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Ontario Highway Traffic Act

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Expired drivers License
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 10:21 pm 
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My wife was just pulled over for running a yellow light and instead was ticketed for an expired drivers licence. The license expired on her birthdate 4 months ago and she didn;t recieve a renewal. $325 !!!!!!

Hope someone can help. She was ticketed under HTA 32 (1) with the offense shown as
"Drive Motor Vehicle no license"

Can anyone tell me if this is worth the effort to get a reduction in the amount of fine? Is it proper that she was charged with NO license instead of an "expired" license?
Thanks for your help on this.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 10:26 am 
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Location: In YOUR rearview mirror!
Once your licence expires you no longer have a licence to drive, therefore you are driving without a licence.

A little blessing in it all.....I have yet to hear of an insurance company covering any costs of a collision for a driver with an expired licence as they don't have a licence to drive. I have seen coverage if you are hit by an unlicenced driver.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 7:59 pm 
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Thanks highway bear :roll: .....you're obviously a cop ... I already know what a cop would say and how they think..... very black and white ....that's why my wife has a ticket.... and shows that you've followed your step by step manual to a "T".... you've sure memorized your manual very well.

Now let's get back to the real world ....What I was hoping for was an unbiased opinion .... I already have the cop's point of view on the ticket .... I don't need another photocopy. ...

Anyone ( non-cop) opinion pls
thanks


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 9:08 pm 
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Actually Bear gave his best advice and we should all be grateful to be able to view the perspective of the law enforcement community. Your last post came off a bit rude.
Your wife should have kept her licence up to date even though she did not receive the renewal notice. Yes, it's inconvenient, but driving without a licence for four months is overdoing it.
With that being said, you need to check with your insurance company whether they consider this particular ticket a "major" or a "minor". If it's considered a "major" I'd take any plea deal that the Crown would have to offer. If it's considered a "minor", you have 3 options..
1) Pay up and take the conviction
2) Take it to court and beg for a lower fine and easier payment terms (blame it on the economy :twisted:)
3) Take it to court and go for broke.. Here's an excellent "cookbook" http://www.ticketcombat.com/
If neither of you is comfortable with going to court, you can always hire a reputable paralegal firm. Based on my previous experiences, I recommend Redline. They are a bit pricier than most, but they won't take a plea if it's not in your interest (which most paralegal firms would do).

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 9:41 pm 
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Location: In YOUR rearview mirror!
you asked if it was proper offence and I answered yes....nothing biased at all there!

It is one of the few B&W offences in the HTA.

and couple other things that might come to mind...
1) If police would let the person continue without a licence and then for some reason there is a collision....I certainly don't want to be on the end of a civil suit for knowingly letting an unlicensed driver continue to drive.
2) Everyone on the road needs valid licence plates and licence and all people pay for same, how would it be fair to those in compliance if police just let those that don't comply (knowingly or not) go down the road.

Besides as many on this forum can attest, I do not chatise people on here. I try to bring a perspective from the other side which 99% of people do not know at all.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 10:06 pm 
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hwybear wrote:
Besides as many on this forum can attest, I do not chatise people on here. I try to bring a perspective from the other side which 99% of people do not know at all.


Absolutely. And as I said before, your input is very much appreciated, and you've been on this forum much longer than I have.

Now for the charge... this one is very difficult to beat. Even a paralegal couldn't do much. I believe this is an absolute liability offence, meaning that the only thing that matters is whether or not you committed the act. Unless the ticket has a fatal error or the cop does not show up for trial, it's going to be almost impossible to beat. Given that, unless the ticket has a glaring error, you should try to talk to the Prosecutor before the trial and see if you can get a plea bargain out of it. You might be able to plead it down to something less, or possibly, as Firestart said, ask for a reduced fine in court if that fails. Hoping the officer doesn't show is not a worthwhile strategy anymore, as the Prosecutors are now scheduling trials based on the availability of the officers. Usually Prosecutors are receptive to plea bargains. Good luck with it.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 10:20 pm 
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Radar Identified wrote:
hwybear wrote:
Besides as many on this forum can attest, I do not chatise people on here. I try to bring a perspective from the other side which 99% of people do not know at all.


