I received a 3-day suspension for blowing in the "warning" range a few months ago (I know, I was stupid, I learned from my mistake). Cop never filed the ticket. However, Service Ontario has a copy of my ticket receipt, which they used to issue me a temp license. What happens now? Can they actually enter it in the system themselves without the original coming from the cops? How can the ticket/charge/record be valid if the cop never entered it in the system and the original doesn't exist (only a receipt)? It's almost like buying an item, going back to the store to return it with your receipt, but the store has no record of the sale... Just wondering.
I received a 3-day suspension for blowing in the "warning" range a few months ago (I know, I was stupid, I learned from my mistake).
Cop never filed the ticket. However, Service Ontario has a copy of my ticket receipt, which they used to issue me a temp license.
What happens now? Can they actually enter it in the system themselves without the original coming from the cops? How can the ticket/charge/record be valid if the cop never entered it in the system and the original doesn't exist (only a receipt)?
It's almost like buying an item, going back to the store to return it with your receipt, but the store has no record of the sale...
What do you mean by "ticket receipt"? I assume this is something they get from the police stating there is a 3-day suspension? MTO will not (can not) take any further action against you until you are actually found guilty and convicted of a charge. When an officer lays a charge, they have 7 days to file it with the court. If they don't, then the ticket is not valid because there is no ticket in the system. However they also have up to 6 months to re-issue a new ticket and serve you with the new ticket. So possibly the officer messed up and did not file it with the court or officer realized there was some kind of mistake on the ticket and knew it would get dropped anyways or officer was in a really good mood and just decided to be nice to you. But in any case, the MTO can NOT charge you or pursue any charges against. The officer would have to re-lay the charge against you himself.
What do you mean by "ticket receipt"? I assume this is something they get from the police stating there is a 3-day suspension? MTO will not (can not) take any further action against you until you are actually found guilty and convicted of a charge.
When an officer lays a charge, they have 7 days to file it with the court. If they don't, then the ticket is not valid because there is no ticket in the system. However they also have up to 6 months to re-issue a new ticket and serve you with the new ticket.
So possibly the officer messed up and did not file it with the court or officer realized there was some kind of mistake on the ticket and knew it would get dropped anyways or officer was in a really good mood and just decided to be nice to you.
But in any case, the MTO can NOT charge you or pursue any charges against. The officer would have to re-lay the charge against you himself.
By receipt, I meant the a carbon-copy of the original ticket the cop handed me when he issued me the ticket and suspension. Technically, when a ticket like this gets processed, first the license is suspended for 3 days. Then, it's an automatic $180 fine, and the incident remains on the driving record for 5 years. However, MTO confirmed that nothing has been entered by the police in the system (my record is currently clean). They're saying they want to find the copy of the ticket (not the original) to process the incident and charges. This is where I don't know the legality of it all. If the cop never enters or processes the incident/charges/suspension/fine/etc, then how can it be valid, even if a copy of the receipt exists somewhere. They can't even find the original. And it has now been 4 months.
jsherk wrote:
What do you mean by "ticket receipt"? I assume this is something they get from the police stating there is a 3-day suspension? MTO will not (can not) take any further action against you until you are actually found guilty and convicted of a charge.
When an officer lays a charge, they have 7 days to file it with the court. If they don't, then the ticket is not valid because there is no ticket in the system. However they also have up to 6 months to re-issue a new ticket and serve you with the new ticket.
So possibly the officer messed up and did not file it with the court or officer realized there was some kind of mistake on the ticket and knew it would get dropped anyways or officer was in a really good mood and just decided to be nice to you.
But in any case, the MTO can NOT charge you or pursue any charges against. The officer would have to re-lay the charge against you himself.
By receipt, I meant the a carbon-copy of the original ticket the cop handed me when he issued me the ticket and suspension.
Technically, when a ticket like this gets processed, first the license is suspended for 3 days. Then, it's an automatic $180 fine, and the incident remains on the driving record for 5 years.
