried about stunt driving charge as that ship has sailed this time around , just wondering the interpretation of what could have been. If the speed limit is 20, it could be alleged I was going 60kmh over, if it was 50, it could be alleged I was going. 30 km/h over. Which one counts in this case?


jsherk
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Unread post by jsherk on

The charge is going more than 20km/h in a posted 50km/h zone, whether you were going 21km/h or 99km/h it is the same. Stunt only applies to going 50 more than than the POSTED limit. So you would need to be going 100+ for stunt to apply.
+++ This is not legal advice, only my opinion +++


rxtx
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Unread post by rxtx on

Exactly what I wanted to know. Thanks!


jsherk
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Unread post by jsherk on

Here is a thought...

Since Regulations are NOT law, then if the ticket (Notice of Offence or Summons) specifies a REGULATION on it instead of a SECTION from the HTA, then is the ticket actually valid?

I will do some more research on this!
+++ This is not legal advice, only my opinion +++


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bobajob
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Unread post by bobajob on

I though stunt was also included
* engaging in road racing
* wheel spins / doughnuts
and the like
viper1 wrote:I believe stunt driving is 50k over posted speed.

Back when I took drivers ed it was double the speed limit to lose your ticket.
(but at that time no rules for off road vehicles)

challenge it and see what offer is.
--------------------------------------------------------------
* NO you cant touch your phone
* Speeding is speeding
* Challenge every ticket
* Impaired driving, you should be locked up UNDER the jail


argyll
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Unread post by argyll on

Yes plus someone in the trunk, beating oncoming traffic at a new green light etc. Over 50 is just one of the criteria.
Former Ontario Police Officer. Advice will become less relevant as the time goes by !


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bobajob
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Unread post by bobajob on

serious ? so instead of the passenger being in the car they stuff them in the trunk ?
argyll wrote:Yes plus someone in the trunk,
I Loved the film Goodfellas
open the trunk dead guy is not dead and de vito goes ape on him with a carving knife
BTW :)
--------------------------------------------------------------
* NO you cant touch your phone
* Speeding is speeding
* Challenge every ticket
* Impaired driving, you should be locked up UNDER the jail


Zatota
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Unread post by Zatota on

jsherk wrote:Since Regulations are NOT law, then if the ticket (Notice of Offence or Summons) specifies a REGULATION on it instead of a SECTION from the HTA, then is the ticket actually valid?
Regulations are law. Provisions in regulations are just as enforceable as provisions in the Act itself.

One of the reasons regulations exist is that they are considerably easier to amend than acts. Look at the demerit point system, for example. If that system were contained in the body of the HTA and the government wanted to change it, it would have to introduce a bill, get it through three readings and get Royal Assent. Because it's in a regulation, the government can pretty much change it at will. The federal and provincial governments use regulations in this way with many acts.






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