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Proposed Graduated License Changes
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 11:35 am 
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New laws comming into effect. This will affect anyone under 21!

Written By
Tracy Mason
MASON LEGAL SERVICES
Licensed Paralegal

Quote:
The Ontario Government recently announced proposed changes to the Graduated Licensing System whereby there would be new restrictions for drivers under the age 21, which would include alcohol restrictions, limits as to teenage passengers, longer graduation periods, and tougher penalties for offences.

One can easily see why youth feel picked on by these proposed changes. First of all, the alcohol restrictions would be to Graduated License AND FULLY LICENSED drivers under the age of 21. Can we take this to mean that they are increasing the age of majority to 21? Graduated License holders already have alcohol restrictions in place.



Full Article At http://imintrouble.ca/blog/index.php/2008/12/05/proposed-graduated-license-changes


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Re: Proposed Graduated License Changes
PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 2:41 pm 
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The longer graduation periods are proposed to increase the timeframe to 36 months. The argument is that they have a longer period of time to develop skills and experience.


I just don't get the logic of this statement. Surely the MORE miles a driver clocks, the more experience he would gain, right? When I was 16, I took every dollar I earned from both part-time jobs and put into the tank of my car that I took such pride in owning. I cruised non-stop, hour after hour after hour! The "science" of driving was burned in to my young, fertile brain in a way that could never be done when I was older. As such, 30 years later and still no accidents. I can't wait to see the stats in ANOTHER 30 years to see if this new "make-'em-drive-LESS" legislation really improved accident rates or not. I just can't be convinced that taking a kids right to drive away from him for one lousy speeding ticket is going to improve their skills behind the wheel. Complete rubbish! I got my first speeding ticket when I was 17. I'm not 100% sure I would have obeyed a 30-day license suspension had it been in effect at the time.

Quote:
The tougher penalties are just a grab. Suspending a novice driver 30 days on a first speeding offence is cruel. Everyone should be entitled to at least one learning experience.


ABSOLUTELY!!! That's what kids do! They make mistakes and learn from them. After a ticket or two, they realize that the cops really DO have the upper hand in this "game".


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Re: Proposed Graduated License Changes
PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 8:20 am 
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Bookm wrote:
Quote:
The longer graduation periods are proposed to increase the timeframe to 36 months. The argument is that they have a longer period of time to develop skills and experience.


I just don't get the logic of this statement. Surely the MORE miles a driver clocks, the more experience he would gain, right?


HUH?? ok, I'll type slowly.

Longer time period = more KILOMETRES = more experience!

Little history here....
The Liberal federal government of Pierre Trudeau first began implementing metrication in Canada in 1970 with a government agency dedicated to implementing the project, the Metric Commission, being established in 1971. By the mid-1970s, metric product labelling was introduced. In 1972, the provinces made all road signs metric by 1977.

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Above is merely a suggestion/thought and in no way constitutes legal advice or views of my employer. www.OHTA.ca


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 10:19 am 
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Graduated licencing imposes restrictions that result in LESS driving in a given period of time. Most 16/17/18 yr.olds now have to wait till mom and dad come home from work before they can take the car for drive around the block. And thats IF mom and dad aren't too busy to take them. I probably had 50-times more miles under my seat than a typical 17 yr.old today. By the time I was ready to move out and fend for myself, at 18, driving skill wasn't an issue. My work required me to share car-pool duties with several other teens. This would all be impossible today.

Bottom line is, longer time does not necessarily mean more miles. Figure out a way to log a drivers ACTUAL mileage and we'd be on to something here.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 12:15 pm 
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If the longer graduated licensing was accompanied by mandatory real driver training which teaches new drivers things like proper road safety, REAL safe driving habits, skid control, evasive manoeuvres, lane discipline, basic vehicle maintenance, how to properly change lanes, etc., then I'd support it.

This is nothing of the sort. It is just McGuinty & Bentley trying to make life more difficult for young people. Our current system is restrictive enough. What's needed aren't more restrictions or longer ones, but better (and mandatory) driver training, if they're going to make any changes.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 1:44 pm 
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I actually HAVE a possible solution, but it's a tad "way-out" there for most folks to really understand. As a world-champion online NASCAR champion (2006), I can honestly say they have really got PC based driving simulators figured out!!