However, MTO confirmed that nothing has been entered by the police in the system (my record is currently clean). They're saying they want to find the copy of the ticket (not the original) to process the incident and charges.
This is where I don't know the legality of it all. If the cop never enters or processes the incident/charges/suspension/fine/etc, then how can it be valid, even if a copy of the receipt exists somewhere. They can't even find the original. And it has now been 4 months.
I'm as confused as jsherk. What is this $180 fine you talk about ? You are issued the 3 day suspension roadside, that goes to the MTO and that's it. No conviction, no fine..... If Service Ontario knows about it the the paperwork was forwarded.
I'm as confused as jsherk. What is this $180 fine you talk about ? You are issued the 3 day suspension roadside, that goes to the MTO and that's it. No conviction, no fine.....
If Service Ontario knows about it the the paperwork was forwarded.
Former Ontario Police Officer. Advice will become less relevant as the time goes by !
Sorry for all the confusion. A roadside breathalyzer in Ontario can yield 3 results: ok, warning, or over. I got the "warning" (a BAC between 0.05 and 0.08), which is an automatic 3-day suspension. The cop takes your license, tows your car if you're not accompanied by someone, and issues a ticket that includes a fine of $180 & 5-yr probation. So he took my license and gave me the receipt of the ticket he wrote, he kept the original. To get my plastic license card back, I needed to go to a Service Ontario counter after 3 days, give them the ticket receipt, pay the fine. However, no one at Service Ontario or MTO sees that the cop had entered the incident in the system. Basically, there's a copy of a ticket, but the original doesn't exist, nor is anything entered in the system by the police... and still after 4 months. So my question is, legally, can they still charge me the $180 & the 5yr probabtion without the police actually having the incident officially entered in the system? I currently only have a temporary paper license. And BTW, you cannot contest a roadside breathalyzer "warning" result in Ontario. You can't plead the case in court. It's a final charge by the police.
Sorry for all the confusion.
A roadside breathalyzer in Ontario can yield 3 results: ok, warning, or over. I got the "warning" (a BAC between 0.05 and 0.08), which is an automatic 3-day suspension. The cop takes your license, tows your car if you're not accompanied by someone, and issues a ticket that includes a fine of $180 & 5-yr probation.
So he took my license and gave me the receipt of the ticket he wrote, he kept the original. To get my plastic license card back, I needed to go to a Service Ontario counter after 3 days, give them the ticket receipt, pay the fine.
However, no one at Service Ontario or MTO sees that the cop had entered the incident in the system. Basically, there's a copy of a ticket, but the original doesn't exist, nor is anything entered in the system by the police... and still after 4 months.
So my question is, legally, can they still charge me the $180 & the 5yr probabtion without the police actually having the incident officially entered in the system?
I currently only have a temporary paper license.
And BTW, you cannot contest a roadside breathalyzer "warning" result in Ontario. You can't plead the case in court. It's a final charge by the police.
Did they make you pay the $180 (they should not have)? Or did you have to pay the License Re-Instatement fee (more likely this is what you paid)? Again, MTO can not give you a 5-year suspension unless you are found guilty of the charge. If the officer did not enter the ticket in the system then you can not be found guilty and MTO can not suspend your license for 5 years. The $180 would be the fine for the ticket so that would not be MTO responsibility either. If you are convicted and did not pay the fine, then MTO can withold return of your license until the fine is payed. So the short answer to your question is NO the MTO has nothing to do with the fine or the 5-year suspension UNLESS you are convicted of the charge.
Did they make you pay the $180 (they should not have)? Or did you have to pay the License Re-Instatement fee (more likely this is what you paid)?
Again, MTO can not give you a 5-year suspension unless you are found guilty of the charge. If the officer did not enter the ticket in the system then you can not be found guilty and MTO can not suspend your license for 5 years. The $180 would be the fine for the ticket so that would not be MTO responsibility either.
