Cop knocking on your door

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diehard
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Cop knocking on your door

Unread post by diehard on

Can you politely refuse to speak with them and decline to answer any of their questions?
What about simply not answering the door?

Is this true?

Note: there is no probable cause and no crime going on.
Police Coming to Your Door: Any person, including a police officer, has your implied consent to walk onto your property for the purpose of communicating to you at your front door. ....

There is also no obligation to answer the door when the police come knocking.
There is no obligation to speak to the police at your door, and you can end any conversation with them whenever you choose.


tdottopcop
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Unread post by tdottopcop on

Do you have to answer the door? No, unless you're on conditions to do so (house arrest for example).

But why bother creating such a hassle?

I'd like to firstly point out that you do NOT know if they have 'reasonable cause' and you do NOT know if there have been any criminal incidents in the area.

The officer might be canvassing to see if you've noticed a missing child from the area. Or perhaps a break and enter in the area just occurred and he's checking to ensure all is in order at your residence. Maybe you or your wife lost your wallet with id, cash and credit cards and he's there to return it. Maybe he's there to inform you of a death in your family.

But bullocks to all that right?

Or maybe he's there to make sure you're not wearing your tin foil hat so that the government can continue to absorb your thoughts and use it against you- who knows.
No, I am not the chief of Toronto Police.
No, I do not work for Toronto Police...
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Stanton
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Unread post by Stanton on

diehard wrote:Can you politely refuse to speak with them and decline to answer any of their questions?
Yes. While there are certain acts/laws that may require you to identify yourself (i.e. trespassing, driving a motor vehicle), you're not required to answer any questions.
diehard wrote:What about simply not answering the door?
Yes.

Both answers are made with the assumption that police are not investigating a crime in progress or have any other exigent circumstances to force entry and/or make contact.
I’d personally suggest at least answering the door, since police may be at your door for a different reason then you think.


diehard
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Unread post by diehard on

Stanton wrote:
diehard wrote:Can you politely refuse to speak with them and decline to answer any of their questions?
I’d personally suggest at least answering the door, since police may be at your door for a different reason then you think.
What if they want to give the owner of a vehicle who resides in the address a ticket for a traffic offense that occurred days ago?
For example, cops didn't witness the offence, a witness called the cops and informed license plate.

Can you still politely refuse to decline their questions?


Stanton
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Unread post by Stanton on

diehard wrote:What if they want to give the owner of a vehicle who resides in the address a ticket for a traffic offense that occurred days ago?
For example, cops didn't witness the offence, a witness called the cops and informed license plate.

Can you still politely refuse to decline their questions?
Yes, you can still refuse to answer questions but I wouldn't recommend avoiding service. Avoiding service doesn't make the charge go away and can actually make matters worse. If police have made reasonable attempts to serve you, they can request a warrant for you arrest. If arrested on the warrant, you could be held in custody for Court.


diehard
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Unread post by diehard on

Stanton wrote:
diehard wrote:What if they want to give the owner of a vehicle who resides in the address a ticket for a traffic offense that occurred days ago?
For example, cops didn't witness the offence, a witness called the cops and informed license plate.

Can you still politely refuse to decline their questions?
Yes, you can still refuse to answer questions but I wouldn't recommend avoiding service. Avoiding service doesn't make the charge go away and can actually make matters worse. If police have made reasonable attempts to serve you, they can request a warrant for you arrest. If arrested on the warrant, you could be held in custody for Court.
What if no one answers the door? Does it still constitute a reasonable attempt?

Why can't police simply mail the the ticket to owner of vehicle? Ex. 175(19)


ttlt_11
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Unread post by ttlt_11 on

How would they have evidence that it is you driving? anyone could be driving the car, same goes for parking tickets, it just gets sent(or billed) to the owner. If they have no reasonable evidence (ie. photos) I'd say anyone could have a good defence.


diehard
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Unread post by diehard on

ttlt_11 wrote:How would they have evidence that it is you driving? anyone could be driving the car, same goes for parking tickets, it just gets sent(or billed) to the owner. If they have no reasonable evidence (ie. photos) I'd say anyone could have a good defence.
For example, lets say the bus driver wrote down the license plate. The next day the cops want to hand the ticket to the driver of the car, so they visit the address. Can they give the ticket to the owner and give him the demerit points?