The excellent physics of the vehicle, the lifelike graphics, and the motorized "feel" of a descent steering wheel/pedals combination would make a great platform for kids to practice for hours and hours.

All they need is a decent Traffic Sim program (as issued by the MTO) and kids could practice long before they're of age to drive on the streets. Then when they turn 16, part of their test will be on the MTO simulator (using the same software)right at the MTO office.

I've looked for real-world driving software but haven't found anything yet. The closest I've come to is DRIVER where you get chased by a multitude of relentless cops!! I just can't begin to explain how much fun that is!!!!!

As proof sims work, Denny Hamlin won at Pocono in only his first race at the track. He credited his win to the hours of "sim" laps he turned using $80 software!!

Ooops: http://img164.imageshack.us/img164/57/bookmmich18wc.jpg


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 5:25 pm 
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Your suggestion, Bookm, isn't actually that "way-out." It would give the kids chances to practice with a variety of situations so they'd be better prepped when on the road. Expensive? Yeah, but I'd submit that the cost of collisions to the economy is much larger, not to mention the human toll.

Moreover, I've come from the exact environment that you suggest, in a way. I know that simulators work. I had to go through dozens of hours in the simulator, through a whole whack of scenarios and emergencies, making mistakes and learning from them, before they ever let me touch a jet with passengers. That's on top of the experience I already had before I became an airline pilot. Why shouldn't we give new drivers the opportunity to have a few "driving simulator" sessions before they touch the car? After all, we share the roads with them every single day.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 11:46 pm 
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I think the biggest problem is the youngsters see what we do way before they can ever drive a car.

They see "when they are going to school" cars just slowing for stop signs etc.

The parent gets caught speeding, and the story about the bad cop.(loss of respect)

School buses hell bent to get where-ever they go.

Lots of bad habits learned before driving.

In my case I tried with mom and dad then did two lessons with a pro.

The pro driver pointed out a few things to me that I still use.


I still wonder if the rules have changed about some things.


Why does a taxi get bus status in hov lane?

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 1:21 pm 
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A big thumbs up to the simulator approach suggested by Bookm and Radar Identified. Beats me why, since simulators work well for learning to handle complex tasks from flying airplanes to navigating at sea to operating industrial cranes to driving transport trucks (in Europe), they are not a required component of learning to drive a car in Ontario. Tying the graduated license to the passage of calendar time is just dumb.

Truly, in the heads of Ontario lawmakers there is a strange environment.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 2:39 pm 
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SIM driving sounds good.....goal of the SIM is NOT to collect POINTS :lol:

There should be an economical way to practice also. Maybe a $200 home version for a PC (includes wheel, pedals, software). Then go to the MTO SIM to pass. Could incorporate everything from regular empty side streets, to hwys, stop n go traffic, snow storms, fog, deer, cellphones and even that "Geico" squirrel!

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 2:44 pm 
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BUT HIT THE DARN THING!!! LOL

I fully believe the statement, "Sometimes it's over for Rover!"



P.S.... my rig!
Image
Image


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 3:53 pm 
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Funny, but I learned the physics of rear wheel drive from Gran Turismo, whoooohoooo Playstation. Anywho, everything I learned in that game as far as car control goes, winning races is a byproduct, works in real life.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 9:19 pm 
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hwybear wrote:
SIM driving sounds good.....goal of the SIM is NOT to collect POINTS :lol:

There should be an economical way to practice also. Maybe a $200 home version for a PC (includes wheel, pedals, software). Then go to the MTO SIM to pass. Could incorporate everything from regular empty side streets, to hwys, stop n go traffic, snow storms, fog, deer, cellphones and even that "Geico" squirrel!


Bah, just get a set of steering wheel, pedals, & shifter, all for about $100, and drive around in GTA Vice City to stimulate actual street driving.

Bookm - nice rig.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 11:15 pm 
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Book, try a flat screen.........you know something a little more 90's at least :D :D :D

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