If you are convicted and did not pay the fine, then MTO can withold return of your license until the fine is payed.
So the short answer to your question is NO the MTO has nothing to do with the fine or the 5-year suspension UNLESS you are convicted of the charge.
I haven't paid anything yet because nothing is in the system. I have only been issued a temporary licence. MTO said they want at least the copy of the ticket to charge me the $180, put me on 5yr probation, and reissue my full license. But I can't understand how they can charge me through only a receipt/copy, when there's no official charge from the police in the computer systems, nor official paper work. And I don't even know where the copy is. I had given it to Service Ontario for them to issue me a temporary.
jsherk wrote:
Did they make you pay the $180 (they should not have)? Or did you have to pay the License Re-Instatement fee (more likely this is what you paid)?
Again, MTO can not give you a 5-year suspension unless you are found guilty of the charge. If the officer did not enter the ticket in the system then you can not be found guilty and MTO can not suspend your license for 5 years. The $180 would be the fine for the ticket so that would not be MTO responsibility either.
If you are convicted and did not pay the fine, then MTO can withold return of your license until the fine is payed.
So the short answer to your question is NO the MTO has nothing to do with the fine or the 5-year suspension UNLESS you are convicted of the charge.
I haven't paid anything yet because nothing is in the system. I have only been issued a temporary licence.
MTO said they want at least the copy of the ticket to charge me the $180, put me on 5yr probation, and reissue my full license. But I can't understand how they can charge me through only a receipt/copy, when there's no official charge from the police in the computer systems, nor official paper work.
And I don't even know where the copy is. I had given it to Service Ontario for them to issue me a temporary.
Basically, I would wait until the temp license almost expires, and then go into a DIFFERENT MTO office and ask for a new license to be issued. If the officer did not file the ticket then you officially have not been charge and the MTO can not charge you $180 or give you 5-year probation.
Basically, I would wait until the temp license almost expires, and then go into a DIFFERENT MTO office and ask for a new license to be issued.
If the officer did not file the ticket then you officially have not been charge and the MTO can not charge you $180 or give you 5-year probation.
First of all, what type of licence do you have? A G or a G2 and how old were you at the time? For a full G licenced driver who is over the age of 21, there is no "ticket" issued. Just the three day suspension for the warning.
First of all, what type of licence do you have? A G or a G2 and how old were you at the time?
For a full G licenced driver who is over the age of 21, there is no "ticket" issued. Just the three day suspension for the warning.
MTO apparently escalated the issue, and a supervision will contact me on Monday. They're looking into policy & legal on how to proceed. The phone agent said they never encountered a case like this before. Nothing is in the system. There's no paper trail. Only the ticket copy/receipt, which is "somewhere". I'm in my 30s. I have a normal G-class license. I never had a ticket in Ontario before. Only one 8 years ago in Quebec. Believe me, he issued a ticket. Wrote it up and gave me a copy. On it, it was stated why he was issuing the ticket (warning stage on the breathalyzer), an immediate 3-day suspension, and a future $180 fine for when MTO/ServiceOntario issues a new plastic license card. The cop and Service Ontario clearly stated I had nothing do once I go get a temporary. The charges will be in the system, and I would receive the official paper work by mail... That was 4 months ago... Still nothing, still no paper trail, nothing in the MTO systems.
jsherk wrote:
Basically, I would wait until the temp license almost expires, and then go into a DIFFERENT MTO office and ask for a new license to be issued.
If the officer did not file the ticket then you officially have not been charge and the MTO can not charge you $180 or give you 5-year probation.
MTO apparently escalated the issue, and a supervision will contact me on Monday. They're looking into policy & legal on how to proceed. The phone agent said they never encountered a case like this before. Nothing is in the system. There's no paper trail. Only the ticket copy/receipt, which is "somewhere".