175(11) instead of 175(19)


swontleo
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Unread post by swontleo on

diehard wrote:
ttlt_11 wrote:How would they have evidence that it is you driving? anyone could be driving the car, same goes for parking tickets, it just gets sent(or billed) to the owner. If they have no reasonable evidence (ie. photos) I'd say anyone could have a good defence.
For example, lets say the bus driver wrote down the license plate. The next day the cops want to hand the ticket to the driver of the car, so they visit the address. Can they give the ticket to the owner and give him the demerit points?

175(11) instead of 175(19)
In this situation it would be an owner offence because they wouldn't be able to prove who was driving. So there are no demerit points tied to it, just the $490 fine. They have 30 to issue part 1, but if they don't they will just give you a summons. It's not going to just go away if you avoid it.

I would just like to add in your first post you said there are not reasonable grounds, if the officer is there to serve the offence notice there are grounds for him to be there.


diehard
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Unread post by diehard on

swontleo wrote:
diehard wrote:
ttlt_11 wrote:How would they have evidence that it is you driving? anyone could be driving the car, same goes for parking tickets, it just gets sent(or billed) to the owner. If they have no reasonable evidence (ie. photos) I'd say anyone could have a good defence.
For example, lets say the bus driver wrote down the license plate. The next day the cops want to hand the ticket to the driver of the car, so they visit the address. Can they give the ticket to the owner and give him the demerit points?

175(11) instead of 175(19)
In this situation it would be an owner offence because they wouldn't be able to prove who was driving. So there are no demerit points tied to it, just the $490 fine. They have 30 to issue part 1, but if they don't they will just give you a summons. It's not going to just go away if you avoid it.

I would just like to add in your first post you said there are not reasonable grounds, if the officer is there to serve the offence notice there are grounds for him to be there.
I see.

But could cop insist in asking who was driving that day and try to give a 175(11) ticket to the owner of the vehicle even though he has no evidence who was driving, only the bus driver's testimony?

Why are they visiting the address? Why can't they simply mail the ticket to the owner?

What is a summons in this context?


Stanton
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Unread post by Stanton on

A summons is simply a document that compels you to attend Court. It has no set fine, so unlike a regular ticket you can’t simply plead guilty and pay your fine by mail, you must attend Court. Summonses provide police with a longer period of time to serve an accused and also provide the option to seek higher fines on more serious offences.

Police have the option of serving the ticket personally or by mail. Different officers/services may prefer different methods. Perhaps they do wish to investigate the complaint personally. If you’re asked questions which you don’t want to answer, just politely refuse to do so.


diehard
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Unread post by diehard on

What about this case here?

http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/artic ... ficer?bn=1

Cops didn't see the driver committing an infraction, went to his residence and "invited" the driver to go the police station.

There was no evidence, only a 911 call.

Could the driver have respectfully declined to answer their questions?
What if no one had answered the door? Could the cops kick in?

What if the cops had showed up at the residence 4 or 5 days later?


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Decatur
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Unread post by Decatur on

He wasn't "invited" to the police station he was arrested. It also appears that this case is still before the courts so I won't comment further.


Stanton
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Unread post by Stanton on

Just to clarify further, the example your citing is a Criminal matter, not Highway Traffic Act.

Quite likely a 9-1-1 call would not be sufficient to arrest someone for impaired driving, but it does give police reason to investigate the matter. Once they spoke with the driver and formed grounds to believe he was impaired, they made a demand which legally compels him to provide a breath sample. And as Decatur said, it's not an invitation, he was under arrest.

In regards to police having grounds to kick in the door, etc., it would be very case specific and dependent on how well the police can articulate their grounds. It's very unlikely police would be investigating an impaired driver several days after the fact, since without a breath/blood/urine sample it becomes very difficult to show how someone was impaired.

Again though, kind of apples to orange comparison for a straight HTA matter.






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