Absolutely. And as I said before, your input is very much appreciated, and you've been on this forum much longer than I have..


Like to thank you RI and FiReSTaRT. I have just over 700 posts....I`m sure if I was an @$$ or overly biased I would have gotten the boot a long time ago, with a don't let the door hit you on the way out thing. I have seen other forums (BookM, Reflections know some) that go on personal attacks all the time, not only on police, but civilians as well. This site is very educational and fun and needs to stay this way.....now where did my mocha go :cry:

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 11:54 pm 
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hwybear wrote:
Like to thank you RI and FiReSTaRT. I have just over 700 posts....I`m sure if I was an @$$ or overly biased I would have gotten the boot a long time ago, with a don't let the door hit you on the way out thing. I have seen other forums (BookM, Reflections know some) that go on personal attacks all the time, not only on police, but civilians as well. This site is very educational and fun and needs to stay this way.....now where did my mocha go :cry:


And I totally agree! Hwybear is an asset to this site, and will always be respected.

And this site will always remain the way described by hwybear!

I think we should actually thank hwybear for being part of our community! As his posts and opinion are always valuable.

Also, to the original poster, you should use this advice, as you are getting unbiased advice for FREE!

And don't get mad when ppl tell you these things, becuz driving for 4 months without a license is not the norm, and is not an accepted practice not only by the law, but by the citizens who share the same road with you too!

In the end, we are just here to help you out.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 9:13 am 
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Where did I put that angry bear pic.......

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 3:04 pm 
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hwybear wrote:
This site is very educational and fun and needs to stay this way.....


Agreed! And I know of the site that you speak of... but if it's any consolation, the forum that pertains to my line of work is a lot worse. :shock: Or was until very recently.

Anyway, this site is entertaining and informative, above all civilized, and it should stay that way. I know I've learned a lot from visiting here regularly.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 3:34 pm 
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Definitely. I also like that the site isn't too busy; I lurked for a while on the Blueline forums, but just couldn't keep up with the mountain of posts every day. They also have LEO-only forums, so it's harder to really get to know them.

If I had known more cops like Bear and with his attitude, I probably would have joined the service right out of high school.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 12:14 pm 
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Back to the original point. Did you make one of your three options. Take it to court. Who knows maybe the officer will be unavailable, then it gets tossed. Its worth a try, because in the end you pay the same fine.

When you go to court, if he shows up. Play stupid, and tell the JP, you thought it had to go to court to Plea, Guilty with an explanation. Then ask for forgiveness, lower my fine please.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 8:42 pm 
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Even though sometimes we all dont agree with hwybear....

I enjoy him on the site. I am always interested to hear the perspective of the officer. His posts are very informative.

I have came to have alot more respect for Highway police and the OPP in general (except Fantino) from reading alot of hwybear's posts.

Maybee if the rest of the public knew what we do people would respect highway police alot more.

This site is educational, officers and drivers learn from the topics and the posts. I wouldn't call anyone an ass but it is perfectly fine to disagree without losing your cool or taking it to far.

Half the reason i love this forum is because of him. I wouldn't frequent this site as much if it weren't for him. I do like to hear a HSD perspective and he provides us with ton's of info on laws, policies, equipment/ strategies police use, etc!

Some of us may not like 172, lidar, or boston cream doughnuts, but that is no reason to hate police or think they are all the same. (well i don't like doughnuts so i hope hwybear doesnt hate me :oops: )


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 10:01 pm 
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tdrive2 wrote:
well i don't like doughnuts


Ban! BAN HIM! :!: :!:

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 10:45 pm 
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I wonder how many times hwybear has slapped 172 on those tim hortons trucks that pass along the 401.

Boy oh boy i bet the whole detachment couldn't wait to impound one of those :twisted:.

I bet they would detain and impound the whole truck and everything inside the trailer to!

Officer of the month! :lol:

After all it is a stunt to drive a truck full of doughnuts under a lonely over pass at night with a tired and bored officer.

Or all those late night " routine inspections he must do on those poor trucks" i bet everyone of them requires them to unhitch the lock on the back of the trailer:P.

Hey sometimes those trucks dont have all their wheels on the ground to. Impound the trailer?


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