Decatur wrote:
First of all, what type of licence do you have? A G or a G2 and how old were you at the time?
For a full G licenced driver who is over the age of 21, there is no "ticket" issued. Just the three day suspension for the warning.
I'm in my 30s. I have a normal G-class license. I never had a ticket in Ontario before. Only one 8 years ago in Quebec.
Believe me, he issued a ticket. Wrote it up and gave me a copy. On it, it was stated why he was issuing the ticket (warning stage on the breathalyzer), an immediate 3-day suspension, and a future $180 fine for when MTO/ServiceOntario issues a new plastic license card. The cop and Service Ontario clearly stated I had nothing do once I go get a temporary. The charges will be in the system, and I would receive the official paper work by mail... That was 4 months ago... Still nothing, still no paper trail, nothing in the MTO systems.
Well again if the officer did not file the ticket with the court within 7 days, then there is no ticket any more. I suppose if MTO chases down the officer, the officer could re-issue a new ticket. You basically want to hope they don't find officer!
Well again if the officer did not file the ticket with the court within 7 days, then there is no ticket any more.
I suppose if MTO chases down the officer, the officer could re-issue a new ticket. You basically want to hope they don't find officer!
That's not a ticket. That was the suspension notice. There is no fine associated to a three day suspension for a warning on a roadside for a full G driver over the age of 21. The $180 is the licence reinstatement fee to get a licence back after a suspension is served.
That's not a ticket. That was the suspension notice. There is no fine associated to a three day suspension for a warning on a roadside for a full G driver over the age of 21.
The $180 is the licence reinstatement fee to get a licence back after a suspension is served.
What Decatur said... There is NO 5-year suspension for what you got. You should be able to pay the $180 and get your license back. From http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/safety ... ving.shtml : In Ontario and the rest of Canada, the maximum legal BAC for fully licensed drivers is 80 milligrams of alcohol in 100 millilitres of blood (0.08). Driving with BAC over 0.08 is a criminal offence. Warn range. In Ontario, your BAC does not have to be over the 0.08 legal limit to result in serious consequences. If you register a BAC from 0.05 to 0.08 (commonly referred to as the warn range), you will face provincial administrative penalties. If your BAC tests in the Warn Range (0.05 - 0.08): First time - 3-day roadside licence suspension (cannot be appealed) + $180 administrative monetary penalty Second time (within 5 years) - 7-day roadside licence suspension (cannot be appealed) + Mandatory alcohol education program + $180 administrative monetary penalty Third and subsequent times (within 5 years) - 30-day roadside licence suspension (cannot be appealed) + Mandatory alcohol treatment program + Six-month ignition interlock + $180 administrative monetary penalty
What Decatur said... There is NO 5-year suspension for what you got. You should be able to pay the $180 and get your license back.
In Ontario and the rest of Canada, the maximum legal BAC for fully licensed drivers is 80 milligrams of alcohol in 100 millilitres of blood (0.08). Driving with BAC over 0.08 is a criminal offence.
Warn range. In Ontario, your BAC does not have to be over the 0.08 legal limit to result in serious consequences. If you register a BAC from 0.05 to 0.08 (commonly referred to as the warn range), you will face provincial administrative penalties.
If your BAC tests in the Warn Range (0.05 - 0.08):
First time - 3-day roadside licence suspension (cannot be appealed) + $180 administrative monetary penalty
Second time (within 5 years) - 7-day roadside licence suspension (cannot be appealed) + Mandatory alcohol education program + $180 administrative monetary penalty
Third and subsequent times (within 5 years) - 30-day roadside licence suspension (cannot be appealed) + Mandatory alcohol treatment program + Six-month ignition interlock + $180 administrative monetary penalty
I can't lie, it's exactly what I'm praying for. I made a stupid mistake. More than the money, I would hate being on probation for 5-years and have it on my record. Then you're right. It must have been a suspension notice. The official fine (which is indeed the reinstatement fee) and paper work were supposed to arrive by mail, after my temporary was issued. Service Ontario was clear in the process: Police send the paper work to MTO... MTO charges me and sends me documentation by mail... I go back to Service Ontario, pay the reinstatement fee, new plastic is issued. In today's world of electronics, I can't understand how it never got into the system. In any case, let's see what MTO says next week. I can't see them charging me without any official police paper work. Something like this, especially with the 5-yr probation, can't just be applied as such. I'm not a legal expert, but MTO can't have the authority to charge me without official paper work by the police on the charges of the incident. A copy or a photocopy of a notice can't be the only thing they base themselves on, right? Unless, like jsherk said, they track down the cop and have him reissue the charges.
jsherk wrote:
Well again if the officer did not file the ticket with the court within 7 days, then there is no ticket any more.
I suppose if MTO chases down the officer, the officer could re-issue a new ticket. You basically want to hope they don't find officer!
I can't lie, it's exactly what I'm praying for. I made a stupid mistake. More than the money, I would hate being on probation for 5-years and have it on my record.
Decatur wrote:
That's not a ticket. That was the suspension notice. There is no fine associated to a three day suspension for a warning on a roadside for a full G driver over the age of 21.
The $180 is the licence reinstatement fee to get a licence back after a suspension is served.
Then you're right. It must have been a suspension notice. The official fine (which is indeed the reinstatement fee) and paper work were supposed to arrive by mail, after my temporary was issued. Service Ontario was clear in the process: Police send the paper work to MTO... MTO charges me and sends me documentation by mail... I go back to Service Ontario, pay the reinstatement fee, new plastic is issued.
In today's world of electronics, I can't understand how it never got into the system. In any case, let's see what MTO says next week. I can't see them charging me without any official police paper work. Something like this, especially with the 5-yr probation, can't just be applied as such. I'm not a legal expert, but MTO can't have the authority to charge me without official paper work by the police on the charges of the incident. A copy or a photocopy of a notice can't be the only thing they base themselves on, right? Unless, like jsherk said, they track down the cop and have him reissue the charges.
And there is no 5 year probation! Three day suspensions and others issued at roadside are usually directly entered into the MTO system by the police records personnel. If that wasn't done, the suspension is still valid, yet Mto isn't able to track it and apply the reinstatement fee because they have no record exists in their system that your licence was suspended. Best case is you don't have to pay the reinstatement fee. Worst case is that you just made MTO aware of a clerical error and you will have to dish out $180 and have the suspension listed on your driving record.
And there is no 5 year probation!
Three day suspensions and others issued at roadside are usually directly entered into the MTO system by the police records personnel.
If that wasn't done, the suspension is still valid, yet Mto isn't able to track it and apply the reinstatement fee because they have no record exists in their system that your licence was suspended.
Best case is you don't have to pay the reinstatement fee. Worst case is that you just made MTO aware of a clerical error and you will have to dish out $180 and have the suspension listed on your driving record.
Reading the penalties, there is a 5 year period where if you get caught again then the penalty goes up for the second and thirid occurences. But as a side note, I believe this is an ADMINISTRATIVE penalty which means it will not show up on your driving record and will not affect your insurance.
Reading the penalties, there is a 5 year period where if you get caught again then the penalty goes up for the second and thirid occurences.
But as a side note, I believe this is an ADMINISTRATIVE penalty which means it will not show up on your driving record and will not affect your insurance.
That's certainly not probation. It's just an escalating sanction. They will show up on the records that police see. Otherwise they wouldnt know whether to issue the three day, seven day or 30 day. Correct, the adls suspensions for roadside warning will not affect you insurance rates.
That's certainly not probation. It's just an escalating sanction.
They will show up on the records that police see. Otherwise they wouldnt know whether to issue the three day, seven day or 30 day.
Correct, the adls suspensions for roadside warning will not affect you insurance rates.
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